Advice On Hitting A Push Draw

NFH

Like most weekend golfers I hit a weak fade to slice, averaging about 250-270 yards. I want to start hitting push draws with my longer clubs to get more distance.

I can hit a push draw with easy using long irons - strong grip, feet & shoulders aligned parallel to target line, ball close to center, club face open to target (1 o'clock if target is 12 o'clock) and club path hitting to 2 o'clock.

However, with woods and driver its not the same. I keep hitting pushes, the ball starts right and goes straight right but does not come back. It seems to me my club face is hitting the ball open as it should but I just am not getting enough of an in-to-out swing path with woods ot driver. Any suggestions, what do I need to do differently with my driver/woods to get the same push draw I can get with my irons? Cheers.

spacecoyote

A pro is really your best bet. Or maybe check out some Mark crossfield videos on the topic on YouTube.

But the reality is that most weekend golfers aren't getting close to 250-270 with their average drive, so if you are getting that distance with a controlled fade then I'd be pretty happy

Senna

What's the old saying "you can talk to a fade but a draw won't listen"
250+ with a fade, I'd take that any day, aim for left fairway and watch it come into the middle.

PARlance

Senna wrote: »

What's the old saying "you can talk to a fade but a draw won't listen"
250+ with a fade, I'd take that any day, aim for left fairway and watch it come into the middle.

Draws listen

You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen

Senna

PARlance wrote: »

Draws listen

You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen

That does sound more like it
none of my shots listen

ShivasIrons

NFH wrote: »

Like most weekend golfers I hit a weak fade to slice, averaging about 250-270 yards. I want to start hitting push draws with my longer clubs to get more distance.

I can hit a push draw with easy using long irons - strong grip, feet & shoulders aligned parallel to target line, ball close to center, club face open to target (1 o'clock if target is 12 o'clock) and club path hitting to 2 o'clock.

However, with woods and driver its not the same. I keep hitting pushes, the ball starts right and goes straight right but does not come back. It seems to me my club face is hitting the ball open as it should but I just am not getting enough of an in-to-out swing path with woods ot driver. Any suggestions, what do I need to do differently with my driver/woods to get the same push draw I can get with my irons? Cheers.

Where are you striking it on the face? More towards the toe and you'll get your right to left shape

Benny Cake

If your weak fade goes 250-270 and is in play, I advise you not to change a thing...

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Where are you striking it on the face? More towards the toe and you'll get your right to left shape

and lose a bunch of distance, I wouldnt advise trying to move the ball by hitting different parts of the face...

In to out swing path with a neutral face will give you a push draw OP.

whizbang

the ball starts right and goes straight right but does not come back.

It seems to me my club face is hitting the ball open as it should

NO - It shouldn't.

The Clubface should be slightly closed. If you are getting a push, the Swingpath is correct.

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

and lose a bunch of distance, I wouldnt advise trying to move the ball by hitting different parts of the face...

In to out swing path with a neutral face will give you a push draw OP.

There's more ball speed with strikes slightly off center towards the toe, no loss of distance.

In to out swing path with neutral face will be a push with a centered strike.

In to out swing path with face open to the target but closed to the path gives a draw with a centered strike.

Senecio

GreeBo wrote: »

In to out swing path with a neutral face will give you a push draw OP.

The face needs to be slightly open to the target but inside the path to hit a push draw.

4* in to out path with a club face that is 2* open to target etc...

shaneon77

Some poor advice being given on here. Some good stuff too but not very clear. Have a look at this forum link. The diagram on the third reply is very good. http://thesandtrap.com/t/43037/ball-flight-rules-hitting-a-push-draw
I find that placing the ball back in my stance helps. I have been trying this method for a while now with mixed success. I find that a push to the right is the danger when the swing isn't pulled off correctly.

alxmorgan

whizbang wrote: »

NO - It shouldn't.

The Clubface should be slightly closed. If you are getting a push, the Swingpath is correct.

Closed to the path but open to the target so he is correct.

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

There's more ball speed with strikes slightly off center towards the toe, no loss of distance.

In to out swing path with neutral face will be a push with a centered strike.

In to out swing path with face open to the target but closed to the path gives a draw with a centered strike.

Face neutral to target, not swing path I mean.

Not hitting the centre means you miss the sweetspot, unless you are using shovels to play you will lose distance.

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

Face neutral to target, not swing path I mean.

Not hitting the centre means you miss the sweetspot, unless you are using shovels to play you will lose distance.

Face neutral to the target with an in to out path will have the ball finishing left of the target with a centered strike.

Not hitting the sweet spot can increase distance. High on the face will increase launch and lower spin. Giving increased distance to most.

Hitting slightly towards the toe and slightly high can be preferable for hitting the ball further. All of the club head is not moving at the same speed. The toe of the club head is moving faster.

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Face neutral to the target with an in to out path will have the ball finishing left of the target with a centered strike.

Why do you say that?
Depending on the amount of in to out the ball will start right (push) and draw back.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Not hitting the sweet spot can increase distance. High on the face will increase launch and lower spin. Giving increased distance to most.

Only if there is something else wrong in the swing. Why would you encourage someone to not try to hit the middle of their club?
Hitting off the toe with a 3 iron is a great experience!
I have never before heard someone advise trying to miss the centre of the club.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Hitting slightly towards the toe and slightly high can be preferable for hitting the ball further. All of the club head is not moving at the same speed. The toe of the club head is moving faster.

Yeah the toe moves marginally faster, I cant agree that this is a good strategy to try for though.

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

Why do you say that?
Depending on the amount of in to out the ball will start right (push) and draw back.


Only if there is something else wrong in the swing. Why would you encourage someone to not try to hit the middle of their club?
Hitting off the toe with a 3 iron is a great experience!
I have never before heard someone advise trying to miss the centre of the club.

Yeah the toe moves marginally faster, I cant agree that this is a good strategy to try for though.

Face angle accounts for 75-85% of where the ball starts. At impact if the face angle is square to the target and the path is in to out the ball starts in between the path and the face, closer to the target in this case, and will curve left of it.

I wouldn't encourage someone to hit it towards the toe of a 3 iron but this discussion is about a driver and in many cases not hitting the sweet spot will increase distance. Even in a perfect swing, due to hear effect, hitting it higher on the face launches the ball higher and lowers the spin leading to longer drives.

If a golfer would like a draw with the driver and is not getting one, hitting it slightly off the toe would help.

NFH

Cheers for the replies.

Although I'm happy enough with how I'm driving at the moment it's not long enough for certain courses. Played the Blue Tee's Challenge at Galway Bay a few weeks back, 570 par 5's & 460 par 4's, but probably only made a handful of greens in regulation, so think I need to start hitting push draws for distance.

As for hitting nearer the toe, I would have thought trying to hit the sweet spot is what you want to be doing. Hitting off the toe of the club looks like its a common problem for golfers that needs fixing when you start reading up on it.

I know the theory, club face 2 degrees open to target and club path 4 degrees, but actually executing this consistently at the range is not happening for me. Irons no problem actually but woods/driver the only time I've actually pulled it off is when I get the club face open as it needs to be and then drop my right foot back to close my stance to get my swing path where it needs to be.

I'm setting up fine I think, it must be a downswing thing, I must not be bringing the club enough from the inside.

michael1930

Your swing path determines where the ball starts. Your club face angle, relative to your swing path, determines where your ball finishes.
If you swing from inside to outside (ball will start right of your target line) with a club face slightly closed to your swing path (the ball will move back onto your target line) you will produce a draw flight path.

alxmorgan

michael1930 wrote: »

Your swing path determines where the ball starts. Your club face angle, relative to your swing path, determines where your ball finishes.
If you swing from inside to outside (ball will start right of your target line) with a club face slightly closed to your swing path (the ball will move back onto your target line) you will produce a draw flight path.

No, no it doesn't. Yes according to old ball flight laws but according to the new ones club face is primary factor determing where ball starts.




I think the OP knows his stuff as to what produces a push draw, he needs help hitting one.

OP - I would suggest trying a more aggressive move towards the target with your hips to start the DS as this should drop hands to the inside producing more in to out.

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Face angle accounts for 75-85% of where the ball starts. At impact if the face angle is square to the target and the path is in to out the ball starts in between the path and the face, closer to the target in this case, and will curve left of it.

I wouldn't encourage someone to hit it towards the toe of a 3 iron but this discussion is about a driver and in many cases not hitting the sweet spot will increase distance. Even in a perfect swing, due to hear effect, hitting it higher on the face launches the ball higher and lowers the spin leading to longer drives.

If a golfer would like a draw with the driver and is not getting one, hitting it slightly off the toe would help.

Well the only way to get face angle square to target when swinging in to out is to have it closed at setup.
When I say neutral I mean at setup, that may be the confusion.
Other than with trackman etc its not really possible to adjust the face angle by swing path, with any accuracy.

tbh the thread is about push draws, not just irons.

Would you encourage someone to aim for the toe with some clubs and the middle with others?

ShivasIrons

NFH wrote: »

Cheers for the replies.

Although I'm happy enough with how I'm driving at the moment it's not long enough for certain courses. Played the Blue Tee's Challenge at Galway Bay a few weeks back, 570 par 5's & 460 par 4's, but probably only made a handful of greens in regulation, so think I need to start hitting push draws for distance.

As for hitting nearer the toe, I would have thought trying to hit the sweet spot is what you want to be doing. Hitting off the toe of the club looks like its a common problem for golfers that needs fixing when you start reading up on it.

I know the theory, club face 2 degrees open to target and club path 4 degrees, but actually executing this consistently at the range is not happening for me. Irons no problem actually but woods/driver the only time I've actually pulled it off is when I get the club face open as it needs to be and then drop my right foot back to close my stance to get my swing path where it needs to be.

I'm setting up fine I think, it must be a downswing thing, I must not be bringing the club enough from the inside.

Gear effect has a big effect on direction with a driver. If a golfer is hitting one shape with the irons and not getting the same shape with a driver the most likely issue is strike point on the face. Irons are shorter and easier to hit towards the center. If the ball is not curving right to left with your driver the most likely issue is strike point towards the heel.

Even hitting a small bit off the center will cause changes to the ball flight. In the image attached, the top photo will mainly cause left to right shots, the bottom photo mainly straight shots. The impact towards the toe in the bottom photo would cause a lot of right to left movement and when I say hit it towards the toe I'm not advocating that much towards the toe, just a small amount, not even a centimeter.

You need to find out where you're hitting the face of the club and then look at the swing afterwards.

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

Well the only way to get face angle square to target when swinging in to out is to have it closed at setup.
When I say neutral I mean at setup, that may be the confusion.
Other than with trackman etc its not really possible to adjust the face angle by swing path, with any accuracy.

tbh the thread is about push draws, not just irons.

Would you encourage someone to aim for the toe with some clubs and the middle with others?

There's many ways to get the club face closed to the path at impact without doing it at set up, grip and release are two other ways of doing it.

I would encourage different impact points on the club face to get different desired results.

TheDoc

I was hitting a high fade two year ago, and now hit a more lower flight draw. It's at it's biggest with a driver, and more subdued with scoring irons, but I get where you are coming from I think. I used to hit a big fade, and realised I could get more if I could draw, and actually use the run of the fairways in summer.

The drill I used I stumbled across on youtube. Basically you need two objects. I used small baskets at the driving range. You position them, one in front of the ball, one behind.

The one in front you move slightly below the ball (if looking down on it from above). the second you position behind, and above the ball (again if looking from above)

What you should have is a little gate if you stand behind. The purpose of this is to promote a drawing swing plane. If you keep it too straight, or go on the path of a fade, you'll hit one of the markers.

I started of with half swings. Immediately found I was rotating my hips more and my wrists were doing more of what they should be.

What's really important is the follow through imo. Making sure that at impact, you continue through on the plane. If your snap hooking, or hitting slingshot hooks, you know your not following through on the correct plane.

Once your comfy after a while doing this, move onto more full shots.

I did this three nights a week for about maybe a month, two months, and I now hit draws as if it was my natural arc.

The only thing I'll warn is that it will feel epic weird at the start. A common mistake, and one I made, was thinking you need to "roll" your wrists after impact. I don't know who or where this falicy came from, but you never roll your wrists. Roll your wrists and you'll slingshot hook. Just make the follow through complete and for me anyway, my body did the rest.

Another problem I only copped last night. Had a lesson with the local pro on my short game, first lesson ever really(and was really happy with it). Noticed I was struggling to nip the turf to get a little bite on my chips. When he went and stood behind me noticed I was keeping the clubhead low and around, trasnfering my long iron game into my shortgame.

so just be careful for that, for shortgame, you'll want to keep it somewhat straighter, rather then arcing around on that draw plane.

Feet alignment is a weird one. A great player once showed me a "shortcut" to fade or draw. And it involved moving my right foot either closer or further away. Basically closing or opening my stance. When I strike now, my feet are straight, I'm just aiming right of target. My ball position is normal for the type of club I'm using. I read a lot about draw stuff, and there is mention of closing the stance a bit more, so maybe there is something to it, but I know I don't do ti

And most interestingly with my draw, I don't manipulate the clubface, it's very much neutral. I don't close the face at all. I rely totally on the swing plane and follow through to get me the draw flight. Point being unless I was doing it right, the clubface would nearly open and slice, but it doesn't. So it might either be my grip, or my wrist cocking and release. Either way, from reading comments on the thread, I clearly learned a weird self taught way to draw

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

There's many ways to get the club face closed to the path at impact without doing it at set up, grip and release are two other ways of doing it.

Yes there are many ways, but realistically only at setup do you stand a decent chance of setting the angle you want.

Setting up one way and trying to manipulate the face around impact is needle in a haystack stuff.
also, surely grip is setup...unless you are promoting regripping during the swing!

ShivasIrons wrote: »

I would encourage different impact points on the club face to get different desired results.

How? With a different setup each time or "aiming" for a different part of the clubface?

We may have to agree to disagree on this, as I strongly disagree with advocating deliberately trying to not use the middle of the clubface, the bit thats designed to be hit.

TheDoc

I'm with the above, advocating to hit elsewhere on the clubface, bar the sweetspot, to get shot manipulation, is total rubbish, to be blunt.

If your not hitting the sweet spot, ergo the centre, your hitting a bad shot. There is simply no other way around it.

FixdePitchmark

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm with the above, advocating to hit elsewhere on the clubface, bar the sweetspot, to get shot manipulation, is total rubbish, to be blunt.

If your not hitting the sweet spot, ergo the centre, your hitting a bad shot. There is simply no other way around it.

There is no way around physics either -:D

Lads not sure about answer here - but Shivas works on this stuff.

GreeBo

If the ball goes further from the toe with no draw backs then why isnt that called the sweet spot?

spacecoyote

Whilst I don't agree with shivas re deliberate centre hits vs toe I do find on observation that when I do hit driver and its a toe strike I will often hit a solid draw

GreeBo

spacecoyote wrote: »

Whilst I don't agree with shivas re deliberate centre hits vs toe I do find on observation that when I do hit driver and its a toe strike I will often hit a solid draw

I dont think anyone is denying that the ball draws (and may roll more than normal) the argument (at least mine) is that there a re far better ways to hit a draw.

what happens if you are trying to hit off the toe, but you mi**** it and miss the ball altogether? Or when trying to play a fade off the heel you shank it becuase you hit what would normally be a heel shot?

spacecoyote

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont think anyone is denying that the ball draws (and may roll more than normal) the argument (at least mine) is that there a re far better ways to hit a draw.

what happens if you are trying to hit off the toe, but you mi**** it and miss the ball altogether? Or when trying to play a fade off the heel you shank it becuase you hit what would normally be a heel shot?

Not arguing against your side on this, in fact I agree with you. I'd never think to deliberately hit away from the sweet spot. Was just making an observation

stockdam

If your natural shot is a fade and you cannot hit a draw then you will need a lot of practice. A draw is easiest by changing your setup. If you can hit a push but not a draw then strengthen your grip further. Also make sure that you place the club behind the ball and then grip; don't grip then turn your hands or you'll not strengthen your grip relative to the club face.

Also practice using a bit of forearm roll (to closed) through the ball. This may not work for you as it is hard to get the timing right. Too much and you may get a snap hook.

You may be starting with the face pointing at the target but may be rolling the clubface open on the back swing and then not returning it to square at impact.

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

If your natural shot is a fade and you cannot hit a draw then you will need a lot of practice. A draw is easiest by changing your setup. If you can hit a push but not a draw then strengthen your grip further. Also make sure that you place the club behind the ball and then grip; don't grip then turn your hands or you'll not strengthen your grip relative to the club face.

Also practice using a bit of forearm roll (to closed) through the ball. This may not work for you as it is hard to get the timing right. Too much and you may get a snap hook.

You may be starting with the face pointing at the target but may be rolling the clubface open on the back swing and then not returning it to square at impact.

do you not think that swingpath and setup are much more solid ways to move the ball rather than trying to adjust the (supposed to be) natural release, or worse, adjust your normal timing?

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

do you not think that swingpath and setup are much more solid ways to move the ball rather than trying to adjust the (supposed to be) natural release, or worse, adjust your normal timing?

Yes, I thought I implied that in my post.

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

Yes, I thought I implied that in my post.

Sorry, your "also practice forearm roll" seemed to imply you thought that's an equally good way.

SaveOurLyric

NFH wrote: »

Like most weekend golfers I hit a weak fade to slice, averaging about 250-270 yards.

WTF ? What weekend golfer are they ?


I, like most weekend golfers, over-estimate by about 60 yards how far I hit my drives.

m r c

Greebo you are wrong and right here. Shivas is spot on when he says the part of a modern driver that gives the maximum distance is actually not the "middle bit" or the centre of gravity or the commonly understood sweetspot.

It's slightly higher than the cg and slightly toward the toe. Depending on the club maybe up to 5 mm each way. No more on most heads and often less.

Reason for it is gear effect. The driver head has gear effect on both axis. Hitting slightly high on the vertical axis reduces spin(required to go further in almost all cases) and hitting more toward the toe tilts the spin axis to promote more of a draw shape (producing a shot shape which most things being equal gies further than a fade)

Those things are facts proven by physics as we understand them.


That's why greebo seems to be wrong based on his posts here as I read them. Why he's right is to hit that part of the club face consistently requires skill that only some pga tour pros have far from all of the best golfers in the world can hit that part of their driver consistently.
To be talking about it on a thread where someone wants to hit a push draw with their driver won't materially help him here. While true really the vast majority if handicap golfers wouldn't be better off from knowing this.

Where shivas point stands up IMHO is when trying to play a draw as a h/c golfer you were better off to be aware that you are far better off missing on the toe than the heel. In a draw setup hitting the heel will prob require a reload, so if you aren't going to hit center miss it on the toe side and you will be playing from the left side next shot.


Anyway hi boards haven't been on much lately hope ye are all well.

GreeBo

Again I never disagreed that the ball draws off the toe, I just don't think it's relevant any more than you can stop a ball on the green by hitting the flag. It's true, it's just impractical advice imo.

Also, the OP specifically says with longer clubs yet the focus is on driver only, the face of a rescue for example doesn't lend itself it aiming for the toe, the driver face is huge and much more forgiving for toe hits.


Can anyone give any links that prove a toe strike travels further? The route is moving faster but there are other factors at play cog for one. I'd like to see the maths that says it increases distance.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

Again I never disagreed that the ball draws off the toe, I just don't think it's relevant any more than you can stop a ball on the green by hitting the flag. It's true, it's just impractical advice imo.

Also, the OP specifically says with longer clubs yet the focus is on driver only, the face of a rescue for example doesn't lend itself it aiming for the toe, the driver face is huge and much more forgiving for toe hits.


Can anyone give any links that prove a toe strike travels further? The route is moving faster but there are other factors at play cog for one. I'd like to see the maths that says it increases distance.

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2012/07/optimal-strike-point-for-longer-drives

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2012/07/optimal-strike-point-for-longer-drives

If thats where your toe is you need to go see a doctor.

He also ignores COG and a guy hitting shots in a field isnt exactly a scientific experiment with proof...

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

If thats where your toe is you need to go see a doctor.

He also ignores COG and a guy hitting shots in a field isnt exactly a scientific experiment with proof...

Shivas said it was a tiny bit towards the toe in fairness and I think the image bears that out. As to whether you can be that accurate is another debate

And to say it is a guy hitting shots in a field is OTT...Andrew Rice is using trackman data and I think you would agree he is well respected in the field (pun intended )

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

Shivas said it was a tiny bit towards the toe in fairness and I think the image bears that out. As to whether you can be that accurate is another debate

And to say it is a guy hitting shots in a field is OTT...Andrew Rice is using trackman data and I think you would agree he is well respected in the field (pun intended )

Trackman records the results though, it has no bearing on the repeatibilty of the test. Thats what you need to prove something.
How many other factors are involved each time the guy in the field takes a swipe?
Its nothing against him, you could put Stephen Hawkings in a field and he wouldnt be able to produce a repeatable test/result either.

Scientific Method.

m r c

GreeBo wrote: »

If thats where your toe is you need to go see a doctor.

He also ignores COG and a guy hitting shots in a field isnt exactly a scientific experiment with proof...

Greebo, this whole thread when we mentioned toe we haven't been referring to the toe on your foot. Maybe you didnt understand this.

GreeBo

m r c wrote: »

Greebo, this whole thread when we mentioned toe we haven't been referring to the toe on your foot. Maybe you didnt understand this.

Why do you think a club has parts referred to as a toe and a heel?

FixdePitchmark

mrc welcome back, you havent missed much.

Axel Lamp

This is a swing i'm also trying to achieve. I'm struggling though with the transition from backswing to downswing.

No problems going back on the outside but struggle with trying to come back on the inside to outside path.

Any tips on this?

GreeBo

Axel Lamp wrote: »

This is a swing i'm also trying to achieve. I'm struggling though with the transition from backswing to downswing.

No problems going back on the outside but struggle with trying to come back on the inside to outside path.

Any tips on this?

Draw a line on your ball and have the line aiming in to out, try to hit the ball along the line.
It doesnt really matter how you get back, its how you swing down.
You can also just use any branding etc on the ball.
I used the opposite to promote a more downward, out to in (feeling) myself.

m r c

Axel Lamp wrote: »

This is a swing i'm also trying to achieve. I'm struggling though with the transition from backswing to downswing.

No problems going back on the outside but struggle with trying to come back on the inside to outside path.

Any tips on this?

Most likely nothing anyone writes here will give u the feeling or the keyword that makes it click for you. But I struggled with getting this ball flight in the past too.

What worked for me was this.

Forget all about the science known and unknown. To play this shot u need to be able to hit a push.
Place an alignment rod down at target and see how far right of target you can land your ball with say a 7 iron.
Get that going and make the exact same swings with more of a closed face you shoukd be seeing more of a push draw type of shot.

Experiment with this as much as u feel the need to or not. I will say that playing with this type of ball flight has its own problems too. It's not nirvana

Make sure its a push ie not tailing with a fade too btw when its landing to the right.

GreeBo

Another option is to use something like the inside approach.
Stick an empty plastic bottle just outside the target line a foot behind the ball, swinging to miss this but hit the ball will result in an in to out downswing. You may need to move it around a little to find the right spot for it, but it shoudnt go further outside than the target line.

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry, your "also practice forearm roll" seemed to imply you thought that's an equally good way.

I said that "this may not work for you as it is hard to get the timing right" which means that it isn't as easy as adjusting your setup but it can also be used to close or to square up the club face at impact.

TheDoc

I'm kinda with Greebo here. If that picture is what people are calling the toe, well that's not the toe.

The initial discussion was referencing "toe" which is the furthest point forward on the club. I don't think that need's explaining.

What's being shown in that picture is probably still the sweetspot considering the size of them nowadays, but it's definitly not the toe.

And to even TRY and say that to try draw a ball, you should be looking to strike a ball at that spot is ludacrous. I think advice is better served describing or showing how to get on a draw swingplane, then try hit a specific spot on the face consistently.

What I will say however, as a draw hitter, I hit shots sometimes that "feel" like they came off the toe, and have a bit more of an exagerated draw flight. When when I look at the clubface after it's very clearly in the sweet spot, and it's just one of those things that feels different to what actually happened.