Irish UN Soldiers help to rescue Filipino Peacekeepers who are Under Fire

archer22

allroad wrote: »

The Filipino troops seem to have acquitted themselves very well.
I'm sure they feel a bit miffed at being described as "saved".
Filipino media is certainly downplaying any role Irish troops had in the operation.

Indeed, the Filipinos are very surprised to learn that they were "saved"!.The only people I have heard them give credit to are Assad's forces who helped them with artillery support during the battle.
The Filipino's are battle hardened veterans of the Mindanao conflict and well able to take care of themselves..as they have shown.

Nodin

archer22 wrote: »

Indeed, the Filipinos are very surprised to learn that they were "saved"!.The only people I have heard them give credit to are Assad's forces who helped them with artillery support during the battle.
The Filipino's are battle hardened veterans of the Mindanao conflict and well able to take care of themselves..as they have shown.

The indo isn't the kind of paper to use 'help facilitate an orderly withdrawal' where 'saved'/'rescued' or other short tabloidisms are available.

Bull76

The Irish have and hopefully will have a very long history of peace keeping. The countries in which they have been have welcomed them for who they are. There has been issues but these have been worked out. It's good to see our troops doing exactly as they are trained and we as a nation should be extremely proud of what they do and have done.

Our polticians shouldn't be looking at withdrawing this force, infact they should be reviewing the next deployment and send out more of our professional soldiers.

I for one think they performed as they were meant to do. they are doing a peacekeeping role but acting as a reserve force. Which will have them going into risky envirnoments and returning fire. They are well trained and drilled for that. Let them be and do there job.

John Mongo

archer22 wrote: »

Indeed, the Filipinos are very surprised to learn that they were "saved"!.The only people I have heard them give credit to are Assad's forces who helped them with artillery support during the battle.
The Filipino's are battle hardened veterans of the Mindanao conflict and well able to take care of themselves..as they have shown.

The Fillipino's in Postion 68 were the ones who recieved artillery support from Assad's forces before they eventually left their Position on foot during the night before they could be overrun or the Force Mobile Reserve got to them. Nobody is saying Irish troops saved them.

Irish troops got the Fillipino's in Position 69 out of trouble.

Buona Fortuna

Wicklowrider wrote: »

At last?
Could you do me a favour and look up the Siege of Jadoville?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville

Thanks for that link.

The guy in charge of the opposition was Irish!

Wicklowrider

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Thanks for that link.

The guy in charge of the opposition was Irish!

if you want to read more on this I'd recommend

Michael Whelan's "The Battle of Jadoville"

David O' Donahue's " The Irish Army in the Congo"

Declan Power's "Siege of Jadoville"

also if anyone can get their hands on a book called "Under the Blue Flag" I'd highly recommend it as an easy read history of un involvement up to the '80's.

My name is URL

Coveney on Newstalk earlier -

“Irish involvement in my view is crucial to this mission so I’m not going to pull our troops out without the opportunity for the UN to fundamentally review the overall mission, how it’s operating and to give us the assurances that we’re asking for,”

http://www.newstalk.ie/Defence-Minister-reassures-families-that-Irish-peacekeepers-are-safe

Surely he should be seeking assurances from the warring sides that they will not target peacekeepers? Syria obviously isn't doing enough to stop rebels from drawing the peacekeepers into their civil war.

What exactly can the UN do that they're not already doing to insure the safety of UNDOF members?

John Mongo

My name is URL wrote: »

Coveney on Newstalk earlier -



http://www.newstalk.ie/Defence-Minister-reassures-families-that-Irish-peacekeepers-are-safe

Surely he should be seeking assurances from the warring sides that they will not target peacekeepers? Syria obviously isn't doing enough to stop rebels from drawing the peacekeepers into their civil war.

What exactly can the UN do that they're not already doing to insure the safety of UNDOF members?

Review the mandate and make it more robust.

More firepower, more equipment and plug the gap that the Fillipinos are gonna leave behind in October.

Gatling

My name is URL wrote: »

Coveney on Newstalk earlier -



http://www.newstalk.ie/Defence-Minister-reassures-families-that-Irish-peacekeepers-are-safe

Surely he should be seeking assurances from the warring sides that they will not target peacekeepers? Syria obviously isn't doing enough to stop rebels from drawing the peacekeepers into their civil war.

What exactly can the UN do that they're not already doing to insure the safety of UNDOF members?

They should actively trying to secure aircover should it be required for troops ,
The Syrian rebels can get there hands on fairly heavy firepower ,
But it seems in this case if they were looking for the UN peacekeepers to surrender arms and ammunition they must be amateur fighters ,
Id be more worried if Isis decided to make a move on the boarder

My name is URL

John Mongo wrote: »

Review the mandate and make it more robust.

More firepower, more equipment and plug the gap that the Fillipinos are gonna leave behind in October.

Are they not already rather well equipped for a peacekeeping contingent though? I know they don't have air support, but I can't really see the UN introducing it at this stage. Surely if they were going to do that they would have done so when the Austrians decided to pull out after 40 years of presence in the area. I mean that was a real signal that shit was going down hill, and it's only gotten worse since.

If the UN upgrade the mandate to allow for more relaxed RoE, then doesn't that run the risk of changing things from peacekeeping to 'peacemaking'. I don't know if that would be a great idea given the deteriorating situation in Syria, with new militant groups emerging on an almost weekly basis. Sounds like it might be a bit futile, and the peacekeeper's services would probably be more appreciated elsewhere in the world right now.

Surely the Israelis are well able to look after their own borders anyway! Now that they've finished their bombing campaign on civilians in Gaza.

Gatling

My name is URL wrote: »

Surely the Israelis are well able to look after their own borders anyway! Now that they've finished their bombing campaign on civilians in Gaza.

Isreal will look after isreal if IS come knocking and peacekeeps are on the Golan heights you can bet theres no help from tel Aviv.

The reason Austria's withdrew is the same as others they wont and cant have one of there own come home in a flag drapped coffin

John Mongo

My name is URL wrote: »

Are they not already rather well equipped for a peacekeeping contingent though? I know they don't have air support, but I can't really see the UN introducing it at this stage. Surely if they were going to do that they would have done so when the Austrians decided to pull out after 40 years of presence in the area. I mean that was a real signal that shit was going down hill, and it's only gotten worse since.

If the UN upgrade the mandate to allow for more relaxed RoE, then doesn't that run the risk of changing things from peacekeeping to 'peacemaking'. I don't know if that would be a great idea given the deteriorating situation in Syria, with new militant groups emerging on an almost weekly basis. Sounds like it might be a bit futile, and the peacekeeper's services would probably be more appreciated elsewhere in the world right now.

Surely the Israelis are well able to look after their own borders anyway! Now that they've finished their bombing campaign on civilians in Gaza.

For what they're facing over there? No, they're lacking some serious punch. AFAIK, the troops are currently restricted in what weapons they can have as part of the UNDOF mission.

When you have a situation where positions are being overrun, troops are being kidnapped, troops are having to escape across the Golan Heights on foot to avoid being captured... Something with the mandate has to change as long as the mission still exists.

These are the kind of assurances or review of practices that Minister Coveney and the DF want to take place.

If you want us to do a job, fair enough... Just don't tie our hands while we try do it.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Isreal will look after isreal if IS come knocking and peacekeeps are on the Golan heights you can bet theres no help from tel Aviv.

The reason Austria's withdrew is the same as others they wont and cant have one of there own come home in a flag drapped coffin

I know we have some armour there and the lads are well equipped but id doubt they could hold out against a full on assault from several groups of rebels or worse

EunanMac

My name is URL wrote: »

Surely the Israelis are well able to look after their own borders anyway! Now that they've finished their bombing campaign on civilians in Gaza.

Gatling wrote: »

Isreal will look after isreal if IS come knocking and peacekeeps are on the Golan heights you can bet theres no help from tel Aviv.

From RTE news :

Senior military sources last night said that the Irish-led operation to free the other UN troops yesterday was assisted by the Israeli Army which has look-out posts on high ground overlooking the UN area of operations along the border.

It will be interesting to see how much help Hamas and their allies give to the Irish troops.

My name is URL

John Mongo wrote: »

For what they're facing over there? No, they're lacking some serious punch. AFAIK, the troops are currently restricted in what weapons they can have as part of the UNDOF mission.

What they're facing now is worlds away from what UNDOF was set up to deal with. The mandate would need to be completely rewritten to allow the guys to deal with the threat of one 'side' drawing them into a civil war involving umpteen different (and sometimes external) factions.

In all seriousness, do you feel they should still be over there in their current role as observers?

UNDOF was about maintaining the border & ceasefire between Israel & Syria. Is that even something that needs maintaining atm? The Syrian military have other things to be doing right now other than invading Israel, and Israel is more than capable of dealing with rebels fcuking with their border.

Israel are basically on Assad's side right now, and our lads are over there making sure they don't mess with one another.. all the while when these rebels seem to have a free run of the country. It's madness imo

jonathan13

allroad wrote: »

The Filipino troops seem to have acquitted themselves very well.
I'm sure they feel a bit miffed at being described as "saved".
Filipino media is certainly downplaying any role Irish troops had in the operation.

can you post any link Filipino media is downplaying UN Irish QRF troops? They did their mission very well executed.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/377116/pinoyabroad/news/irish-troops-helped-besieged-phl-peacekeepers-withdraw-from-post-report

archer22

jonathan13 wrote: »

can you post any link Filipino media is downplaying UN Irish QRF troops? They did their mission very well executed.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/377116/pinoyabroad/news/irish-troops-helped-besieged-phl-peacekeepers-withdraw-from-post-report

In that article they are just quoting the Irish Mirror.The comment by "Roger" underneath is interesting.

Gatling

EunanMac wrote: »

The Irish troops secured and covered the route, they didn't 'rescue' or 'save' them

That's rescuing them without sounding alarmist and making look like everything was under control

EunanMac

Gatling wrote: »

That's rescuing them without sounding alarmist and making look like everything was under control

If I provide additional security along the route you are using, as useful and helpful as it is, I didn't 'rescue' or 'save' you.

jonathan13

archer22 wrote: »

In that article they are just quoting the Irish Mirror.The comment by "Roger" underneath is interesting.

is that being downplayed by media? that link is a big media giant there

the only comments that interest me are compliments to the Irish UN QRF..

Gatling

EunanMac wrote: »

If I provide additional security along the route you are using, as useful and helpful as it is, I didn't 'rescue' or 'save' you.

In your opinion


From hearing reports it was a rescue ,


but hey were not there but we've got semantics

Last_Minute

Are they making a movie about this?

jonathan13

Last_Minute wrote: »

Are they making a movie about this?

do you have suggestion for movie name?

Gatling

Last_Minute wrote: »

Are they making a movie about this?

That's was quick

archer22

jonathan13 wrote: »

is that being downplayed by media? that link is a big media giant there

the only comments that interest me are compliments to the Irish UN QRF..

The people complimenting are going on the quoted story from the Irish media.Personally I think the Irish media are hyping up the Irish contribution at the expense of the Filipinos who were the ones actually involved in a shooting battle and if anybody was truly heroic surely it was them.That is not to detract from the Irish soldiers who done there job well.But the day belongs to the Filipinos.The rest were just in a support role.

jonathan13

archer22 wrote: »

The people complimenting are going on the quoted story from the Irish media.Personally I think the Irish media are hyping up the Irish contribution at the expense of the Filipinos who were the ones actually involved in a shooting battle and if anybody was truly heroic surely it was them.That is not to detract from the Irish soldiers who done there job well.But the day belongs to the Filipinos.The rest were just in a support role.

supporting role or main character, they are all heroes for me personally. They are working for the UN flag and they all achieved whatever their mission tasked them to do.
if i'm a soldier on one of those post and knew i had limited ammo and pssibly surrounded by enemy, i'l be really happy if those APC was sent to extract my team

Son Of A Vidic

Summer Salmon Topaz wrote: »

At last we have an army that kind of does what an army is supposed to do.

Nonsense. No matter what flag they have served under, Irish soldiers have always been renowned for their fighting spirit and toughness.

allroad

jonathan13 wrote: »

can you post any link Filipino media is downplaying UN Irish QRF troops? They did their mission very well executed.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/377116/pinoyabroad/news/irish-troops-helped-besieged-phl-peacekeepers-withdraw-from-post-report

The link you provided allows access to other Filipino reports on the incident.
The reference story appears to be based on the Mirror report alone, which seems to differ from Filipino accounts.

The Filipinos do not see themselves as helpless victims in this incident, nor should they, from almost all accounts. The QRF obviously did it's job, as you would expect, but I think some of the language used in Irish reports has annoyed some Filipino observers.

Imagine if the situation was reversed and Irish troops had refused to hand over their weapons, held off the enemy for 7 hours and effected an escape with the aid of UN colleagues. Who would we regard as heroes?

This is not to take away from our own troops, who carried out their job with their usual professionalism and reliability, but the Filipinos deserve better than to be treated as helpless hostages in the way the Mirror article implies.

average hero

Irish defence forces doing an excellent job. Great that they're getting recognition for such a difficult job. They are doing us proud, against a ruthless and violent enemy who slaughter and maim anyone who doesn't agree with their ways of life.

Beano

allroad wrote: »

The link you provided allows access to other Filipino reports on the incident.
The reference story appears to be based on the Mirror report alone, which seems to differ from Filipino accounts.

The Filipinos do not see themselves as helpless victims in this incident, nor should they, from almost all accounts. The QRF obviously did it's job, as you would expect, but I think some of the language used in Irish reports has annoyed some Filipino observers.

Imagine if the situation was reversed and Irish troops had refused to hand over their weapons, held off the enemy for 7 hours and effected an escape with the aid of UN colleagues. Who would we regard as heroes?

We didnt regard the irish soldiers who held off a massively superior force for days as heroes so why should these be any different? Lets be honest most Irish people couldnt give a monkeys about the defence forces.