Skinny Shaming

Da Shins Kelly

Two friends of mine were having a discussion about "skinny shaming" and whether it's really a valid problem to be placed alongside fat shaming. Points were made that slogans like "real women have curves" are just making naturally slim women feel bad about their bodies, which were countered by the argument that skinny shaming can be likened to reverse racism.

To me, I think they're two sides of the same coin really that seeks to just pit women against each other.

Just wondering if anyone here has experienced skinny shaming or do you think it's as bad as some people would have you believe?

(btw, the conversation arose out of Nicki Minaj's new music video in which she says "fcuk you skinny bitches" or words to that effect).

Das Kitty

I think it's disgusting to judge or shame anyone over how their body looks.

To me it says much more about the commenter and where they place value than anything else.

Neyite

There would be uproar if Nicky Minaj was singing "Fcuk you fat bitches" so there is an absolute double standard there. I would never dream of calling someone, anyone a fat bitch, even in jest, yet its acceptable to call me a skinny one as a joke, or sometimes not even a joke?

People are very quick to label anyone thin with an eating disorder - I remember threads here about the thigh-gap and dip between hipbones and a poster making a cyberdiagnois that the woman in the picture 'obviously has an eating disorder'.

I dont buy many magazines but I abhor the ones that 'weight-watch' celebs - one day theres a fabricated article on Angelina Jolie being unhealthily skinny then the next week there is a papped shot of her cellulite /wobbly belly.

And I hate the 'real woman have curves' sh!te. Like us skinny ones are not real because we dont have curves? Jesus, there is enough people putting down our gender without us doing it to each other too!

eviltwin

I would support the idea of making bigger women feel better about themselves and their bodies but it shouldn't be done at the expense of another person who is slim. As a big woman I don't need to make myself feel better by putting another woman down which is what it is. Its not the fault of the slim girls that I love cake All bodies are beautiful, none is perfect, the sooner we can accept that real women come in all sorts of packages the better.

DeltaWhite

Skinny shaming seriously boils my blood. I've been called every name under the sun, (whippet, scallion, stick, twig, anorexic etc. etc. etc.) and it's gone on for so long that when someone even mentions my weight my reaction is enough to stop them mentioning it again. :pac:

Here's the thing, I would never walk up to a curvy or overweight girl and say "jaysis, you've some weight on ya!" like the way women walk up to me almost daily and say "god, do you even eat?"

It's the SAME thing, it's offensive, it's insulting, and it's not something I want to hear from women (it's never men, how strange :rolleyes: )

I used to be on Facebook and HATED those stupid pictures, with Marilyn Monroe - Real Women have Curves.... what does that even mean? Seriously?

I was a lot more wimpy years ago, but I have a sharp tongue for women now that speak to me like that. Am I a bit defensive and cranky? Yes, but from putting up with these kind of comments over 12 years now, I wouldn't blame any woman who felt how I do still.

Honestly wish we could all just love ourselves for who we are, and keep out of others lives regarding image. It's hard to love yourself for the way you are, and how you look when you have these women dragging your size/image through the mud and making you feel about 2 inches tall.

As they say though, that's life. Toughen up and deal with it was the only option I had!


Have to add, I have also been questioned and interrogated about whether or not I have an eating disorder for years now and to me, that is an insult to any person who actually IS suffering with an eating disorder. It got to me so much that everytime I looked in the mirror, I believed there was something wrong with me. Thankfully, I developed SENSE and realised I'm not the one with the problem.

Wibbs

The joke's on the facebook types as Marilyn Monroe was tiny for most of her adult life. No way was she a "curvy woman".

Dolbert

Wibbs wrote: »

The joke's on the facebook types as Marilyn Monroe was tiny for most of her adult life. No way was she a "curvy woman".

She was curvy in the true sense of the word though, tiny waist with boobs and a butt, but still no bigger than a size 10.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

(btw, the conversation arose out of Nicki Minaj's new music video in which she says "fcuk you skinny bitches" or words to that effect).

This, along with the Dove 'real women' crap just screams of pandering tbh. I've been anything from a size 12 to a 20 in my adult life and it never occurred to me that it'd effect my realness as a woman

Neyite

Wibbs wrote: »

The joke's on the facebook types as Marilyn Monroe was tiny for most of her adult life. No way was she a "curvy woman".

Indeed. She was a 16 in clothes, but clothing sizes back then were vastly different to now. For instance, dressmaking uses the old measurements so though I'd be a size 8 in most retail shops, I can be a 16 in something I'd measure and cut out at home. Similarly for wedding dresses in shops - they use old sizing too, many a potential bride has had a bit of a shock when they see an 18 label when they have never been more than a 12.

baby and crumble

My mother was never bigger than a 10 all her life- typically she was an 8.

I, on the other hand, am much larger.

People used to comment a lot about how I "didn't look like your mother, anyway! Hahaha!!" We both knew exactly what they meant. And I remember once she was really upset because some random woman in our town walked right up to her and asked if she was "one of those anorexics". Like, right to her face! What are you meant to say to that???

People think it's a compliment to tell someone they're skinny. And they think it's an insult to say that they're fat. It's weird. I know I'm a lot bigger than many women, it doesn't make me better or worse. It just is what it is, like my mother was smaller than a lot of women. She hated it, but that was just her natural state.

I have no idea why people are so antagonistic towards each other. Fat, skinny, gay, whatever. How on earth it relates to you I do not know.

TL; DR- people should stop being so pass remarkable about everyone.

Stepping Stone

Truthfully, I don't see that kind of thing on Facebook but it could be a case of me regularly culling the annoying people.

In real life, the worst case of this that I have come across is from a woman who has serious body image issues and a suspected eating disorder (or at least a very unhealthy relationship with food).

One of my friends is tall and about a size 6-8. She is slim but she actually has a tiny frame and a good covering of flesh (sounds horrible but you get the picture). She eats like a horse, is in good enough health, apart from having high cholesterol, which she doesn't get from starving herself. All of her family are built the same but you wouldn't look at any of them and think too skinny (if that makes sense). They are just perfectly propotioned in their own way. She is extremely self conscious though. Super skinny jeans can be a bit baggy in areas, lots of clothes swim around her.

We have an acquaintance who is painfully thin (mentioned above). She is tall and big boned but she is constantly exercising, really has a thing about food and generally looks unwell. We have known her for years and as a teenager she also had issues with food and her body. She eats one meal a day on average and that certainly isn't a big one. Anyway, she is positively vicious about how disgusting my friend's body is. How it is tiny, withered and starved. Honestly, horrible stuff. I honestly don't know if it jealously or what but it is horrible.

I think that if you remember that real women have curves, but they also have big frames/ tiny frames/ slender arms/ tiny waists/ short legs/ big bums/ tiny bums/ bony knees/ ill defined ankles...everyone has a curvy skull if nothing else.

People are fast to judge and comment unfortunately about everything from appearance to the person that you love enough to want to be with for the rest of your life (or not).

Da Shins Kelly

Wibbs wrote: »

The joke's on the facebook types as Marilyn Monroe was tiny for most of her adult life. No way was she a "curvy woman".

The same is often said about Beyonce. I've seen her in the flesh and while she looks completely amazing and healthy and everything is in its right place, she is tiny. I'd be willing to bet she wears a smaller dress size than me, and I'm pretty small.

In terms of it being acceptable to skinny shame and not fat shame, I don't know that that's entirely true. The world is a much kinder place to slim people, I think that much can't be denied. Pretty much all forms of media feed us the perfectly slim body as part of the "ideal". Slim people can see people who represent them all around them all the time in film and pop music etc. The fashion industry still treats bigger women differently. Being slim is part of the accepted standard of beauty, at least in western cultures.

meeeeh

The reason nobody (or at least not fiends) would go to someone who is overweight and call them fat bitch or whatever is because you don't kick someone who is already down. I'm not denying that skinny people can get the wrong end of the stick but this is a bit like "what about men" argument. The skinny people in general have it nowhere near as hard as overweight people. In fact in most research that I know they come on top in social situations in comparison to overweight people. So skinny shaming is wrong and insulting but those who are overweight have it much worse.

Btw I hate the real women argument. In fact real women in those adds are real but also overweight.

meeeeh

Btw you know you are on top of the social ladder when it is not politically incorrect to make jokes or comments about your appearance.

Lyaiera

I don't like the way body image pride is being used as a way to compete for the right body. I'm over weight, I know I am and I'm still proud of myself. However my pride comes from who I am, not the way my body is. I think someone should never feel bad about the way they look, and to insult someone looks is the complete opposite of the supportive message body pride is supposed to be getting across.

Like I said, I'm overweight. I know I am. However I'm proud of myself and that means I have the confidence to address my over-weightness. People competing over what the right body is, whether that's a skinny body, curvy body, fat body, muscley body or toned body all seem to miss the point. The message should be that you have control over your body, and what makes you happy about your body is important. Whether that's having ripped muscles, or being curvy, or being skinny. That bodily autonomy exists for everyone and judgements shouldn't be made on anyone. And the only person that should be interested in your body is you, and the people who support your decisions on your body.

beks101

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

In terms of it being acceptable to skinny shame and not fat shame, I don't know that that's entirely true.

That's very true and I think that feeds into the general attitudes towards and discourse surrounding slim women.

Comments and criticisms are considered "fair game" because there's this general view that you've already won the race by being slim - you're already "living the dream" as it were, what could you possibly have to worry about?

I've noticed this any time I've slid up or down the weight scale - a few pounds over what is healthy for me and no-one says a thing, the comments, be they negative or positive, stop completely. A few pounds below and I'll spend a considerable amount of my day responding to compliments, remarks, criticisms, references to my weight and/or food choices, "how did you get so skinny?" "Don't lose any more weight!" "You look gorgeous/amazing/better than ever!" etc. It becomes a talking point because I had 'succeeded' at achieving an ideal weight.

To me it just reinforced this idea that the bigger you are, the more you 'disappear' socially on many fronts - in terms of competition amongst other women, desirability for many (NOT ALL, but definitely many) men, your social value, where you stand in the pecking order.

And that can be hurtful. It definitely doesn't for a second validate the spiteful, jealous, judgemental comments that can be directed at skinnier women, but to be rendered so invisible and inconsequential that someone wouldn't even dare to address your weight whereas the reverse is true if you've dropped a few pounds - it's not a nice feeling.

In an ideal world, no-one would feel the need to comment at all. It's rude, it's deeply personal, it's crossing a boundary and it's potentially a minefield for the person at the receiving end. But the silence can be deafening at the other end too.

Wibbs

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

The world is a much kinder place to slim people, I think that much can't be denied. Pretty much all forms of media feed us the perfectly slim body as part of the "ideal". Slim people can see people who represent them all around them all the time in film and pop music etc. The fashion industry still treats bigger women differently. Being slim is part of the accepted standard of beauty, at least in western cultures.

It pretty much holds in the majority of cultures. While the size considered desirable in women varies from culture to culture it doesn't vary that much and obese is rarely the ideal. And yep I'd agree with you, if you're slim you've "won" the social lottery, goes for men too*. As beks101 notes the fatter a woman is the more they tend to disappear socially.







*while men can often get away with being fat more than women as there is less societal pressure going on, you will see slim men going out with obese women, but the reverse is rarer.

IvyTheTerrible

beks101 wrote: »

I've noticed this any time I've slid up or down the weight scale - a few pounds over what is healthy for me and no-one says a thing, the comments, be they negative or positive, stop completely. A few pounds below and I'll spend a considerable amount of my day responding to compliments, remarks, criticisms, references to my weight and/or food choices, "how did you get so skinny?" "Don't lose any more weight!" "You look gorgeous/amazing/better than ever!" etc. It becomes a talking point because I had 'succeeded' at achieving an ideal weight.

God this is so true, at least in my experience.
I've just lost about two stone since the beginning of the year. I haven't been this weight since I was about 20 so none of the people I now know ever saw me this thin (not particularly thin but in the "normal" weight range).
I feel fantastic but it is unreal the amount of "Oh don't lose any more weight" or "Oh you're too skinny" comments I'm getting now. It's very annoying after a while. A few "You look nice" comments would be a change.

Inanna

How in the hell is "fat shaming" still a thing? No, really. It's not an immutable characteristic like race or sexuality. If you're fat, you either chose to be fat or you're among the small percentage of people who have innate conditions which cause it.

How about we rename it "taking responsibility for your own goddamned actions" shaming? Thin "privilege" my ass. Keeping yourself at a weight that's healthy for your age, height, etc. is something that should be lauded in a world where unhealthy food is so proselytized.

I'm not for one second saying fat people should be ridiculed but neither should it be seen as something that's good. Being overweight is not a good thing.

cookiexx

Inanna wrote: »

How in the hell is "fat shaming" still a thing? No, really. It's not an immutable characteristic like race or sexuality. If you're fat, you either chose to be fat or you're among the small percentage of people who have innate conditions which cause it.

How about we rename it "taking responsibility for your own goddamned actions" shaming? Thin "privilege" my ass. Keeping yourself at a weight that's healthy for your age, height, etc. is something that should be lauded in a world where unhealthy food is so proselytized.

I'm not for one second saying fat people should be ridiculed but neither should it be seen as something that's good. Being overweight is not a good thing.

Who are you to say whats healthy and right for an individual? My "unhealthily skinny" would be perfectly healthy to someone else who has a different frame and body shape because I simply cant maintain a low BMI without starving myself and losing my mind.

Im not fat either, but understand the battle that many women go through in keeping their weigt down not just physically but mentally, emotionally, psychologically.

I don't believe in the glorification of it either, I think this "real women have curves" bullsh1t is just as bad as demonizing and commenting upon skinny women, but I dont think it's up to any of us to judge and decide what is right or upstanding for somebody else when it comes to something as individual and personal as body weight

Inanna

cookiexx wrote: »

Who are you to say whats healthy and right for an individual?

Hello, would you like to meet my friends heart disease and high cholesterol? I'm sure I can find any number of medical professionals--y'know, people who actually study human physiology and nutrition for a living--who can tell you what is healthy and right for an individual.

My "unhealthily skinny" would be perfectly healthy to someone else who has a different frame and body shape

Inanna wrote: »

Keeping yourself at a weight that's healthy for your age, height, etc.

Im not fat either, but understand the battle that many women go through in keeping their weigt down not just physically but mentally, emotionally, psychologically.

And I don't believe in coddling people about the dangers that come from being overweight. Denial and warm feelings won't save them. It's the exact same group that has given us "thin privilege" and criticising anyone who's within a healthy weight.

I don't believe in the glorification of it either, I think this "real women have curves" bullsh1t is just as bad as demonizing and commenting upon skinny women, but I dont think it's up to any of us to judge and decide what is right or upstanding for somebody else when it comes to something as individual and personal as body weight

... Except when medical science butts in and says "actually, you're at higher risk for x,y and z".

No, I'm not buying into this "everyone's choice is okay and none of them are better than any other" when we can look at it from an objective standpoint and say that yes, there are some that are demonstrably better. People should be free to live their lives as they please, absolutely, but that doesn't change the facts and it does not behoove anyone to deny them for the sake of hurt feelings.

Repeating myself: I'm not saying fat people should be ridiculed but neither should it be seen as something that's a point of pride. Being at a weight that is unhealthy is just that - unhealthy.

cookiexx

So what then, "tell it like it is" with every overweight person you come into contact with? Do you think that would work on you, to be constantly lauded and reminded about how much of a risk you're putting yourself at, being sung a sonnet about high cholesterol and heart disease at every turn?

Most fat people know they're fat and are perfectly aware of the consequences of remaining so. Most experience enough shaming socially, ostracisation, mockery, ignoring, judgement, disdainful looks, name-calling etc without needing a recital of how unhealthy and wrong and downright stupid their lifestyle choice is. It's not up to you or anyone to "arm them with the facts". They have free will, just as you do.

And skinny people can have high cholesterol and high risk of heart disease too.

Inanna

cookiexx wrote: »

So what then, "tell it like it is" with every overweight person you come into contact with? Do you think that would work on you, to be constantly lauded and reminded about how much of a risk you're putting yourself at, being sung a sonnet about high cholesterol and heart disease at every turn?

I don't believe I actually said any of that but what the hell, let's just make whatever wild extrapolations we want to make the other person look terrible, right?

Most fat people know they're fat and are perfectly aware of the consequences of remaining so. Most experience enough shaming socially, ostracisation, mockery, ignoring, judgement, disdainful looks, name-calling etc without needing a recital of how unhealthy and wrong and downright stupid their lifestyle choice is. It's not up to you or anyone to "arm them with the facts". They have free will, just as you do.

And skinny people can have high cholesterol and high risk of heart disease too.

Okay.

meeeeh

One of my boyfriends best friends is very skinny despite eating a pile of rubbish. When he goes to the cashier with the bottle of lucozade and three chocolates for himself people will assume he is buying stuff for two people. But people wil comment on how skinny or slim he is. When my partner gets to the cashier with two sandwiches (one for me) he gets the looks I can't believe he is gonna eat two sandwiches. But nobody comments on his apperance. Howevere I did get a few comments why are you with him (I'm not skinny but I am in healthy range) because why would anybody want to be with the fat one. Since his weight is the only quality that defines him. :rolleyes:

I do believe that skinny shaming exists and is unpleasant but to be insulted because there is no disclaimer that skinny women are real women too is a bit precious attitude. I haven't seen any disclaimers in Vougue that fat people also wear clothes because you certainly wouldn't get that impression browsing throug it.

Overweight people shouldn't be invisible, they should be able to get clothes and everybody should be treated with respect. But on the other side the real people argument is bad. Not because it discriminates against skinny people but because it makes unhealthy living style "normal".

retro:electro

I was in penneys the other day and went to pick up a packet of briefs in the knicker area. This busy body comes over from the other side of the stand and looked at the size of the packet I had in my hand (10-12 as I always am in briefs) and says "you're never that size are ya, sure there isn't a pick on ya they'll be swimming on ya". Honestly I was so shocked and my natural reaction was to laugh because I couldn't actually believe she just said that. It wasn't until a few minutes later I realised how utterly inappropriate she was. I'm in and around a size 10 and have been for most if my adult life.

I'm happy with my size, sure there's things I dislike but I don't ever obsess over anything. But what if she has said that to someone who wasn't so comfortable with themselves? What made her think that was okay? To me it is the same as saying to an overweight person "Jesus those knickers you have there would never fit you you'll need a bigger size you're huge". There's no difference, an inappropriate weight comment is an inappropriate weight comment.

This also makes me remember being in school and a girl said to me "oh your weight is fine, but any skinnier than you and that's bad", this comment upset me and I remember thinking imagine if it was the other way around and she said "any fatter than you and that's bad". I just don't understand why one is deemed socially acceptable and the other not. Any kind of body shaming/ridiculing/derision is not okay.

TheBeardedLady

[/QUOTE]Hello, would you like to meet my friends heart disease and high cholesterol? I'm sure I can find any number of medical professionals--y'know, people who actually study human physiology and nutrition for a living--who can tell you what is healthy and right for an individual.[/QUOTE]

I can't quote your post properly as I'm new but do you really, REALLY think you're saying anything that people don't already know? Really? Why the sarcasm btw? Totally uncalled for and unnecessary.







[/QUOTE]And I don't believe in coddling people about the dangers that come from being overweight. Denial and warm feelings won't save them. It's the exact same group that has given us "thin privilege" and criticising anyone who's within a healthy weight.



... Except when medical science butts in and says "actually, you're at higher risk for x,y and z".

No, I'm not buying into this "everyone's choice is okay and none of them are better than any other" when we can look at it from an objective standpoint and say that yes, there are some that are demonstrably better. People should be free to live their lives as they please, absolutely, but that doesn't change the facts and it does not behoove anyone to deny them for the sake of hurt feelings.

Repeating myself: I'm not saying fat people should be ridiculed but neither should it be seen as something that's a point of pride. Being at a weight that is unhealthy is just that - unhealthy.[/QUOTE]

No one is talking about "coddling" anyone though, they're simply saying, "Keep your nose out of it". Don't comment at all unless they are a good friend or family member and you are genuinely coming at it from a place of genuine concern (which I rarely see on any of the kinds of discussions on weight online) and do it with the fact that the person in front of you is human with all the sensitivity and emotions that goes along with that in mind. Sounds fair to me.


All these people who mouth off on the internet about we should take off the kid gloves when dealing with overweight people actually wouldn't dare say a word in real life and if they do, it rarely comes from a good place.


People don't have to be arseholes about it whether the person is skinny or fat. Making people feel **** about themselves is counterproductive. It doesn't do anyone any good. You won't bully anyone into making changes. Keep your shrón out of it would be my advice unless you actually DO care and you know the meaning of the word "tact".

TheBeardedLady

[/QUOTE]Hello, would you like to meet my friends heart disease and high cholesterol? I'm sure I can find any number of medical professionals--y'know, people who actually study human physiology and nutrition for a living--who can tell you what is healthy and right for an individual.[/QUOTE]

I can't quote your post properly as I'm new but do you really, REALLY think you're saying anything that people don't already know? Really? Why the sarcasm btw? Totally uncalled for and unnecessary.







[/QUOTE]And I don't believe in coddling people about the dangers that come from being overweight. Denial and warm feelings won't save them. It's the exact same group that has given us "thin privilege" and criticising anyone who's within a healthy weight.



... Except when medical science butts in and says "actually, you're at higher risk for x,y and z".

No, I'm not buying into this "everyone's choice is okay and none of them are better than any other" when we can look at it from an objective standpoint and say that yes, there are some that are demonstrably better. People should be free to live their lives as they please, absolutely, but that doesn't change the facts and it does not behoove anyone to deny them for the sake of hurt feelings.

Repeating myself: I'm not saying fat people should be ridiculed but neither should it be seen as something that's a point of pride. Being at a weight that is unhealthy is just that - unhealthy.[/QUOTE]

No one is talking about "coddling" anyone though, they're simply saying, "Keep your nose out of it". Don't comment at all unless they are a good friend or family member and you are genuinely coming at it from a place of genuine concern (which I rarely see on any of the kinds of discussions on weight online) and do it with the fact that the person in front of you is human with all the sensitivity and emotions that goes along with that in mind. Sounds fair to me.


All these people who mouth off on the internet about we should take off the kid gloves when dealing with overweight people actually wouldn't dare say a word in real life and if they do, it rarely comes from a good place and never does anyone good bar make the person feel worse about themselves.


People don't have to be arseholes about it whether the person is skinny or fat. Making people feel **** about themselves is counterproductive. It doesn't do anyone any good. You won't bully anyone into making changes. Keep your shrón out of it would be my advice unless you actually DO care and you know the meaning of the word "tact".

Da Shins Kelly

Yeah, I think most people with weight problems realize that they have a problem with getting "advice" from people who don't really know what they're talking about, but still think that it's their place to talk freely and critically. I wonder do the same people walk up to smokers or drinkers or people who use drugs recreationally and give their two cents about the damaging effects of those kinds of lifestyles or is it just because being fat is a little less socially acceptable than going to the pub and getting loaded every weekend?

meeeeh

I used to smoke and yes people do give you advice. Ex smokers in are the worst in general. But I remember a first date with a guy I didn't really like. He told me I should really stop smoking because he doesn't want to be in a relationship with a smoker. I thought to myself that won't be a problem and tried not to yawn too obviously for the rest of the evening.

Da Shins Kelly

meeeeh wrote: »

I used to smoke and yes people do give you advice. Ex smokers in are the worst in general. But I remember a first date with a guy I didn't really like. He told me I should really stop smoking because he doesn't want to be in a relationship with a smoker. I thought to myself that won't be a problem and tried not to yawn too obviously for the rest of the evening.

So did I, so I know what people say. I don't think it's as bad as how people treat those with weight problems though. I think most people realize that smoking is an addiction that takes effort to bring under control, and while some will still say "I don't like smoking" or "I won't go out with a smoker", you're not going to be pushed to the peripherals like a fat person might be. Smoking is a very social habit too that is often part of the fabric of a night out or what have you. While I heard a bit of "smoking is horrible", I never felt ostracized or terribly hurt by anything people were saying.

I think people with weight issues are judged a lot more harshly. There's a lot of "get over it"/"just stop eating so much"/etc. kind of attitudes that don't appreciate the complexities that often go along with food issues.

Lyaiera

I do wonder if all this commenting is based on people's lack of healthy discussion about diet and weight. And how ingrained the idea of having a perfect body is to culture, especially women.

For example, I'm over weight, but my friends support me in my attempts to lose weight. Last night in the pub they saw one of my supermarket receipts and "gave out" to me about what I was buying. I had no problem with that, I know these people really well and I appreciated the support from them, it's nothing I wouldn't think myself. But they didn't comment on my weight, they didn't tell me I was an awful person, they were genuinely just being helpful. Another part of that conversation was worrying about a friend (flatmate to two others there) and her not eating properly when they were away. It's not a huge issue, but it is expressing concern that she looks after herself.

I find these types of conversation perfectly normal, they're a part of being friends with someone and I wonder if people become isolated and can't verbalise what their opinions are on diet, health, weight, etc. and it just comes out as stock, and sometimes offensive cliches. Maybe people really do need people they can honestly talk to about these issues?

Inanna

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I can't quote your post properly as I'm new but do you really, REALLY think you're saying anything that people don't already know? Really? Why the sarcasm btw? Totally uncalled for and unnecessary.

Because the whole "fat shaming" thing is full of some of the most obnoxious idiots I've come across. The kind of people who object to hearing that maybe being overweight isn't exactly all that healthy.

Look, I'm gay. I get a lot of **** for that (far worse than these people have ever had to put up with) and I didn't have any choice in the matter. I didn't take any actions that led to me becoming gay. Yet I see these gormless wonders in the "fat shaming" movement going on about how hard they have it and isn't it awful what they have to put up with?

It pisses me off that they complain about the consequences of something they chose. And just so we're clear (because I can already envision the kinds of objections I'll meet) I'm talking about consequences that can reasonably be foreseen.

No one is talking about "coddling" anyone though, they're simply saying, "Keep your nose out of it". Don't comment at all unless they are a good friend or family member and you are genuinely coming at it from a place of genuine concern (which I rarely see on any of the kinds of discussions on weight online) and do it with the fact that the person in front of you is human with all the sensitivity and emotions that goes along with that in mind. Sounds fair to me.

I never said anything about sticking one's nose into others' business but I don't like how certain people are telling others being fat is normal and that they shouldn't try to change who they are. Such people don't need reinforcement of their bad habits they need to be educated in how they can help themselves and why they should.

That's all. Just so it's explicitly clear: I'm not advocating going up to random people and calling them up on being fat.

Penny Tration

Inanna wrote: »

Because the whole "fat shaming" thing is full of some of the most obnoxious idiots I've come across. The kind of people who object to hearing that maybe being overweight isn't exactly all that healthy.

Look, I'm gay. I get a lot of **** for that (far worse than these people have ever had to put up with) and I didn't have any choice in the matter. I didn't take any actions that led to me becoming gay. Yet I see these gormless wonders in the "fat shaming" movement going on about how hard they have it and isn't it awful what they have to put up with?

It pisses me off that they complain about the consequences of something they chose. And just so we're clear (because I can already envision the kinds of objections I'll meet) I'm talking about consequences that can reasonably be foreseen.



I never said anything about sticking one's nose into others' business but I don't like how certain people are telling others being fat is normal and that they shouldn't try to change who they are. Such people don't need reinforcement of their bad habits they need to be educated in how they can help themselves and why they should.

That's all. Just so it's explicitly clear: I'm not advocating going up to random people and calling them up on being fat.

You don't know what fat people have had to put up with, so you can't say you have it worse because you're gay.

It's not always an informed choice. At my worst, i was 5'1 and 23 stone. Yes, 23 stone.

I gained that much weight for two reasons - weight gain associated with the cocktail of medication I was on, and deliberately trying to make myself as unattractive to men as possible, after being raped (which is what I was on the cocktail of meds for). Hardly a rational decision.

What I experienced over my weight - 'fat' comments every day. Being egged. Having rocks thrown at me. Being told 'Oh this medication for your PCOS will make you feel sick, so you won't eat, which will help (stellar advice from a consultant - don't eat). Being constantly laughed at in work because it took me about a minute longer to climb the 6 flights of stairs to the canteen. Being told by colleagues that I obviously loved fast food. Being asked when I was due. Being asked were my breasts real.

You have no idea what issues lead to a person being overweight. I'm half the weight I was, and it was a hell of a fcuking struggle to get to that.

The ONLY time I started to consistently lose weight was when my friends and family supported me, instead of slagging me off.

Being gay isn't a choice? So what? For a lot of obese people, being that obese isn't a choice either, not a rational one. Just like for anorexics, it's not a rational choice, and for naturally petite people, it's not a choice.

How about we just stop shaming PEOPLE, whatever their size?

Lia_lia

DeltaWhite wrote: »

Have to add, I have also been questioned and interrogated about whether or not I have an eating disorder for years now and to me, that is an insult to any person who actually IS suffering with an eating disorder. It got to me so much that everytime I looked in the mirror, I believed there was something wrong with me. Thankfully, I developed SENSE and realised I'm not the one with the problem.

I sometimes get that. I'm always quite slim, but in times of stress I always lose loads of weight. Last year in my final year of college my weight went quite low, but I was still healthy. I just have feck all appetite when I am stressed so naturally I lose weight.. Anyway, last year I was on a night out and a friend of a friend pulled me over to one side and was all "I know you have an eating disorder, I do too" whilst pouring her heart out to me...didn't know what to do!

One thing that really annoys me is that when people are trying to lose weight, they refuse to take my advice. Even if they are actively asking for advice. And the reason I always get back is "sure you've always been skinny, what would you know about losing weight?" Errr, how do they think I am slim? From not knowing how to eat properly?

TheBeardedLady

Inanna wrote: »

Because the whole "fat shaming" thing is full of some of the most obnoxious idiots I've come across. The kind of people who object to hearing that maybe being overweight isn't exactly all that healthy.

Look, I'm gay. I get a lot of **** for that (far worse than these people have ever had to put up with) and I didn't have any choice in the matter. I didn't take any actions that led to me becoming gay. Yet I see these gormless wonders in the "fat shaming" movement going on about how hard they have it and isn't it awful what they have to put up with?

It pisses me off that they complain about the consequences of something they chose. And just so we're clear (because I can already envision the kinds of objections I'll meet) I'm talking about consequences that can reasonably be foreseen.



I never said anything about sticking one's nose into others' business but I don't like how certain people are telling others being fat is normal and that they shouldn't try to change who they are. Such people don't need reinforcement of their bad habits they need to be educated in how they can help themselves and why they should.

That's all. Just so it's explicitly clear: I'm not advocating going up to random people and calling them up on being fat.

Listen, there's no "fat shaming movement" here, it's just a group of women discussing the rude comments they've had to put up with because of their appearance. I'm sorry to hear you've had to put up with **** because of your sexuality and that's absolutely horrible and having been bullied myself in my teens, I know how horrible it is, so although I'm not overweight myself and have never had weight issues, I have empathy with others because I know how hurtful it is.

The majority of comments that people have discussed here have not been constructive criticism or comments made by concerned family members (etc.) in order to help the person with the weight problem but people who've overstepped the line and butted in without

You can see the venom from so many people directed at overweight people on this very forum and I can understand why the latter get defensive and put the guard up. It's a perfectly human why to deal with being bullied (because the vaaaaaast majority of comments I read are bullying).

Perhaps the constructive crticism gets lost in there somewhere because the fact that most of the criticism is bullying and can you really blame the defensiveness if you see it from their POV?


With all due respect, the obnoxious people who you speak of in your first paragraph can't be found in this thread, so I'm not seeing the justification for your posts tbh.

Hate to state the obvious here but most people with weight problems know they have one and want to change.

eviltwin

The issue I've had is not that people are trying to support me losing weight, that is fine, its the other stuff. I've had people shout at me in public and call me fatty or make fat jokes or call me a fat bitch, I've been refused entry to a bar because of it, called an ugly fat cow for turning down a bloke in a club and had the Pretty Woman moment in some shops...none of that made me feel encouraged to lose weight, it made me feel worthless.

Yes I'm in that position because of actions I've taken but that doesn't make it okay to be rude.

pwurple

I remember a long time ago, first year in college. I was chatting to some people after a class. One of them complimented me, saying something like, "oh you have a great figure". I said thanks, and one of the girls in the group was throwing me DAGGERS. So the guy turned around and said to her, "oh don't worry, she's no threat to you, she has no tits".

I laughed it off at the time, but cripes that stung. A LOT of padded bras were purchased from that moment on.

I'd never comment on someone's shape, other than to say 'you look great'.

Shakespeare's Sister

Comments to a person about how thin they are tend to come from a place of envy, unlike comments about a person being overweight, so I agree they're not two sides of the same coin.
But still, passing negative/accusatory remarks on a person's appearance is of course unacceptable.

cookiexx wrote: »

Who are you to say whats healthy and right for an individual?

Well there is obviously a point at which someone's weight isn't healthy. Lots of things are subjective but that isn't one of them.

Not that I'd be saying it to their face as it is none of my business, but it's not unreasonable to say, generally speaking, that there is an unhealthy way to live in terms of diet.

Shakespeare's Sister

pwurple wrote: »

I remember a long time ago, first year in college. I was chatting to some people after a class. One of them complimented me, saying something like, "oh you have a great figure". I said thanks, and one of the girls in the group was throwing me DAGGERS. So the guy turned around and said to her, "oh don't worry, she's no threat to you, she has no tits".

Mind = officially blown.

The Cool

I don't know what the logic is in saying "Real women have curves" and the like.
How to be a real woman:
1) Be a living human being.
2) Be female.
Ta-dah!


It's not a million miles from "real men don't cry" or "real men hold the door open for women" and the like which is also incredibly insulting.

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, stuff that goes in their favour and some kind of shít to deal with. People talking that kind of bollox need to get over themselves.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I've always been fairly slim and I do get comments occasionally. I also lose weight pretty easily and lose my appetite if I'm stressed or upset and I definitely get more comments during those times (which is of course, massively helpful). I wouldn't compare "skinny shaming" with the real deal; I can go about my life and not really have to think about my size or be ashamed of my body for the vast majority of the time, from what I can gather that's really not the scenario for overweight people. But, skinny shaming does happen and it has influenced how I relate to people a small bit.

I found it more prevalent in school and the earlier years of college, I guess there's more "competition" between girls at that age and people are more conscious of appearance generally. I'm actually slimmer now than I was at around 17 or 18 but I can remember the digs about my size being much more of a problem then than they are now.

I'm fairly happy with my body these days, I'm skinny enough but I have a kind of broad frame, I've come to accept that I'll never have a teeny waist or much in the way of cleavage. I'm still very wary of getting into conversations about body image or weight IRL though because I don't want to have people turn around with "sure what would you know about it" "feck off you skinny bitch" etc. The other thing (I have a feeling this might come across as really big-headed but it's not intended like that) is that if a friend or relative has gained weight or is trying to lose weight I get a bit paranoid that being around me is going to make them feel bad. Years of comments like "Ugh, I could never wear that, looking at you makes me feel sick" and being told I'm not allowed into conversations about body image have kind of accumulated and made me react less than rationally to stuff.

Das Kitty

I think the "unhealthy" excuse for judging people who are overweight is a poor one.

Weight is only one indicator of a person's overall health, the fact that it is the most visible one is not to say it's the most significant one. In fact I would wager that a good portion of the people who complain about the unhealthiness of fat people are they themselves just as unhealthy in another way.

I dunno. We're each given this cool meat robot that does the most amazing things, and still we get hung up on what our awesome robots look like in comparison to other people's ones.

Shakespeare's Sister

I don't get this - being overweight is unhealthy, just like smoking and being underweight are unhealthy. There's no two ways about it.
I've put on weight recently due to being on steroids and I have no issue with acknowledging it's not healthy and I'd be healthier if I got the excess weight off. I feel it in my energy levels and fitness, and frankly I hate it.

It doesn't matter about it just being one indicator of unhealthy or if those who point it out could be unhealthy (maybe they're not?) it's simply not unreasonable or incorrect to say its unhealthy.

Das Kitty

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

I don't get this - being overweight is unhealthy, just like smoking and being underweight are unhealthy. There's no two ways about it.
I've put on weight recently due to being on steroids and I have no issue with acknowledging it's not healthy and I'd be healthier if I got the excess weight off. I feel it in my energy levels and fitness, and frankly I hate it.

It doesn't matter about it just being one indicator of unhealthy or if those who point it out could be unhealthy (maybe they're not?) it's simply not unreasonable or incorrect to say its unhealthy.

I wasn't talking about statement of fact. I was talking about judging and shaming people based on their appearance.

Some people who do this to overweight people, wheel out the excuse that the person is unhealthy so they have the right to say what they like. I just think that is a poor excuse for being unkind to others.

eviltwin

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

I don't get this - being overweight is unhealthy, just like smoking and being underweight are unhealthy. There's no two ways about it.
I've put on weight recently due to being on steroids and I have no issue with acknowledging it's not healthy and I'd be healthier if I got the excess weight off. I feel it in my energy levels and fitness, and frankly I hate it.

It doesn't matter about it just being one indicator of unhealthy or if those who point it out could be unhealthy (maybe they're not?) it's simply not unreasonable or incorrect to say its unhealthy.

The problem if your're overweight is that you wear your weakness, there are other things that are unhealthy, not just from a physical point of view but a mental one as well but they are easier to hide. Its not the first thing everyone notices about you. No one is saying overweight people shouldn't have a lecture but if losing weight was that easy we'd all be slim. Every big person knows they need to eat less and move more but its actually making that happen that is the hard part, the mental part of it is the key and all the lectures or guilt tripping in the world won't change that.

Lyaiera

Das Kitty wrote: »

I wasn't talking about statement of fact. I was talking about judging and shaming people based on their appearance.

Some people who do this to overweight people, wheel out the excuse that the person is unhealthy so they have the right to say what they like. I just think that is a poor excuse for being unkind to others.

And it really annoys me because it does nothing to help that person who is overweight. As was pointed out the vast majority of overweight people know it's not healthy and the problem is finding the ability to lose the weight. It's why self-pride messages are so important. If someone has the strength of mind to know they are a good person, and a strong person, no matter their weight, or no matter what people say to them then it becomes a lot easier to live a healthy life.

I know this for a fact myself. As my life started getting back in order after a hugely turbulent decade I started losing weight. I was finally proud of myself as a person and that made it much easier to lose my hugely over weight pounds. I'm still not at a weight I would deem healthy, I've had set backs and ups and downs but knowing I am a good person, and that my weight has nothing to do with whether I'm a good person makes it a lot easier to find the confidence to lose weight.

I'm sure people with eating disorders, or simply people who want to put on a few pounds for health or appearances sake, or anyone who wants to live a healthy life would do so much more easily if they weren't being judged and people were helping them be happy and confident without talking about their weight.

fillefatale

eviltwin wrote: »

The issue I've had is not that people are trying to support me losing weight, that is fine, its the other stuff. I've had people shout at me in public and call me fatty or make fat jokes or call me a fat bitch, I've been refused entry to a bar because of it, called an ugly fat cow for turning down a bloke in a club and had the Pretty Woman moment in some shops...none of that made me feel encouraged to lose weight, it made me feel worthless.

Yes I'm in that position because of actions I've taken but that doesn't make it okay to be rude.

This article my mate wrote on body positivity/fat shaming is great: http://smokintofu.com/2014/08/28/body-positivity-****-your-fatkini-handwringing/

Tarzana

Wibbs wrote: »

The joke's on the facebook types as Marilyn Monroe was tiny for most of her adult life. No way was she a "curvy woman".

Well, not tiny, she flitted between a size 8 and size 12 going by modern measurements. She had a tiny waist though. (As did women in general 50 years ago. Even modern playboy models would have far less cinched waists than their counterparts of the 50s, 60s and 70s) But the bust and hip measurements were in the 8-12 range. So, in keeping with a lot of Irish women.

Tarzana

Dolbert wrote: »

This, along with the Dove 'real women' crap just screams of pandering tbh.

Hated those ads. And it's wasn't just pandering for the sake of making bigger women feel better about themselves, it was pandering so that bigger women would think Dove were really right-on with the effect of increasing revenue for Dove. It was an entirely cynical, money-making endeavour.

Tarzana

meeeeh wrote: »

Btw you know you are on top of the social ladder when it is not politically incorrect to make jokes or comments about your appearance.

Very astute point. Making people feel bad for being slim is really awful, but not a hope do slim people have it worse than overweight people.

Dolbert

Tarzana wrote: »

Hated those ads. And it's wasn't just pandering for the sake of making bigger women feel better about themselves, it was pandering so that bigger women would think Dove were really right-on with the effect of increasing revenue for Dove. It was an entirely cynical, money-making endeavour.

Yeah, it was and is completely cynical.

Tarzana

Dolbert wrote: »

Yeah, it was and is completely cynical.

Do those ads still exist? I never read magazines now, don't have a telly service, and never watched ads for the last few years even when I did, due to pausing then fast-forwarding through them.