Advice On Hitting A Push Draw

stockdam · 10-09-2014 10:16PM

If your natural shot is a fade and you cannot hit a draw then you will need a lot of practice. A draw is easiest by changing your setup. If you can hit a push but not a draw then strengthen your grip further. Also make sure that you place the club behind the ball and then grip; don't grip then turn your hands or you'll not strengthen your grip relative to the club face.

Also practice using a bit of forearm roll (to closed) through the ball. This may not work for you as it is hard to get the timing right. Too much and you may get a snap hook.

You may be starting with the face pointing at the target but may be rolling the clubface open on the back swing and then not returning it to square at impact.

GreeBo · 10-09-2014 10:33PM

stockdam wrote: »

If your natural shot is a fade and you cannot hit a draw then you will need a lot of practice. A draw is easiest by changing your setup. If you can hit a push but not a draw then strengthen your grip further. Also make sure that you place the club behind the ball and then grip; don't grip then turn your hands or you'll not strengthen your grip relative to the club face.

Also practice using a bit of forearm roll (to closed) through the ball. This may not work for you as it is hard to get the timing right. Too much and you may get a snap hook.

You may be starting with the face pointing at the target but may be rolling the clubface open on the back swing and then not returning it to square at impact.

do you not think that swingpath and setup are much more solid ways to move the ball rather than trying to adjust the (supposed to be) natural release, or worse, adjust your normal timing?

stockdam · 10-09-2014 11:31PM

GreeBo wrote: »

do you not think that swingpath and setup are much more solid ways to move the ball rather than trying to adjust the (supposed to be) natural release, or worse, adjust your normal timing?

Yes, I thought I implied that in my post.

GreeBo · 10-09-2014 11:49PM

stockdam wrote: »

Yes, I thought I implied that in my post.

Sorry, your "also practice forearm roll" seemed to imply you thought that's an equally good way.

SaveOurLyric · 10-09-2014 11:57PM

NFH wrote: »

Like most weekend golfers I hit a weak fade to slice, averaging about 250-270 yards.

WTF ? What weekend golfer are they ?

I, like most weekend golfers, over-estimate by about 60 yards how far I hit my drives.

m r c · 11-09-2014 01:45AM

Greebo you are wrong and right here. Shivas is spot on when he says the part of a modern driver that gives the maximum distance is actually not the "middle bit" or the centre of gravity or the commonly understood sweetspot.

It's slightly higher than the cg and slightly toward the toe. Depending on the club maybe up to 5 mm each way. No more on most heads and often less.

Reason for it is gear effect. The driver head has gear effect on both axis. Hitting slightly high on the vertical axis reduces spin(required to go further in almost all cases) and hitting more toward the toe tilts the spin axis to promote more of a draw shape (producing a shot shape which most things being equal gies further than a fade)

Those things are facts proven by physics as we understand them.

That's why greebo seems to be wrong based on his posts here as I read them. Why he's right is to hit that part of the club face consistently requires skill that only some pga tour pros have far from all of the best golfers in the world can hit that part of their driver consistently.
To be talking about it on a thread where someone wants to hit a push draw with their driver won't materially help him here. While true really the vast majority if handicap golfers wouldn't be better off from knowing this.

Where shivas point stands up IMHO is when trying to play a draw as a h/c golfer you were better off to be aware that you are far better off missing on the toe than the heel. In a draw setup hitting the heel will prob require a reload, so if you aren't going to hit center miss it on the toe side and you will be playing from the left side next shot.

Anyway hi boards haven't been on much lately hope ye are all well.

GreeBo · 11-09-2014 08:16AM

Again I never disagreed that the ball draws off the toe, I just don't think it's relevant any more than you can stop a ball on the green by hitting the flag. It's true, it's just impractical advice imo.

Also, the OP specifically says with longer clubs yet the focus is on driver only, the face of a rescue for example doesn't lend itself it aiming for the toe, the driver face is huge and much more forgiving for toe hits.

Can anyone give any links that prove a toe strike travels further? The route is moving faster but there are other factors at play cog for one. I'd like to see the maths that says it increases distance.

alxmorgan · 11-09-2014 09:18AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Again I never disagreed that the ball draws off the toe, I just don't think it's relevant any more than you can stop a ball on the green by hitting the flag. It's true, it's just impractical advice imo.

Also, the OP specifically says with longer clubs yet the focus is on driver only, the face of a rescue for example doesn't lend itself it aiming for the toe, the driver face is huge and much more forgiving for toe hits.

Can anyone give any links that prove a toe strike travels further? The route is moving faster but there are other factors at play cog for one. I'd like to see the maths that says it increases distance.

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2012/07/optimal-strike-point-for-longer-drives

GreeBo · 11-09-2014 09:29AM

alxmorgan wrote: »

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2012/07/optimal-strike-point-for-longer-drives

If thats where your toe is you need to go see a doctor.

He also ignores COG and a guy hitting shots in a field isnt exactly a scientific experiment with proof...

alxmorgan · 11-09-2014 09:38AM

GreeBo wrote: »

If thats where your toe is you need to go see a doctor.

He also ignores COG and a guy hitting shots in a field isnt exactly a scientific experiment with proof...

Shivas said it was a tiny bit towards the toe in fairness and I think the image bears that out. As to whether you can be that accurate is another debate

And to say it is a guy hitting shots in a field is OTT...Andrew Rice is using trackman data and I think you would agree he is well respected in the field (pun intended

)

GreeBo · 11-09-2014 09:42AM

alxmorgan wrote: »

Shivas said it was a tiny bit towards the toe in fairness and I think the image bears that out. As to whether you can be that accurate is another debate

And to say it is a guy hitting shots in a field is OTT...Andrew Rice is using trackman data and I think you would agree he is well respected in the field (pun intended )

Trackman records the results though, it has no bearing on the repeatibilty of the test. Thats what you need to prove something.
How many other factors are involved each time the guy in the field takes a swipe?
Its nothing against him, you could put Stephen Hawkings in a field and he wouldnt be able to produce a repeatable test/result either.

Scientific Method.

m r c · 11-09-2014 10:38AM

GreeBo wrote: »

If thats where your toe is you need to go see a doctor.

He also ignores COG and a guy hitting shots in a field isnt exactly a scientific experiment with proof...

Greebo, this whole thread when we mentioned toe we haven't been referring to the toe on your foot. Maybe you didnt understand this.

GreeBo · 11-09-2014 11:17AM

m r c wrote: »

Greebo, this whole thread when we mentioned toe we haven't been referring to the toe on your foot. Maybe you didnt understand this.

Why do you think a club has parts referred to as a toe and a heel?

FixdePitchmark · 11-09-2014 11:38AM

mrc welcome back, you havent missed much.

Axel Lamp · 11-09-2014 01:59PM

This is a swing i'm also trying to achieve. I'm struggling though with the transition from backswing to downswing.

No problems going back on the outside but struggle with trying to come back on the inside to outside path.

Any tips on this?

GreeBo · 11-09-2014 02:02PM

Axel Lamp wrote: »

This is a swing i'm also trying to achieve. I'm struggling though with the transition from backswing to downswing.

No problems going back on the outside but struggle with trying to come back on the inside to outside path.

Any tips on this?

Draw a line on your ball and have the line aiming in to out, try to hit the ball along the line.
It doesnt really matter how you get back, its how you swing down.
You can also just use any branding etc on the ball.
I used the opposite to promote a more downward, out to in (feeling) myself.

m r c · 11-09-2014 02:58PM

Axel Lamp wrote: »

This is a swing i'm also trying to achieve. I'm struggling though with the transition from backswing to downswing.

No problems going back on the outside but struggle with trying to come back on the inside to outside path.

Any tips on this?

Most likely nothing anyone writes here will give u the feeling or the keyword that makes it click for you. But I struggled with getting this ball flight in the past too.

What worked for me was this.

Forget all about the science known and unknown. To play this shot u need to be able to hit a push.
Place an alignment rod down at target and see how far right of target you can land your ball with say a 7 iron.
Get that going and make the exact same swings with more of a closed face you shoukd be seeing more of a push draw type of shot.

Experiment with this as much as u feel the need to or not. I will say that playing with this type of ball flight has its own problems too. It's not nirvana

Make sure its a push ie not tailing with a fade too btw when its landing to the right.

GreeBo · 11-09-2014 06:14PM

Another option is to use something like the inside approach.
Stick an empty plastic bottle just outside the target line a foot behind the ball, swinging to miss this but hit the ball will result in an in to out downswing. You may need to move it around a little to find the right spot for it, but it shoudnt go further outside than the target line.

stockdam · 11-09-2014 11:53PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry, your "also practice forearm roll" seemed to imply you thought that's an equally good way.

I said that "this may not work for you as it is hard to get the timing right" which means that it isn't as easy as adjusting your setup but it can also be used to close or to square up the club face at impact.

TheDoc · 15-09-2014 12:30PM

I'm kinda with Greebo here. If that picture is what people are calling the toe, well that's not the toe.

The initial discussion was referencing "toe" which is the furthest point forward on the club. I don't think that need's explaining.

What's being shown in that picture is probably still the sweetspot considering the size of them nowadays, but it's definitly not the toe.

And to even TRY and say that to try draw a ball, you should be looking to strike a ball at that spot is ludacrous. I think advice is better served describing or showing how to get on a draw swingplane, then try hit a specific spot on the face consistently.

What I will say however, as a draw hitter, I hit shots sometimes that "feel" like they came off the toe, and have a bit more of an exagerated draw flight. When when I look at the clubface after it's very clearly in the sweet spot, and it's just one of those things that feels different to what actually happened.

quagmire47 · 15-09-2014 03:44PM

NFH wrote: »

Like most weekend golfers I hit a weak fade to slice, averaging about 250-270 yards. I want to start hitting push draws with my longer clubs to get more distance.

I can hit a push draw with easy using long irons - strong grip, feet & shoulders aligned parallel to target line, ball close to center, club face open to target (1 o'clock if target is 12 o'clock) and club path hitting to 2 o'clock.

However, with woods and driver its not the same. I keep hitting pushes, the ball starts right and goes straight right but does not come back. It seems to me my club face is hitting the ball open as it should but I just am not getting enough of an in-to-out swing path with woods ot driver. Any suggestions, what do I need to do differently with my driver/woods to get the same push draw I can get with my irons? Cheers.

Wouldn't claim to be an authority of any kind on this kind of stuff but hitting up versus hitting down affects club path. This could be why you're having success with your long irons, as you probably hit down on these a lot more than with your woods.

Check out this video about Angle of Attack and Club Path. It might help

mytrackman.com/university/learning-tools/attack-angle--club-path

TheDoc · 15-09-2014 04:37PM

quagmire47 wrote: »

Wouldn't claim to be an authority of any kind on this kind of stuff but hitting up versus hitting down affects club path. This could be why you're having success with your long irons, as you probably hit down on these a lot more than with your woods.

Check out this video about Angle of Attack and Club Path. It might help

mytrackman.com/university/learning-tools/attack-angle--club-path

Was watching a guy last week who used to be a junior a few years younger then me. He hits down on the ball big time. Irons, chips, driver.

Gets this outragous penetrative flight, and was out driving me all day long, which is rare enough.

Was saying to my Da who was in the fourball I could watch him hit golf balls all day long. There is something incredible about seeing someone who absolutely bursts golf balls but yet has a smooth, controlled looking swing. Was nothing wild about it, it was gorgous. The spin he was getting on his irons and stuff was incredible.

Was farting about practising Friday past and was trying to do it, couldn't for the life of me get it. At best it was like a punch.

ShivasIrons · 15-09-2014 04:48PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm kinda with Greebo here. If that picture is what people are calling the toe, well that's not the toe.

The initial discussion was referencing "toe" which is the furthest point forward on the club. I don't think that need's explaining.

What's being shown in that picture is probably still the sweetspot considering the size of them nowadays, but it's definitly not the toe.

And to even TRY and say that to try draw a ball, you should be looking to strike a ball at that spot is ludacrous. I think advice is better served describing or showing how to get on a draw swingplane, then try hit a specific spot on the face consistently.

What I will say however, as a draw hitter, I hit shots sometimes that "feel" like they came off the toe, and have a bit more of an exagerated draw flight. When when I look at the clubface after it's very clearly in the sweet spot, and it's just one of those things that feels different to what actually happened.

The initial suggestion was towards the toe and not the toe. The picture is towards the toe.

To suggest to someone on how to get a draw with a driver by swing path and the face to path relationship only without referencing to strike point on the face would be an error.

Strike point on the clubface with the driver can and does override the club path and face to path relationship. It is a regular occurrence to hit the ball left to right with a club face closed to the path, this is due to gear effect and roll and bulge on the face.

For drives that are flying with the wrong shape, the first thing to correct is the strike point on the face and then the club path and face angle.

Also note that the sweet spot isn't always in the center of the face especially on clubs where the weight has been moved around.

TheDoc · 15-09-2014 04:56PM

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The initial suggestion was towards the toe and not the toe. The picture is towards the toe.

To suggest to someone on how to get a draw with a driver by swing path and the face to path relationship only without referencing to strike point on the face would be an error.

Strike point on the clubface with the driver can and does override the club path and face to path relationship. It is a regular occurrence to hit the ball left to right with a club face closed to the path, this is due to gear effect and roll and bulge on the face.

For drives that are flying with the wrong shape, the first thing to correct is the strike point on the face and then the club path and face angle.

Also note that the sweet spot isn't always in the center of the face especially on clubs where the weight has been moved around.

The only puzzled looks I had was the potential for the conversation to focus on the clubface/impact spot on face. For the OP who was asking how to go about doing it.

I could hit that spot I'm sure if you told me time after time after time with a little bit of practice. But there is more to a draw then that. I guess the point being there is multiple points to hitting a draw, like any shot, and some people probably emphasis some parts more then others.

Thinking about it, impact on clubface never entered the equation when I learned how to draw the ball as my default shot.

Advice On Hitting A Push Draw

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