My maiden DART voyage

Grandeeod

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It would run non stop if it's out of place due to delays etc. Either way passengers should be informed of this. I was on one once and an announcement was made then. one thing though that it can be easy to miss any announcements if they have music blaring on their head phones but you don't expect your train to run non stop.

What is it with you and the head phone argument. Honestly, it sounds similar to the OPs response from IE. Grab a bone and run with it.

monument

Grandeeod wrote: »

What is it with you and the head phone argument. Honestly, it sounds similar to the OPs response from IE. Grab a bone and run with it.

Last warning -- cut it out.

Mainly talking about you going over the top by adding in "Grab a bone and run with it" and it also looks like you're implying the poster is IR staff -- so on both fronts, cut it out.

All also in context of your recent postings and warnings.

-- moderator

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

What is it with you and the head phone argument. Honestly, it sounds similar to the OPs response from IE. Grab a bone and run with it.

If you have music playing on your headphones the chances are that you will not hear any announcements.

Hilly Bill

irishgrover wrote: »

I guess there is no certainty on that....but to be honest the rest of the responses are really shocking...made up broadly of...
Well this should happen...... (regardless of what actually did happen)
AND
Most passengers would know where they are going....

It those types of answers are deemed acceptable by anyone then it's a pretty sad indictment of minimal expected service standards..

The only part of the response i wouldnt have included would have been the Most passengers bit as people new to the dart wouldnt know where Bray or Greystones was in relation to their destination and wouldnt know if Greystones is only the next stop after Bray.

may06

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If you have music playing on your headphones the chances are that you will not hear any announcements.

How do you propose a deaf person manages then, if inadequate information or no up to date information is displayed on the notice boards?

Padraig Mor

Hilly Bill wrote: »

you were given an apology for the displays and pass on your feedback to the relevant dept what more do you need? nobody including the e_mail you received suggests that you made it up.

Read it again. There was no apology for the displays. No apology for the Gaeilge - only train boards. No apology for the behaviour of the staff member. Only an apology for the lack of an announcement (the least of the complaints, and one which would have been irrelevant if the displays worked). My interpretation of their response is that they have not acknowledged the fact of what myself and others experienced, thus implicitly suggesting that it did not happen. You may disagree with this interpretation - fair enough.

Let there be no doubt here - my story pales in comparison to some of the others recounted on this thread. My delay was minor, although I had no idea of how long it would be at the time. My experience is just one of many in this thread and others which suggest that standards are pretty ****ing low in Irish Rail and that there is little appetite for improvement in the company at all levels, and little sense of providing a public service among staff.

Decuc500

devnull wrote: »

I was on a DART train a few weeks back which was running late and noticed that the display at Connolly where I was waiting about 10 seconds before the train started to arrive at the station changed to "Non stop to Howth Hunction then all stations to Malahide"

It was odd since there were no announcements on the platform, nothing on the train and there were a lot of confused people when we went pasts a huge number of stops, especially as the PIS was reading the stops out we were missing out just before we reached them.

Lots of very confused people got out at Howth Junction and I don't know why nothing was said. Oddly though when we got to Howth Junction there was a manual announcement saying it will now serve all stops to Malahide?

Also in that case,, what kind of mechanical fault would need a train out of service quickly but runs full speed with passengers on? Seems a little odd?

This morning there were delays because of the usual points failure and after waiting 25 minutes on the platform a half empty dart came through the station without stopping. The reasoning from the grinning and slightly smug looking member of staff I asked was that it was delayed and had to make up time.

I can't understand the reasoning behind this. It's not as if the darts behind it can go faster now that the one ahead isn't stopping. Surely better to get people in to work on the first available dart?

The next train to come along was a 4 carriage dart which filled up pretty quickly due to stranded passengers. Rush hour with Irish Rail! Always fun.

cython

Decuc500 wrote: »

This morning there were delays because of the usual points failure and after waiting 25 minutes on the platform a half empty dart came through the station without stopping. The reasoning from the grinning and slightly smug looking member of staff I asked was that it was delayed and had to make up time.

I can't understand the reasoning behind this. It's not as if the darts behind it can go faster now that the one ahead isn't stopping. Surely better to get people in to work on the first available dart?

The next train to come along was a 4 carriage dart which filled up pretty quickly due to stranded passengers. Rush hour with Irish Rail! Always fun.

I sometimes think that Irish Rail are more concerned with massaging the figures they publish on their reliability and punctuality posters than actually providing the service that the passengers have paid for. In the above scenario, the service still probably technically operated (never mind that it probably skipped half its stops, it still ran!), and they probably pulled it closer to being within the frankly ridiculous margin that they use to class a service as being on time/punctual (10 mins on non-DART commuter services?! FFS the Maynooth line journeys are supposed to be < 1hour end to end, so this is more than a 16% margin for error!)

Someone may try to correct this as being a focus on getting stock into their scheduled placements, with a view to minimising later disruption, but that's utter tripe in most cases, since there's hours of off peak time during which this could be recovered.

noodler

TheBandicoot wrote: »

https://twitter.com/laurenceob/status/516646205850673153
https://twitter.com/laurenceob/status/516643345293402113

Decuc500 wrote: »

This morning there were delays because of the usual points failure and after waiting 25 minutes on the platform a half empty dart came through the station without stopping. The reasoning from the grinning and slightly smug looking member of staff I asked was that it was delayed and had to make up time.

+1,000

A barely half-filled DART came screaming through Raheny Station this morning without stopping despite Raheny platform being crowded.

What happened next echoed your experience, the next DART was absolutely crushing by the time we got to Killester.

Disgraceful and stupid logic not to stop.

Padraig Mor

cython wrote: »

I sometimes think that Irish Rail are more concerned with massaging the figures they publish on their reliability and punctuality posters than actually providing the service that the passengers have paid for..

Y'know this is exactly what I thought of with my experience, but didn't put it up lest I accused of being a conspiracy theorist. Did the 'ghost train' disappear from the signage and online tracking to try and 'disappear' the delay from the records?!

devnull

Some of the formations are decidedly iffy anyway.

From Connolly Northbound you have the following during the week
17:28 - Howth 6-8 Car
17:39 - Howth 8 Car
17:47 - Howth 6-8 Car
17:54 - Malahide - 4 Car

Can anyone explain to me why you have three Howth trains within a short space of time running with six to eight cars that are not that heavily loaded followed by a four car to Malahide that is like Sardines?

It doesn't make sense. There is a very strong argument for taking two cars away from one of those services and strengthening the Malahide

Decuc500

devnull wrote: »

Some of the formations are decidedly iffy anyway.

From Connolly Northbound you have the following during the week
17:28 - Howth 6-8 Car
17:39 - Howth 8 Car
17:47 - Howth 6-8 Car
17:54 - Malahide - 4 Car

Can anyone explain to me why you have three Howth trains within a short space of time running with six to eight cars that are not that heavily loaded followed by a four car to Malahide that is like Sardines?

It doesn't make sense. There is a very strong argument for taking two cars away from one of those services and strengthening the Malahide

I'm not sure if those Howth darts are 6-8 carriages. The 17:47 certainly isn't. I got the 18:04 from Pearse to Howth this evening and it was 4 carriages and some people couldn't get on at Tara Street. It was one of the most uncomfortable dart journeys I've had in some time.

Meanwhile half the fleet stands idle at Clontarf Road depot.

They are obviously not monitoring these trains for capacity issues. After this mornings fiasco and the evening rush hour 'cost saving' short trains I'm fed up with this company.

Rashers72

Decuc500 wrote: »

Meanwhile half the fleet stands idle at Clontarf Road depot.
They are obviously not monitoring these trains for capacity issues. After this mornings fiasco and the evening rush hour 'cost saving' short trains I'm fed up with this company.

There has a been a significant increase in tagging of DARTs in recents weeks and month (not to mention Butt bridge, and all over the roof of Tara st station). The DARTS are all stored with the graffiti facing away from passing trains, but if you look closely they are extensively covered. There seems to be a long delay in cleaning them. We spend a lot of time on Northern suburban trains waiting alongside Fairview depot, due to increasing congestion at Connolly, but that's another story!!

Hilly Bill

may06 wrote: »

How do you propose a deaf person manages then, if inadequate information or no up to date information is displayed on the notice boards?

They are usually clued up on their trains and would know if its not normal and would ask or like most would get the next one that goes to where they want to go.
Its a good point though when a train will go non stop that they may not hear the announcement.

Hilly Bill

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Read it again. There was no apology for the displays. No apology for the Gaeilge - only train boards. No apology for the behaviour of the staff member. Only an apology for the lack of an announcement (the least of the complaints, and one which would have been irrelevant if the displays worked). My interpretation of their response is that they have not acknowledged the fact of what myself and others experienced, thus implicitly suggesting that it did not happen. You may disagree with this interpretation - fair enough.

Let there be no doubt here - my story pales in comparison to some of the others recounted on this thread. My delay was minor, although I had no idea of how long it would be at the time. My experience is just one of many in this thread and others which suggest that standards are pretty ****ing low in Irish Rail and that there is little appetite for improvement in the company at all levels, and little sense of providing a public service among staff.

You got an apology in the e-mail. Its far from suggesting that it didnt happen.

devnull

Decuc500 wrote: »

I'm not sure if those Howth darts are 6-8 carriages. The 17:47 certainly isn't. I got the 18:04 from Pearse to Howth this evening and it was 4 carriages and some people couldn't get on at Tara Street. It was one of the most uncomfortable dart journeys I've had in some time.

At least two of those are reguarly 6-8 cars, I can't remember which ones but I thought they all were.

The 17:54 Malahide you'd say should always be an eight car out of all of those trains since there are three Howths within 20 minutes and then the first Malahide for half an hour is only a four car? That's ridiculous, especially when it's bang slap in the middle of peak and contains a large number of people that leave work at 5.

The 17.47 Howth normally has a lot of Malahide bound passengers on it that change at Howth Junction to avoid the 17.54 that they may not be able to get on, so they catch it further up the line - It's always very noticeable that whenever I'm on the 17.54 at Howth Junction a huge amount of people get on, vastly more than I see on any other service, no chance they'd all be able to get on the Malahide train initally.

Decuc500

devnull wrote: »

At least two of those are reguarly 6-8 cars, I can't remember which ones but I thought they all were.

The 17:54 Malahide you'd say should always be an eight car out of all of those trains since there are three Howths within 20 minutes and then the first Malahide for half an hour is only a four car? That's ridiculous, especially when it's bang slap in the middle of peak and contains a large number of people that leave work at 5.

The 17.47 Howth normally has a lot of Malahide bound passengers on it that change at Howth Junction to avoid the 17.54 that they may not be able to get on, so they catch it further up the line - It's always very noticeable that whenever I'm on the 17.54 at Howth Junction a huge amount of people get on, vastly more than I see on any other service, no chance they'd all be able to get on the Malahide train initally.

That's crazy. And when they bother to respond on Twitter they say all services are continually monitored for capacity issues. They quite obviously aren't.

How much money would they lose by increasing even 2 northbound darts to 6 or 8 carriages in evening rush hour? Sure not a lot. They make two journeys up and down the line then can be taken out of service. It's rush hour ffs.

devnull

Morning seems to be fine, but that 17.54 to Malahide is what nightmares are made of, it's far busier than the 17.24 which is usually 6 cars but has been 8 in the past the odd time as well.

I just don't see the reason for running three trains in 20 minutes on one branch and make them a decent length, whilst at the same time the first train on the other branch four coaches.

There either needs to be one of those Howth's converting to Malahide or a change in formation.

The funny thing is, the first train of the day on the Malahide branch at 6.20 something is always an eight car when it could get away with a six, the morning seems to be fine but it's the evening where the problems seem to be.

LXFlyer

While I've no idea why that Malahide train is a four piece set (and it seems rather odd to me), I think in terms of context that it should be pointed out that there are 8 piece diesels to Clongriffin, Portmarnock and Malahide at 17:35 and 18:02 out of Connolly too, which were left out of the list.

In other words there are other trains - that's not the only one.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

While I've no idea why that Malahide train is a four piece set (and it seems rather odd to me), I think in terms of context that it should be pointed out that there are 8 piece diesels to Clongriffin, Portmarnock and Malahide at 17:35 and 18:02 out of Connolly too, which were left out of the list.

In other words there are other trains - that's not the only one.

There are no other trains if you get on, like myself, at a station where the Diesels do not stop and there are also many people who would be in the same situation that would use Clontarf Road (bearing in mind it's right next to a huge business park) or any other station after Connolly but before the split.

Either way it's unacceptable for three Darts in a row to serve one branch and then eventually when you do have a dart for another branch, for it to be four car. It used to be at least a six car but since the schools have gone back it has always been a four car.

LXFlyer

As I said I don't know why it is only a four piece and I agree it would strike me as inadequate.

But I imagine that the reason there are three DARTs in a row to Howth is precisely because of the two diesel services on the Northern line. I realise that's no help to you, but I suspect that would be the reason. The problem is that the 17:35 doesn't serve Howth Junction which would facilitate transfers. They're trying to keep everyone happy but not really managing it.

Add to that the inflexible layout at Malahide (lack of a direct reversible siding), which we can blame local NIMBY residents who objected to one being built, which limits capacity there particularly at peak times.

devnull

Well it must be something like that because the strange thing is on a Saturday some of those Howth trains are Malahide (17:39) and the Malahides are Howths (17:24, 17:54) with some of the commuters having their Howth Junction stops re-instated.

The obvious solution if there is not any spare rolling stock (which I find hard to believe) is to cut the cars on one of the Howth Trains to allow the Malahide to be Strengthened, since even if one of those trains are tightly loaded which they rarely are, there will be another one along in less than 10 minutes.

Also the situation is further not helped by the next Malahide following the four car 17:54, not being until 18.42 (another two Howths in a row directly after it - its ridiculous that the Malahide branch can have just one train between the 17.24 and the 18.42 and for it to be only four cars when the Howth Branch is getting 5 trains and generally longer ones too.

Vic_08

devnull wrote: »

The funny thing is, the first train of the day on the Malahide branch at 6.20 something is always an eight car when it could get away with a six, the morning seems to be fine but it's the evening where the problems seem to be.

It couldn't get away with a six because it is the wrong type of unit, 4 or 8 are the options and because it then forms the 08.00 from Greystones one of the busiest services in the entire schedule it needs to be 8. Your journey is not the only one that capacity needs to be balanced for and the fact is that reducing cars was necessary for cost reduction due to falling revenues and subvention.

IMO Irish Rail should stop trying to brush off these issues and be honest with their paying passengers that they are compromising capacity on certain services due to their current financial situation.

Vic_08

devnull wrote: »

Well it must be something like that because the strange thing is on a Saturday some of those Howth trains are Malahide (17:39) and the Malahides are Howths (17:24, 17:54) with some of the commuters having their Howth Junction stops re-instated.

The obvious solution if there is not any spare rolling stock (which I find hard to believe) is to cut the cars on one of the Howth Trains to allow the Malahide to be Strengthened, since even if one of those trains are tightly loaded which they rarely are, there will be another one along in less than 10 minutes.

Also the situation is further not helped by the next Malahide following the four car 17:54, not being until 18.42 (another two Howths in a row directly after it - its ridiculous that the Malahide branch can have just one train between the 17.24 and the 18.42 and for it to be only four cars when the Howth Branch is getting 5 trains and generally longer ones too.

There are 5 trains to Malahide in that timescale just 3 happen not to be DARTS, stop selectively ignoring the northern commuter service. You are well aware that it is the mix of both that are used to provide capacity for the Malahide line stations not DART alone.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

Well it must be something like that because the strange thing is on a Saturday some of those Howth trains are Malahide (17:39) and the Malahides are Howths (17:24, 17:54) with some of the commuters having their Howth Junction stops re-instated.

The obvious solution if there is not any spare rolling stock (which I find hard to believe) is to cut the cars on one of the Howth Trains to allow the Malahide to be Strengthened, since even if one of those trains are tightly loaded which they rarely are, there will be another one along in less than 10 minutes.

Also the situation is further not helped by the next Malahide following the four car 17:54, not being until 18.42 (another two Howths in a row directly after it - its ridiculous that the Malahide branch can have just one train between the 17.24 and the 18.42 and for it to be only four cars when the Howth Branch is getting 5 trains and generally longer ones too.

Again though, you have diesels at 17:35, 18:02 and 18:23 serving all stations from Howth Junction.

They're trying to maintain a 15-20 minute service on both the Howth and Malahide lines from the city centre through a combination of DART and diesel services. Yes it means that people from intermediate stations get a raw deal, but the vast majority of passengers are catered for. Those passengers from intermediate stations can change at Howth Junction.

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

There are 5 trains to Malahide in that timescale just 3 happen not to be DARTS, stop selectively ignoring the northern commuter service. You are well aware that it is the mix of both that are used to provide capacity for the Malahide line stations not DART alone.

You do know that not everyone has the luxury of picking a commuter or a DART, indeed for passengers north of Connolly but before Howth Junction there is no choice at all.

Your journey is not the only one that capacity needs to be balanced for and the fact is that reducing cars was necessary for cost reduction due to falling revenues and subvention.

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for the busiest northbound Malahide DART of the whole evening peak to be four carriages, serving a huge industrial estate who have no other choice but to use the DART since commuters do not stop there?

The 17.24 from Connolly avoids the worst of the rush yet is longer, and the 17:54, which takes a huge amount of people from the whole length of the DART line since it's generally the first Malahide that gets crushed full of people leaving work is four cars.

Whatever way you spin it, it is simply not acceptable for a service bang slap in the middle of peak to be four cars, I completely agree about the timetable distribution and the frequency, but four cars is not acceptable, even when it was six car it was pretty full.

All that needs to happen is that they take two cars from one of the Howth trains, preferably the eight cars, since every single stop on the DART line has a choice of a Howth 10 minutes or so either side, a choice not everyone has.

TheBandicoot

From what I can see there are connections to Northern Commuter services from Howth Junction at 1703, 1719, 1816 and 1832. That might be an option for some people on the northside DART stations heading to Malahide.

If the 1713 Pearse->Dundalk and/or 1650 Bray->Drogheda stopped at HJ that might help too but that would have knock-on effects with overcrowding on those services.

I agree there shouldn't be any 4 car sets out and about between 1600 and 1900 though.

devnull

TheBandicoot wrote: »

From what I can see there are connections to Northern Commuter services from Howth Junction at 1703, 1719, 1816 and 1832. That might be an option for some people on the northside DART stations heading to Malahide.

If the 1713 Pearse->Dundalk and/or 1650 Bray->Drogheda stopped at HJ that might help too but that would have knock-on effects with overcrowding on those services.

I agree there shouldn't be any 4 car sets out and about between 1600 and 1900 though.

The most annoying thing is that one of those eight car Howth's is only running from DL and not the whole route, seems like an awful waste of capacity.

The problems on the 17:54 from Connolly are also because it's the 17:10 from Bray, which means it's going to be the first DART to arrive for everyone who finishes around five that they can take for the vast majority of the southside, which makes the fact it is four cars even more madness.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

The most annoying thing is that one of those eight car Howth's is only running from DL and not the whole route, seems like an awful waste of capacity.

The problems on the 17:54 from Connolly are also because it's the 17:10 from Bray, which means it's going to be the first DART to arrive for everyone who finishes around five that they can take for the vast majority of the southside, which makes the fact it is four cars even more madness.

Given that the loadings would be heaviest from points north of Dun Laoghaire, I'd think that was quite appropriate.

The numbers travelling from Bray per se would not really be an issue - the loadings would really only become an issue from Grand Canal Dock northwards.

I really think your main beef should be about strengthening the 17:10 ex-Bray, rather than complaining about other trains, which probably also need the capacity. I think it's better to focus specifically on that. I'd be asking why it is only a four piece and what IE are going to do about it. Bringing other trains into the discussion is just muddying the argument.

My bottom line in this regard is whether people are being left behind by that train? If they are then it has to be strengthened as that's simply not good enough given the frequency of services.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You got an apology in the e-mail. Its far from suggesting that it didnt happen.

A mealy mouthed, blame avoiding "apology" is not an apology by proper customer service standards. And there's plenty of non-UK firms we can compare those to.