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Mercola / Natural News as sources

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  • 14-09-2014 9:02pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭


    Often pop up as sources on this forum yet you can pretty much guarantee that if this is your source then the the theory is complete nonsense. So why do people keep returning to these sites ?


    Mod: as per post 10 and thread being reopened:
    So is it possible for a qualified doctor to believe in supplements that " virtually remove all risk of developing cancer" or is he using his medical status as a cynical ploy to sell snake oil to the gullible ?


    http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html


«13456

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Because they spout stuff that people desperately want to believe to be true.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Because they spout stuff that people desperately want to believe to be true.

    But surely after the 5 or 6th cancer cure that wasn't you would see them for what they are?


  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Juan More Time


    Joseph Mercola is nothing more than a well educated snake oil salesman. Surely anyone with an ounce of savvy can see he just wants people to buy his pills and potions. The US food and drug administration have ordered him to stop making illegal claims about his products..


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,430 ✭✭✭weisses


    And the conspiracy would be ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    And the conspiracy would be ??

    As sources for many conspiracy theories I think it is relevant.

    Do you see these websites as valuable resources or just there to trick the gullible in to buying snake oil maybe they help invent the conspiracies to help sell their products?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,430 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    As sources for many conspiracy theories I think it is relevant.

    Do you see these websites as valuable resources or just there to trick the gullible in to buying snake oil maybe they help invent the conspiracies to help sell their products?

    You started the thread so its up to you to explain the conspiracy .. preferably with some links or other info that supports your theory


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    You started the thread so its up to you to explain the conspiracy .. preferably with some links or other info that supports your theory

    Well the lack of credibility of these websites is not in question just curious as to why these websites continually appear here and why those who use them persist with them.

    I think , while not necessarily a conspiracy theory , it is still relevant to the forum. If a mod thinks otherwise so be it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,733 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    Theories and information within the theories can be debated til the cows come home, unless there's an actual conspiracy theory about or from Mercola this doesn't adhere to the charter.

    Locking thread.

    OP if you want this reopened, with a relevant theory let me know in PM.

    thread reopened per OP's request and updated OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    So is it possible for a qualified doctor to believe in supplements that " virtually remove all risk of developing cancer" or is he using his medical status as a cynical ploy to sell snake oil to the gullible ?


    http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    jh79 wrote: »
    Often pop up as sources on this forum
    No they don't.
    jh79 wrote: »
    yet you can pretty much guarantee that if this is your source then the the theory is complete nonsense.
    So why do people keep returning to these sites ?[/QUOTE]
    They don't.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    jh79 wrote: »
    So is it possible for a qualified doctor to believe in supplements that " virtually remove all risk of developing cancer" or is he using his medical status as a cynical ploy to sell snake oil to the gullible ?


    http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

    Quackwatch aren't exactly squeaky clean either to be fair.

    Quackbusters Accused of "Racketeering" (RICO) in Colorado...

    Summar3.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    No they don't.

    So why do people keep returning to these sites ?
    They don't.[/quote]

    Since I've started following this forum Mercola and natural news have made regular enough appearances . Not as frequent as they used to be alright.

    So you wouldn't view Mercola as credible? Would you agree his aim is purely to sell snake oil rather

    How about natural news ? Mercola often appears as a guest contributor according to wiki.

    Mike Adams makes even more outrageous and downright frightening claims than Mercola but with 7 million hits a month it mustn't be doing his bank balance any harm. Whether his many crazy beliefs are part of his business model I'm not sure.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    jh79 wrote: »
    They don't.

    Since I've started following this forum Mercola and natural news have made regular enough appearances . Not as frequent as they used to be alright.

    So you wouldn't view Mercola as credible? Would you agree his aim is purely to sell snake oil rather

    How about natural news ? Mercola often appears as a guest contributor according to wiki.

    Mike Adams makes even more outrageous and downright frightening claims than Mercola but with 7 million hits a month it mustn't be doing his bank balance any harm. Whether his many crazy beliefs are part of his business model I'm not sure.
    I genuinely don't know who any of these people are. I don't visit those sites at all without reason.

    Speaking only for myself, whoever they are or whatever their history I would at least try to judge their information on it's merits. Same with anything really - That is until the dam of lies bursts e.g. "insert IDF spokeman"


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    I genuinely don't know who any of these people are. I don't visit those sites at all without reason.

    Speaking only for myself, whoever they are or whatever their history I would at least try to judge their information on it's merits. Same with anything really.

    Well every disease known to man has a cure on Mercola, a site run by an actual doctor!

    An FDA warning letter for selling a supplement that he claimed "virtually removes all risk of developing cancer" , a doctor remember! Throw in anti-vaccines, anti-fluoride and AIDS / HIV denial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    Did a search of boards and while Mercola pops up regularly across the site to my surprise he doesn't appear too often here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,733 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    jh79 wrote: »
    Well every disease known to man has a cure on Mercola, a site run by an actual doctor!

    Technically, he's right about that, the cures just need to be found first. Placebo's are very powerful drugs to some


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    jh79 wrote: »
    Did a search of boards and while Mercola pops up regularly across the site to my surprise he doesn't appear too often here.
    Me too, and about 50% of the time here it's you ;)

    Don't get me wrong, I get where you are coming from and largely agree with you but to me most of the useless **** we buy is based on fear and the consequences of not having whatever "must have" we are induced to "need".

    It's not a million miles away from this:


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    Technically, he's right about that, the cures just need to be found first. Placebo's are very powerful drugs to some

    He claims to already have them for sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    Me too, and about 50% of the time here it's you ;)

    Don't get me wrong, I get where you are coming from and largely agree with you but to me most of the useless **** we buy is based on fear and the consequences of not having whatever "must have" we are induced to "need".

    It's not a million miles away from this:

    Don't know long you have posted here but there was a time when a different cure for cancer was posted on here practically every week from Gerson to Colloidal silver. A few poster even claimed to have cured themselves of cancer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    I may have been one of those posters, years ago.
    I have been down the rabbit hole and out the other side :D
    What claims or theories I made I don't remember, but your welcome to search my profile and bring it up here.
    I'm happy to explain the logic behind it and my motivations and anything I now consider to be false that I did not at the time.
    If you truly wish to understand what is going on with people.

    Regarding cancer, I suspect still that the causes are very much hidden from the general public and most likely trained doctors too.
    I suspect that some treatments doctors use can be the root cause of cancer in cells.
    I went down the whole road of looking at fungus as being cancer.
    Over the years I have researched more on and off and consider it more likely that fungus is one of the results of these medications that are commonly used and this can mutate cells which causes cancer. But is not cancer itself. These funguses do act exactly the same as cancer and look exactly the same however.
    They eat tissue while feeding on sugars, starting in the bowel and invading the bloodstream(also causing Cerbatious cists with infected bacteria in sacks, consider cists in the brain and brain cancer also). This would be my main suspect for the majority of cases of bowel cancer and possibly many other types of cancer.


    Been to Mercolas site and he had good info on curing some of these underlying issues, however he is pushing expensive products that you don't need. you can use them alright, but you can also do just as well with natural home remedies as I have.
    I became interested in this because i had the same thing from antibiotics and no doctor could ever cure it or identify it(at least 4 different doctors), also a professor in beaumont. however I spent a few years researching and i cured a majority of the issues. But I would have been dead in a few years had I not went and sorted it by myself. I could barely walk at the time I was seeing doctors.
    Hence my conspiracy theories on the medical industry and Agenda 21 population control.
    Cancer is big business and people are making massive profits out of sick people. Doctors I would suspect are causing cancer, unbeknownst to themselves. When you go to college as an average person you listen to the authority and you follow along. you graduate get experience and are given the MD's list of drugs and companies for drugs to prescribe.
    That is the conspiracy worth looking into.


    I don't have any firm convictions. I just have a lot of suspicions on various things with this topic and a lot of personal experience in curing and tracing back where these issues came from.
    Whats great is my journey through research and conspiracies has helped me to find answers fast, I have also helped people cure ME as well, because it's exactly the same root cause.And many others with the same issue as myself have been in touch and found some relief.

    There is so much to say on this topic....I forget half of my research regarding the conspiracy, but I believe i started a thread a few years back at the start of my research to figure out if the whole fungus thing was really cancer.

    The motivation for people to go to Mercola and friends is purely out of desperation when seeing just how dangerous the alternatives are.
    I survive and I am sad to say i am seriously starting to believe that many people are being murdered needlessly. because if the docotrs are soignorant, then someone must know very well and made this happen. Or are the "quacks" like me who go the natural cure root just paranoid, despite the cures to illnesses that have worked?

    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Chronic-fatigue-syndrome/Pages/Treatment.aspx
    Check this out....
    There is no cure for chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), but treatments can help relieve the symptoms.
    I had a friend in Norway diagnosed with ME/CFS. He had been to specialists for years. Spent most of his days lying in bed at home half asleep and depressed. And had lots of prescriptions too.
    I gave him some diet tips to cure the same thing I had which had the same symptoms. He got better after a week....
    Anecdotel to you maybe.. But tell me, if you experienced all this, wouldn't you start to suspect something is up?

    Anything written above, is purely my own ideas or opinions and must NOT be taken as medical advice.
    If you are sick, see a medical expert.
    Hope thatcovers boards and mods in case their is any worry. It should I think. This is CT's...Not a health section.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    Torakx wrote: »
    I may have been one of those posters, years ago.
    I have been down the rabbit hole and out the other side :D
    What claims or theories I made I don't remember, but your welcome to search my profile and bring it up here.
    I'm happy to explain the logic behind it and my motivations and anything I now consider to be false that I did not at the time.
    If you truly wish to understand what is going on with people.

    Regarding cancer, I suspect still that the causes are very much hidden from the general public and most likely trained doctors too.
    I suspect that some treatments doctors use can be the root cause of cancer in cells.
    I went down the whole road of looking at fungus as being cancer.
    Over the years I have researched more on and off and consider it more likely that fungus is one of the results of these medications that are commonly used and this can mutate cells which causes cancer. But is not cancer itself. These funguses do act exactly the same as cancer and look exactly the same however.
    They eat tissue while feeding on sugars, starting in the bowel and invading the bloodstream(also causing Cerbatious cists with infected bacteria in sacks, consider cists in the brain and brain cancer also). This would be my main suspect for the majority of cases of bowel cancer and possibly many other types of cancer.


    Been to Mercolas site and he had good info on curing some of these underlying issues, however he is pushing expensive products that you don't need. you can use them alright, but you can also do just as well with natural home remedies as I have.
    I became interested in this because i had the same thing from antibiotics and no doctor could ever cure it or identify it(at least 4 different doctors), also a professor in beaumont. however I spent a few years researching and i cured a majority of the issues. But I would have been dead in a few years had I not went and sorted it by myself. I could barely walk at the time I was seeing doctors.
    Hence my conspiracy theories on the medical industry and Agenda 21 population control.
    Cancer is big business and people are making massive profits out of sick people. Doctors I would suspect are causing cancer, unbeknownst to themselves. When you go to college as an average person you listen to the authority and you follow along. you graduate get experience and are given the MD's list of drugs and companies for drugs to prescribe.
    That is the conspiracy worth looking into.


    I don't have any firm convictions. I just have a lot of suspicions on various things with this topic and a lot of personal experience in curing and tracing back where these issues came from.
    Whats great is my journey through research and conspiracies has helped me to find answers fast, I have also helped people cure ME as well, because it's exactly the same root cause.And many others with the same issue as myself have been in touch and found some relief.

    There is so much to say on this topic....I forget half of my research regarding the conspiracy, but I believe i started a thread a few years back at the start of my research to figure out if the whole fungus thing was really cancer.

    The motivation for people to go to Mercola and friends is purely out of desperation when seeing just how dangerous the alternatives are.
    I survive and I am sad to say i am seriously starting to believe that many people are being murdered needlessly. because if the docotrs are soignorant, then someone must know very well and made this happen. Or are the "quacks" like me who go the natural cure root just paranoid, despite the cures to illnesses that have worked?

    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Chronic-fatigue-syndrome/Pages/Treatment.aspx
    Check this out....

    I had a friend in Norway diagnosed with ME/CFS. He had been to specialists for years. Spent most of his days lying in bed at home half asleep and depressed. And had lots of prescriptions too.
    I gave him some diet tips to cure the same thing I had which had the same symptoms. He got better after a week....
    Anecdotel to you maybe.. But tell me, if you experienced all this, wouldn't you start to suspect something is up?

    Anything written above, is purely my own ideas or opinions and must NOT be taken as medical advice.
    If you are sick, see a medical expert.
    Hope thatcovers boards and mods in case their is any worry. It should I think. This is CT's...Not a health section.



    Interesting you should bring up fungi I was putting together a couple of links





    We recently concluded a study to determine what works best at eliminating this contagious fungal infection that affects the skin, hand, scalp, groin, feet (athlete’s foot) and nails. We systematically reviewed all available data to determine how well each of the various topical and oral drug regimens eradicated the infection, whether there were any side effects and if the ringworm infection reoccurred.
    Phytozine

    Upon reviewing several top ointments, Phytozine came out number one because it produced immediate results in eliminating ringworm infections at different stages and associated symptoms. It did not cause irritation, redness, or dryness in people with sensitive skin. We chose it as the best ringworm product because it eradicated the contagious ring-like skin infection at the source, prevented it from coming back and left behind clear skin instead of scars where deep abscesses had formed
    Prescription Drugs

    Oral and topical medications like miconazole (Monistat-Derm), griseofulvin, terbinafine (Lamisil), clotrimazole (Lotrimin), oxiconazole (Oxistat) etc are designed to prevent fungi from growing and multiplying. They are typically available through doctor’s prescription and come in several forms: capsules, gels, creams, pills and sprays. The active ingredient is an antifungal agent that attacks the cell membranes of the organisms that cause ringworm in humans

    It’s important to be cautious when using oral pills for ringworm as they have been linked to numerous adverse side effects which may include but are not limited to:

    gastrointestinal problems such as constipation and diarrhea
    headaches
    vertigo
    liver damage
    anxiety
    loss of taste
    hives
    nausea
    fatigue
    Tea Tree Oil


    It has been used for hundreds of years to treat a variety of ailments including colds, wounds and skin problems. The oil has antimicrobial, antibacterial, antifungal and antiseptic properties that work together to fight off common infections like ringworm.

    After diagnosis, the oil should be applied to the affected area twice per day until the rash goes away. It can take two weeks or more to see results. Though it comes from a natural source, tea tree oil should not be ingested. You should also avoid using it, or use it sparingly as a treatment for ringworm, if you are pregnant or nursing.

    http://www.ringwormtreatmentreviews.com/

    So Tea Tree oil does the job as well as the big pharma products and the number one ointment guess what it contains amongst other things
    Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree) Leaf Oil

    Griseofulvin (marketed under the proprietary name Grifulvin V by Orthoneutrogena Labs, according to FDA orange book) is an antifungal drug that is administered orally. It is used both in animals and in humans, to treat fungal infections of the skin (commonly known as ringworm) and nails. It is produced by culture of some strains of the mold Penicillium griseofulvum, from which it was isolated in 1939.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griseofulvin

    (Santa Barbara, Calif.) – A drug that has been used for 40 years for the treatment of skin fungus has been found to be a possible cancer treatment, according to an international team of scientists.

    Leslie Wilson, professor of biochemistry and pharmacology at the University of California, Santa Barbara, said that the anti-fungal drug, griseofulvin, has been shown to inhibit the growth of cancer cells in his laboratory. The results are published in today's online edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    http://www.ia.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1318

    So yea maybe the fungus idea has merit and if Tea Tree oil and garlic and other natural substances can kill fungi could it be possible they also have uses in treating cancers ?

    Now if this Griseofulvin was around in 1939 let alone the Tea Tree and other natural cures what the fu+k were they doing with the radiation


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    In both your examples the natural product was not the most effective treatment.

    Griseofulvin shows only a small anti-proliferative effect according to the summary you linked to.

    Natural products in general are a source for new drugs rather than effective treatments themselves.

    "Natural Products as Sources of New Drugs over the 30 Years from 1981 to 2010"

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3721181/


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,430 ✭✭✭weisses


    I still fail to see the conspiracy here ... Can someone( OP)present an angle which we can actually discuss ? Backed up with something better then that quackwatch waffle


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    I still fail to see the conspiracy here ... Can someone( OP)present an angle which we can actually discuss ? Backed up with something better then that quackwatch waffle

    The conspiracy is that no person with a professional qualification in a science field, in this case a medical doctor, would promote or believe in the majority of the "articles" on Mercola and that his website is a cynical attempt to fool the gullible in to buying snake oil. His medical background is cynically used to legitimize his false claims. He has many FDA warning letters to his name.

    One product claimed to virtually remove all risk of developing cancer???

    One a side note, Mercola and the closely related Natural News are terrible sources for medical matters bordering on parody.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,430 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    The conspiracy is that no person with a professional qualification in a science field, in this case a medical doctor, would promote or believe in the majority of the "articles" on Mercola and that his website is a cynical attempt to fool the gullible in to buying snake oil. His medical background is cynically used to legitimize his false claims. He has many FDA warning letters to his name.

    One product claimed to virtually remove all risk of developing cancer???

    One a side note, Mercola and the closely related Natural News are terrible sources for medical matters bordering on parody.

    But what is the conspiracy ? ... Not want to be pedantic but you say/claim possible foul play but are not presenting anything to support that theory


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    But what is the conspiracy ? ... Not want to be pedantic but you say/claim possible foul play but are not presenting anything to support that theory

    Google his FDA warning letters or have a look at either his or the Natural News websites and then remind yourself that this guy is an MD!

    Plenty on google but will stick something up later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,430 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    Google his FDA warning letters or have a look at either his or the Natural News websites and then remind yourself that this guy is an MD!

    Plenty on google but will stick something up later.

    All fine but what is he conspiring to according to you ? Other then possible malpractice

    I don't think it's up to me to google/find a possible CT when you as OP not even presented one


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    All fine but what is he conspiring to according to you ? Other then possible malpractice

    I don't think it's up to me to google/find a possible CT when you as OP not even presented one

    He is using his status as a doctor to sell sake oil cures he also promotes other alt medicine conspiracy theories (fluoride , vaccines) to help generate business for his online shop. His medical background means he is aware they are a load of nonsense.

    While I am not up to speed with the Quackwatch people and their credibility the article does explain the various run ins he had with the FDA, I will try to stick up some links later.

    Do you read the stuff on Mercola, do you find it credible that a Doctor would believe in these theories?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,430 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    He is using his status as a doctor to sell sake oil cures he also promotes other alt medicine conspiracy theories (fluoride , vaccines) to help generate business for his online shop. His medical background means he is aware they are a load of nonsense.

    While I am not up to speed with the Quackwatch people and their credibility the article does explain the various run ins he had with the FDA, I will try to stick up some links later.

    Do you read the stuff on Mercola, do you find it credible that a Doctor would believe in these theories?

    So that would be possible malpractice ... Again something the FDA could and would tackle

    I do read the mercola site and beside what you think about it I cannot see any conspiracy with it

    When you put up your linkies later it would be nice to point out the specific parts regarding your CT


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    So that would be possible malpractice ... Again something the FDA could and would tackle

    I do read the mercola site and beside what you think about it I cannot see any conspiracy with it

    When you put up your linkies later it would be nice to point out the specific parts regarding your CT

    Not malpractice as he is not a practicing doctor anymore. More money to be made in snake oil it seems.

    He makes claims of clinical effects of supplements that have no proven clinical benefit. As a Doctor he is aware that they have no clinical benefit.

    http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2005/ucm076069.htm

    "Eliminating processed foods with whole foods like chlorella will help to virtually eliminate your risk of developing cancer in the future."

    This guy is a qualified Doctor so it is not a case of ignorance like most alt medicine snake oil sellers.


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