Advice On Hitting A Push Draw

Senna wrote: »

What's the old saying "you can talk to a fade but a draw won't listen"
250+ with a fade, I'd take that any day, aim for left fairway and watch it come into the middle.

Draws listen

You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen

NFH wrote: »

Like most weekend golfers I hit a weak fade to slice, averaging about 250-270 yards. I want to start hitting push draws with my longer clubs to get more distance.

I can hit a push draw with easy using long irons - strong grip, feet & shoulders aligned parallel to target line, ball close to center, club face open to target (1 o'clock if target is 12 o'clock) and club path hitting to 2 o'clock.

However, with woods and driver its not the same. I keep hitting pushes, the ball starts right and goes straight right but does not come back. It seems to me my club face is hitting the ball open as it should but I just am not getting enough of an in-to-out swing path with woods ot driver. Any suggestions, what do I need to do differently with my driver/woods to get the same push draw I can get with my irons? Cheers.

Where are you striking it on the face? More towards the toe and you'll get your right to left shape

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Where are you striking it on the face? More towards the toe and you'll get your right to left shape

and lose a bunch of distance, I wouldnt advise trying to move the ball by hitting different parts of the face...

In to out swing path with a neutral face will give you a push draw OP.

GreeBo wrote: »

and lose a bunch of distance, I wouldnt advise trying to move the ball by hitting different parts of the face...

In to out swing path with a neutral face will give you a push draw OP.

There's more ball speed with strikes slightly off center towards the toe, no loss of distance.

In to out swing path with neutral face will be a push with a centered strike.

In to out swing path with face open to the target but closed to the path gives a draw with a centered strike.

Some poor advice being given on here. Some good stuff too but not very clear. Have a look at this forum link. The diagram on the third reply is very good. http://thesandtrap.com/t/43037/ball-flight-rules-hitting-a-push-draw
I find that placing the ball back in my stance helps. I have been trying this method for a while now with mixed success. I find that a push to the right is the danger when the swing isn't pulled off correctly.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

There's more ball speed with strikes slightly off center towards the toe, no loss of distance.

In to out swing path with neutral face will be a push with a centered strike.

In to out swing path with face open to the target but closed to the path gives a draw with a centered strike.

Face neutral to target, not swing path I mean.

Not hitting the centre means you miss the sweetspot, unless you are using shovels to play you will lose distance.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Face neutral to the target with an in to out path will have the ball finishing left of the target with a centered strike.

Why do you say that?
Depending on the amount of in to out the ball will start right (push) and draw back.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Not hitting the sweet spot can increase distance. High on the face will increase launch and lower spin. Giving increased distance to most.

Only if there is something else wrong in the swing. Why would you encourage someone to not try to hit the middle of their club?
Hitting off the toe with a 3 iron is a great experience!
I have never before heard someone advise trying to miss the centre of the club.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Hitting slightly towards the toe and slightly high can be preferable for hitting the ball further. All of the club head is not moving at the same speed. The toe of the club head is moving faster.

Yeah the toe moves marginally faster, I cant agree that this is a good strategy to try for though.

michael1930 wrote: »

Your swing path determines where the ball starts. Your club face angle, relative to your swing path, determines where your ball finishes.
If you swing from inside to outside (ball will start right of your target line) with a club face slightly closed to your swing path (the ball will move back onto your target line) you will produce a draw flight path.

No, no it doesn't. Yes according to old ball flight laws but according to the new ones club face is primary factor determing where ball starts.




I think the OP knows his stuff as to what produces a push draw, he needs help hitting one.

OP - I would suggest trying a more aggressive move towards the target with your hips to start the DS as this should drop hands to the inside producing more in to out.

NFH wrote: »

Cheers for the replies.

Although I'm happy enough with how I'm driving at the moment it's not long enough for certain courses. Played the Blue Tee's Challenge at Galway Bay a few weeks back, 570 par 5's & 460 par 4's, but probably only made a handful of greens in regulation, so think I need to start hitting push draws for distance.

As for hitting nearer the toe, I would have thought trying to hit the sweet spot is what you want to be doing. Hitting off the toe of the club looks like its a common problem for golfers that needs fixing when you start reading up on it.

I know the theory, club face 2 degrees open to target and club path 4 degrees, but actually executing this consistently at the range is not happening for me. Irons no problem actually but woods/driver the only time I've actually pulled it off is when I get the club face open as it needs to be and then drop my right foot back to close my stance to get my swing path where it needs to be.

I'm setting up fine I think, it must be a downswing thing, I must not be bringing the club enough from the inside.

Gear effect has a big effect on direction with a driver. If a golfer is hitting one shape with the irons and not getting the same shape with a driver the most likely issue is strike point on the face. Irons are shorter and easier to hit towards the center. If the ball is not curving right to left with your driver the most likely issue is strike point towards the heel.

Even hitting a small bit off the center will cause changes to the ball flight. In the image attached, the top photo will mainly cause left to right shots, the bottom photo mainly straight shots. The impact towards the toe in the bottom photo would cause a lot of right to left movement and when I say hit it towards the toe I'm not advocating that much towards the toe, just a small amount, not even a centimeter.

You need to find out where you're hitting the face of the club and then look at the swing afterwards.

I was hitting a high fade two year ago, and now hit a more lower flight draw. It's at it's biggest with a driver, and more subdued with scoring irons, but I get where you are coming from I think. I used to hit a big fade, and realised I could get more if I could draw, and actually use the run of the fairways in summer.

The drill I used I stumbled across on youtube. Basically you need two objects. I used small baskets at the driving range. You position them, one in front of the ball, one behind.

The one in front you move slightly below the ball (if looking down on it from above). the second you position behind, and above the ball (again if looking from above)

What you should have is a little gate if you stand behind. The purpose of this is to promote a drawing swing plane. If you keep it too straight, or go on the path of a fade, you'll hit one of the markers.

I started of with half swings. Immediately found I was rotating my hips more and my wrists were doing more of what they should be.

What's really important is the follow through imo. Making sure that at impact, you continue through on the plane. If your snap hooking, or hitting slingshot hooks, you know your not following through on the correct plane.

Once your comfy after a while doing this, move onto more full shots.

I did this three nights a week for about maybe a month, two months, and I now hit draws as if it was my natural arc.

The only thing I'll warn is that it will feel epic weird at the start. A common mistake, and one I made, was thinking you need to "roll" your wrists after impact. I don't know who or where this falicy came from, but you never roll your wrists. Roll your wrists and you'll slingshot hook. Just make the follow through complete and for me anyway, my body did the rest.

Another problem I only copped last night. Had a lesson with the local pro on my short game, first lesson ever really(and was really happy with it). Noticed I was struggling to nip the turf to get a little bite on my chips. When he went and stood behind me noticed I was keeping the clubhead low and around, trasnfering my long iron game into my shortgame.

so just be careful for that, for shortgame, you'll want to keep it somewhat straighter, rather then arcing around on that draw plane.

Feet alignment is a weird one. A great player once showed me a "shortcut" to fade or draw. And it involved moving my right foot either closer or further away. Basically closing or opening my stance. When I strike now, my feet are straight, I'm just aiming right of target. My ball position is normal for the type of club I'm using. I read a lot about draw stuff, and there is mention of closing the stance a bit more, so maybe there is something to it, but I know I don't do ti

And most interestingly with my draw, I don't manipulate the clubface, it's very much neutral. I don't close the face at all. I rely totally on the swing plane and follow through to get me the draw flight. Point being unless I was doing it right, the clubface would nearly open and slice, but it doesn't. So it might either be my grip, or my wrist cocking and release. Either way, from reading comments on the thread, I clearly learned a weird self taught way to draw

I'm with the above, advocating to hit elsewhere on the clubface, bar the sweetspot, to get shot manipulation, is total rubbish, to be blunt.

If your not hitting the sweet spot, ergo the centre, your hitting a bad shot. There is simply no other way around it.

If the ball goes further from the toe with no draw backs then why isnt that called the sweet spot?

spacecoyote wrote: »

Whilst I don't agree with shivas re deliberate centre hits vs toe I do find on observation that when I do hit driver and its a toe strike I will often hit a solid draw

I dont think anyone is denying that the ball draws (and may roll more than normal) the argument (at least mine) is that there a re far better ways to hit a draw.

what happens if you are trying to hit off the toe, but you mi**** it and miss the ball altogether? Or when trying to play a fade off the heel you shank it becuase you hit what would normally be a heel shot?