My maiden DART voyage

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

Given that the loadings would be heaviest from points north of Dun Laoghaire, I'd think that was quite appropriate.

In isolation yes, I'd agree with you, but my point is that it's hard to justify 8 cars on that service when they can only find four cars for a service which is going to take a heavy load and running a longer distance with less relief trains around it on the route.

For example, a 6 car on the DL - Howth and a 6 car on the Bray to Malahide would be a better use of stock than the current arrangement, but like you say the proper solution would involve adding a couple of carriages, but if they won't do that then people are going to point towards the fact that rolling stock is not being distributed properly.

My bottom line in this regard is whether people are being left behind by that train? If they are then it has to be strengthened as that's simply not good enough given the frequency of services.

Some people are being left behind, a problem that generally starts at Tara Street, Connolly and Clontarf Road. This has happened less lately as some users are now taking the earlier train to Howth Junction and changing there, since quite a few people get off the Malahide train at Raheny,

Come Howth Junction, the train is pretty crowded again (lots of standing but not crush loaded) as a large amount of people get on, since they are now taking that option as they know they may not be able to get on the Malahide, which means it's easier to get on than it used to be even if not certain.

When this train was a six car it was very full and pretty tight, but as a four car it's literally 5-6 people having to get out at every single stop from Tara Street to Raheny at a doorway to allow people to alight. and peoples arms digging into each other etc and that is even with at least 50-60 people going out their way to avoid it.

The fact that so many people now get on at Howth Junction whereas before it wasn't that many when it was a six car tells you just how much it needs more than four cars. The fact is even with a good percentage of people taking measures to avoid it and changing at Howth Junction, that used to take it, it's still vastly overcrowded.

I have lodged a complaint about it but when complained about before I was told it is because they cannot justify the 18:30 Malahide to Greystones to be more than four cars, yet there are eight cars, with far less passengers, going around after that southbound.

end of the road

Vic_08 wrote: »

There are 5 trains to Malahide in that timescale just 3 happen not to be DARTS, stop selectively ignoring the northern commuter service. You are well aware that it is the mix of both that are used to provide capacity for the Malahide line stations not DART alone.

but the northern commuters don't serve his stop. so his point is valid

end of the road

Vic_08 wrote: »

It couldn't get away with a six because it is the wrong type of unit, 4 or 8 are the options and because it then forms the 08.00 from Greystones one of the busiest services in the entire schedule it needs to be 8. Your journey is not the only one that capacity needs to be balanced for and the fact is that reducing cars was necessary for cost reduction due to falling revenues and subvention.

IMO Irish Rail should stop trying to brush off these issues and be honest with their paying passengers that they are compromising capacity on certain services due to their current financial situation.

i agree. honesty is the key

Thargor

More info on the DART with the terrified passengers please! Is there another thread somewhere?

LXFlyer

Thargor wrote: »

More info on the DART with the terrified passengers please! Is there another thread somewhere?

A DART skipped several stops recently (due to late running it was apparently decided to run non-stop for a section to get back on schedule).

However, either there was no PA announcement or the PA announcement was not audible, and people were thinking that the driver had collapsed and that the train was running away with itself, and were apparently terrified.

This is beside the fact that all trains do have automatic protection systems that will apply the brakes immediately if the driver does not respond to on-track signalling equipment.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

This is beside the fact that all trains do have automatic protection systems that will apply the brakes immediately if the driver does not respond to on-track signalling equipment.

Which in fairness 99% people wouldn't know.

Frankly no scheduled service should ever just change like this and randomly skip stops.

And certainly it is inexcusable (and potentially dangerous) not to inform passengers (and waiting on platforms) constantly over intercom and via screens both on the trains and platforms.

Really it is one of the most unprofessional and horrible things I've ever heard from IR. No one people think that the DART and IR are so unreliable.

TheBandicoot

Only the Dart has that, on other lines and train types as long as driver is using the vigilance device(a pedal that needs to be released periodically, then held down)he can go as fast as he likes and pass all red signals, CAWS doesn't have an intervention component.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Which in fairness 99% people wouldn't know.

Frankly no scheduled service should ever just change like this and randomly skip stops.

And certainly it is inexcusable (and potentially dangerous) not to inform passengers (and waiting on platforms) constantly over intercom and via screens both on the trains and platforms.

Really it is one of the most unprofessional and horrible things I've ever heard from IR. No one people think that the DART and IR are so unreliable.

in fairness trains in the UK do this all the time when running late and they can't be got back on track without canceling and effecting huge amounts of people.

murphaph

lxflyer wrote: »

This is beside the fact that all trains do have automatic protection systems that will apply the brakes immediately if the driver does not respond to on-track signalling equipment.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. I know that the DART and most modern trains have such fail safes, but if my morning S Bahn in Berlin suddenly skipped a load of stations and no announcement was made I'd still be concerned for my safety. Most people have no idea about such safety system and would quite rightly be absolutely terrified. There is absolutely no defence for failing to make such an important announcement and for ensuring that it is heard.

If the driver made the announcement and nobody left the train, then that should set off his alarm bells that perhaps the PA system isn't working....that's if he bothered to make the announcement, which I doubt.

LXFlyer

murphaph wrote: »

That's a ridiculous thing to say. I know that the DART and most modern trains have such fail safes, but if my morning S Bahn in Berlin suddenly skipped a load of stations and no announcement was made I'd still be concerned for my safety. Most people have no idea about such safety system and would quite rightly be absolutely terrified. There is absolutely no defence for failing to make such an important announcement and for ensuring that it is heard.

If the driver made the announcement and nobody left the train, then that should set off his alarm bells that perhaps the PA system isn't working....that's if he bothered to make the announcement, which I doubt.

Hang on - stop shooting the messenger.

I was only answering the question about what happened, and I made the observation that the failsafe system exists, which as you say many people wouldn't know about.

I didn't make any comment on the lack of announcements, I just merely stated what had been reported. Of course a clear announcement ought to be made - it's inexcusable when it isn't.

Please don't read things into my posts that I didn't say - all I was doing was answering the simple question of what happened, and adding the context of ATP.

Nothing else - I certainly don't want my post to be seen as in any way condoning passengers not being informed, which clearly they ought to be.

murphaph

Sorry, read it as a defence of their actions.

Colonial

€100 a month just getting to and from work is a rip off and this is using the leap twice a day for normal working hours. Its actually EVEN IN THIS RIP OF COUNTRY cheaper to drive to work where motoring costs are high! Public transport should never be more expensive than driving.

Colonial

bk wrote: »

Which in fairness 99% people wouldn't know.

Frankly no scheduled service should ever just change like this and randomly skip stops.

And certainly it is inexcusable (and potentially dangerous) not to inform passengers (and waiting on platforms) constantly over intercom and via screens both on the trains and platforms.

Really it is one of the most unprofessional and horrible things I've ever heard from IR. No one people think that the DART and IR are so unreliable.

In relation to reliability, the 8:45 train has been up to 15 minutes late each evening this week. The real time information online did not update this this evening so I had to sprint there making it in time within 2 mins only to find out its 12 mins late.... Rubbish expensive service.

devnull

Colonial wrote: »

In relation to reliability, the 8:45 train has been up to 15 minutes late each evening this week. The real time information online did not update this this evening so I had to sprint there making it in time within 2 mins only to find out its 12 mins late.... Rubbish expensive service.

Was there an announcement?

Since the gentleman from Irish Rail who replied to the OP via email claims that an announcement should be made if a train is more than 5 minutes late.

Never seen it happen myself though and the train I normally get when on earlies at work is always at least 5, normally 10 minutes down in the evenings.

Carawaystick

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It would run non stop if it's out of place due to delays etc. Either way passengers should be informed of this. I was on one once and an announcement was made then. one thing though that it can be easy to miss any announcements if they have music blaring on their head phones but you don't expect your train to run non stop.

But Mr Slowey of Irish Rails customer care section stated that

Mr Slowey wrote:

most passengers would know where the train destination was and that DART services serve all stations in between

Unless Mr Mór made that bit up, which I doubt

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

A mealy mouthed, blame avoiding "apology" is not an apology by proper customer service standards. And there's plenty of non-UK firms we can compare those to.

What would have been your accepted apology?

Hilly Bill

Colonial wrote: »

€100 a month just getting to and from work is a rip off and this is using the leap twice a day for normal working hours. Its actually EVEN IN THIS RIP OF COUNTRY cheaper to drive to work where motoring costs are high! Public transport should never be more expensive than driving.

Did you have a different price the first time you posted that? I'm glad that it's getting cheaper for you

Hilly Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

But Mr Slowey of Irish Rails customer care section stated that


Unless Mr Mór made that bit up, which I doubt

Made up which bit ? The 2 posts you commented on are not related. I've already posted my view on that response.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What would have been your accepted apology?

One that actually, you know, apologised for what happened rather than the diatribe that was sent in its place.

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

One that actually, you know, apologised for what happened rather than the diatribe that was sent in its place.

That's what was given.

may06

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That's what was given.

Where exactly?

Hilly Bill

may06 wrote: »

Where exactly?

Seriously?

may06

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Seriously?

Yeah..where?

Grandeeod

Here's the text of the email with the "Sorry" word highlighted.

Dear Mr Mor,

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have checked the running of the DART concerned, 16.00hrs from Howth, for the date in question and I am sorry for the delay experienced.

This train operated 7 minutes late through platform 6 in Connolly Station and this delay was caused by the late incoming service from Belfast which itself had been delayed due to a trespasser on the track. The electronic signage would normally scroll through the next three departures operating via the specific platform and if a service is behind schedule the system will show the estimated number of minutes that the train will arrive at the platform. If a train is anticipated to be more than 5 minutes late, an announcement should be made from Traffic Control and I am sorry if this did not happen. There were no reported issues with the platform signage at DART stations on the 20th September.

I do not know who the member of staff was onboard the train as we would not have staff rostered to travel on DART's outside of Revenue Protection staff.

Train headboards would show the destination in Irish at least half the time and would alternate with the English regularly but I would suggest that most passengers would know where the train destination was and that DART services serve all stations in between.

I will forward your feedback to our Traffic Control for their information.

Regards
Paul Slowey

Customer Care, Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail, Connolly Station, Dublin 1."

end of the road

maybe i'm missing something but bar that email being a tad technical i can't see what was the problem with what was written. anyone?

Carawaystick

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Made up which bit ? The 2 posts you commented on are not related. I've already posted my view on that response.

You said Darts would run non stop.
The customer service lad at IÉ said they don't

These two are inconsistent and either you are wrong, the IÉ lad is wrong or mr Mór fabricated the response and you and IÉ lad are both right

I'm being sarcastic about the op making stuff up, by the way.

Hilly Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

You said Darts would run non stop.
The customer service lad at IÉ said they don't

These two are inconsistent and either you are wrong, the IÉ lad is wrong or mr Mór fabricated the response and you and IÉ lad are both right

I'm being sarcastic about the op making stuff up, by the way.

Darts normally do stop at every stop . Nobody said that they dont skip a few stops the odd occasion for operational reasons.
This is getting a tad petty now to be honest. Time to move on i think.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

maybe i'm missing something but bar that email being a tad technical i can't see what was the problem with what was written. anyone?

It is like IE are telling the OP that they don't believe what they experienced by putting things like

"If a train is anticipated to be more than 5 minutes late, an announcement should be made from Traffic Control and I am sorry if this did not happen."

The IF should not be used as the OP has reported that it did not happen.

"There were no reported issues with the platform signage at DART stations on the 20th September."

OP was reporting that there was issues with signs at dart stations yet they claim there were no reported issues.

Hilly Bill

Some people will never be happy regardless of the response. It reads as them not having any reports of any issue with the displays but apologies if there is and will send the feedback to control for them to look at it and get it sorted. It's basically taking the op at his word.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is like IE are telling the OP that they don't believe what they experienced by putting things like

"If a train is anticipated to be more than 5 minutes late, an announcement should be made from Traffic Control and I am sorry if this did not happen."
The IF should not be used as the OP has reported that it did not happen.

but that could be taken just as it is word for word. he's informing the OP that if its known a train is going to be more then 5 minutes late then an anouncement should be made. he says sorry if it didn't happen rather then sorry that it didn't happen, because maybe he has got only 1 or 2 emails claiming it to be the case that it didn't happen but nothing from traffic control so needs to check it out so says if just to be on the safe side. the customer service person doesn't know at that moment whether the anouncements did or didn't happen, they should, but sounds like they didn't. no doubt there was a cockup. but really, he got an apology for it, what more can be done.

foggy_lad wrote: »

"There were no reported issues with the platform signage at DART stations on the 20th September."
OP was reporting that there was issues with signs at dart stations yet they claim there were no reported issues.

sounds a tad stupid when reading it like that yes, but maybe he meant apart from that email there were no other reports.