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Text service being removed from Eircom Landlines

  • 28-08-2014 1:07pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭


    Lads, I was sent this message and I'm sharing it as a sticky for people attention. I'll leave it there for a couple of weeks.

    We have been asked by Eircom Limited to bring the following message to the attention of the National Monitoring Centre Forum.

    In the coming months Eircom Limited plans to remove functionality that supports their 'Fixed SMS' service (the ability to send and receive SMS via a fixed line phone). Eircom and ourselves are aware that there is an installed base of alarms that use this technology for alerting owners and/or Monitoring centres, and possibly models on the market still being sold or installed using fixed line SMS for reporting/monitoring.

    In that regard it is essential that the National Monitoring Centre Forum members are aware of the cessation of the service, so that no new installations take place that rely on this technology and also so that alternative arrangements can be made for clients of your members that currently have alarms using this technology.

    Please note that mobile SIM, electronic pulse or internet based solutions will continue in place, this only applies to fixed line SMS services.

    The company has not yet confirmed the date this service will cease as they are eager to liaise with the National Monitoring Centre Forum to ascertain the numbers using this service and the timelines required to allow users to find new solutions.

    The company have requested the Forum's feedback/views on the issue which should be sent to :


    <snip contact details removed>

    The Authority is concerned that consumers and businesses would be left with alarms that are not functioning to specification after the SMS service is switched off and is determined that the message gets out as widely as possible to the industry and the general public. We would appreciate your assistance in this matter


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deandean


    I am gonna be very cheesed off if Eircom drops their SMS service on my fixed landline.

    I mean they are a service provider. So provide the service!

    I'll no longer have a reason to stay with them if they drop the SMS service. They'll lose me as a customer and I'll go to UPC or the likes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Absolutely no reason for me to stay with sky so ? As they use eircoms lines they wont be able to provide text either ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 67 ✭✭Lyncher2014


    And I have only gone back to eircom in the last month or two aswel.

    I was thinking that all the providers rent the lines from eircom, I was with vodaphone so does that mean they won't be able to use text also?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,562 ✭✭✭kub


    And I have only gone back to eircom in the last month or two aswel.

    I was thinking that all the providers rent the lines from eircom, I was with vodaphone so does that mean they won't be able to use text also?

    I would imagine that is the case alright. I have never been an advocate of a security system texting someone when it activates.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    And I have only gone back to eircom in the last month or two aswel.

    I was thinking that all the providers rent the lines from eircom, I was with vodaphone so does that mean they won't be able to use text also?

    They all use the Eircom line to provide the text and Eircom bills them for it. When this is turned off it will be off for them all. It has being coming as they are losing money keeping the service up and running.

    Adding a voice dialer to existing alarms using the text function should work in all cases.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    altor wrote: »
    They all use the Eircom line to provide the text and Eircom bills them for it. When this is turned off it will be off for them all. It has being coming as they are losing money keeping the service up and running.

    Adding a voice dialer to existing alarms using the text function should work in all cases.

    It was originally setup with text from landline to landline in mind. That never took off and it really was only intruder alarms that were using it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Yeah but text is a strong point for AIO units... suppose HKC and Riscos ip services will take over. Alot of 8/12 self monitored will be upgraded i imaging as paying what €320 for the gsm - p isnt practical when they could get the 10/70 with the secure comm installed for a little more which would make more sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    Yeah but text is a strong point for AIO units... suppose HKC and Riscos ip services will take over. Alot of 8/12 self monitored will be upgraded i imaging as paying what €320 for the gsm - p isnt practical when they could get the 10/70 with the secure comm installed for a little more which would make more sense.

    A voice dialer would be the cheaper option rather than pulling out a perfectly good alarm system. Unless of course you want these extra features :) If the 10/70 is installed then the text function can be turned off and voice activated for self monitoring.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    altor wrote: »
    A voice dialer would be the cheaper option rather than pulling out a perfectly good alarm system. Unless of course you want these extra features :) If the 10/70 is installed then the text function can be turned off and voice activated for self monitoring.

    Yeah, that's the great thing with the DTV having text, voice and CSM.

    Just to put it out there. Siemens from next month will have email notifications via SPC secure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    altor wrote: »
    A voice dialer would be the cheaper option rather than pulling out a perfectly good alarm system. Unless of course you want these extra features :) If the 10/70 is installed then the text function can be turned off and voice activated for self monitoring.

    Only down side is the voice dialler for an 8/12 wont give exact alarm event


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    Only down side is the voice dialler for an 8/12 wont give exact alarm event

    Individual outputs from panel connected to the individual inputs on the VD. A separate message is recorded on the VD for each event.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Individual outputs from panel connected to the individual inputs on the VD. A separate message is recorded on the VD for each event.

    I know that eg alarm/fire/panic outputs but it wont let you know that the front door was tripped then an entry fault then the hall beam followed by the landing beam.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    There's no reason why someone couldn't provide SMS for alarm monitoring on the landline network other than eircom.

    Its just using a trick of caller ID to deliver the messages.

    I'd say the issue is that they're getting no traffic over it and they're probably just about to upgrade their voice network to an IP-based system so, maybe its just not something they're too bothered with supplying anymore.

    Someone doing alarm monitoring could easily buy the gear to continue the service.

    It's not actually part of the exchange systems or anything like that. When you send an SMS you're making a very simple modem call to a number that recognises your caller ID.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deandean


    Individual outputs from panel connected to the individual inputs on the VD. A separate message is recorded on the VD for each event.

    Aah now, that's going back to the stone age.

    Can anyone guesstimate how many Eircom landlines are used for SMS alarm messages?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    I know that eg alarm/fire/panic outputs but it wont let you know that the front door was tripped then an entry fault then the hall beam followed by the landing beam.

    When you stated alarm events that normally means Alarm Panic etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    deandean wrote: »
    Aah now, that's going back to the stone age.

    Can anyone guesstimate how many Eircom landlines are used for SMS alarm messages?

    Not really stone age stuff Dean.

    Outputs are used for many different things.

    I'd say the amount of lines using sms is actually tiny and I can understand why eircom are closing it down.

    I thought I heard a few years ago that HKC were working on their own messaging centre.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I'm not aware of #anyone# who actually uses the landline SMS service for anything else.

    The phones never really had very good interfaces and nobody's going to send private texts to a non secure shared landline anyway. It's really a solution in search of a problem other than that it's been very handy for alarms.

    I'd say either the server's too old and needs replacement or they're replacing whatever aspect of the network it runs on.

    It's possible the vendor mightn't even exist anymore or pulled support too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭stuartkee


    They will lose even more market share I have customers who have stayed with eircom just because of the text service so if that goes they go again eircom shooting them selves in the foot


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    Only down side is the voice dialler for an 8/12 wont give exact alarm event

    Agreed, the GSM off this system would.
    The only thing is I cant see too many people taking out a perfectly working alarm just to know what zone activated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    stuartkee wrote: »
    They will lose even more market share I have customers who have stayed with eircom just because of the text service so if that goes they go again eircom shooting them selves in the foot

    That's the thing, the volume of SMS going through it might have been quite low but the number of landlines it was keeping alive might have been significant.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 Seq uence


    I feel this move by Eircom was always going to happen. Nobody bothers with tex via the home phone. I for one am happy its going. As for voice digis? is that not a step backwards?
    Smartphone apps and IP is the future. What difference does it make if a voice alert does not give you much information of what has happened. If you log in with an app you will get all the detail you require.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    I've just been on to Eircom & was told by two seperate agents (who then checked with their supervisor) that they have no plans to remove the functionality & that it would be physically impossible for them to do so :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    BTW: Did anyone officially announce that eircom were removing the service or is this just an unsubstantiated rumour?

    I don't think they'd actively withdraw a service unless it were costing them money or they weren't keen on upgrading whatever equipment supplies it.

    It's worth understanding how the voice network actually works though to understand why these services might be or not be impacted by changes.

    Structure:

    Core Network: You've 46 exchanges called MSUs (Main Switching Units). These are the main exchanges in every area. Many of them also connect end users, but some only talk to other exchanges. These are where most of the intelligent features of the network live at a local level and they handle all the fancier functions of routing, billing, sending traffic to other networks etc.

    Some routing and intelligent network stuff is done at this level too. These are all hugely interconnected as a big mesh network that was literally built with the cold war in mind! If a town disappeared off the map, the network would work around it.

    Then you've got over 1200 Remote Subscriber Units. These are usually what most people will know as their local exchange. Effectively they're just a part of the MSU remotely located near end users to avoid vast amounts of copper wiring. They're pretty simple, dumb equipment that just contains lots of line cards that connect end users. The MSU manages everything they do.
    Then you've got tertiary services delivered by switches and servers that sit on top of the network. These include things like international connectivity (International Gateway Switches), certain connections onward to other networks where they're done centrally, intelligent network services that do things like provide premium rate calls, 1800, 1890 etc.. etc... It's likely the SMS system is just a server sitting at that level somewhere.

    Eircom, in common with most other telcos around the developed world is migrating from TDM (Time Division Multiplexing) networking (old style digital) to IP (Internet Protocol). This means they'll be basically sending all their voice and ISDN traffic through the same network as any other type of data and using highly managed QoS (quality of service) to ensure that the packets all come out at the correct time. The result is that you end up with a much higher capacity and more efficient network.

    To do that they basically replace the tertiary services (already done AFAIK) and then the MSUs with more modern IP equipment.
    The local exchanges and the familiar services that we use on landlines are unlikely to be impacted at all and they've no particular plans to end POTS service in any plan that I've ever seen them publish or submit to ComReg anyway.

    I don't see any particular reason why the upgrades would require them to ditch SMS services on landlines as they're just injected into the network from a server somewhere.

    Where it might not work is if you were to move to a VoIP service delivered over your broadband line rather than using the line cards in the local exchange. Although, I can't see why not as it's just using a trick of Caller ID and a very very slow 1200 bps modem to deliver the SMS.

    To send an SMS the alarm or phone just dials a number, modem answers - sends 1200 bps modem traffic very quickly. The server recognises your caller ID and sends it on and bills you.

    To receive an SMS, the server rings you showing a specific caller ID, your phone/device recognises that's the SMS centre and immediately answers - modem sends 1200 bps data stream and that's your incoming SMS.

    It's just a way of hacking on SMS to a network that never really supported it in the first place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 Seq uence


    Hi Cushie.
    To be honest I would imagine customer service agents would be the last to know or inform you of this.
    Space Time ,thats is a very impressive and informative post ,well done.
    The information was sent from Eircom to the PSA and in turn out to monitoring stations and onto installers etc. The one I seen was fully address from a department in their offices on St Johns Road . The contact details are not included in the version posted above so obviousally it would not be right for me to post that information either.
    But from what I can see both the Eircom & The PSA contact details are correct.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    The most likely reason is actually the equipment vendor has pulled the plug on support. I don't think the landline SMS service has been popular anywhere in the world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    Apparently eircom know nothing about the service and don't even know how many customers use the service.

    It's been left working away without any real expertise within eircom.

    From what I've been told there's approx six months left of the service.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Apparently eircom know nothing about the service and don't even know how many customers use the service.

    It's been left working away without any real expertise within eircom.

    From what I've been told there's approx six months left of the service.

    The problem is that people don't really use the service.

    How often does an alarm system send an SMS?
    Maybe a few times a year at most?

    They are making maybe 20 cent out of each alarm at that rate maybe every 6 months!

    Perhaps the sensible solution might be to offer it as a subscription service for say €3.99/month and see if there's any uptake before they close it down.

    Eircom would have no idea that you were using the service for an alarm, they might just see that you've sent 3 text messages in 2013 which wouldn't really indicate that you're actively using the service at all.

    Bear in mind that there were 2,021,691,852 SMS messages sent in Ireland in the last quarter!!
    I'd doubt eircom's landline SMS service is even seeing .0000001% of those.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭John Kelly of


    There are a lot of people out there who have alarms set up to use this and now they will be let down and will have to go through expense and hassle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Got this in mail today.

    324360.JPG


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    It was a pretty bad idea to become so reliant on what turned out to be a very obscure supplementary service that's not regulated by ComReg under the universal service obligation or even the licence that eircom operate under.

    The reality is that eircom are seeing almost no usage of the service even if alarms use it, they don't generate much traffic so eircom makes no money out of them.

    You can easily see how they concluded that nobody's using the service. Mobile SMS generates billions of messages. I'd be surprised if the landline system is even processing thousands.

    The only way I could see them keeping it is if it could be subscribed to?

    Would it be worth say 3.99 a month?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Don`t think many would take it up at that price. Maybe a Euro a Month :)


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    SpaceTime wrote: »

    The only way I could see them keeping it is if it could be subscribed to?

    Would it be worth say 3.99 a month?

    No charge would be worth it. IP is the future & notifications and access via that path are free.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    IP is definitely the way forward both for alarm monitoring and for the voice network itself too.

    I just think it's a little unreasonable to continue updating a system that's generating almost no revenue.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I agree entirely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I just think it's a little unreasonable to continue updating a system that's generating almost no revenue.

    Agreed but they will have to give end users plenty of notice before turning off the service.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    altor wrote: »
    Agreed but they will have to give end users plenty of notice before turning off the service.

    Seems to me that's pretty much what they're doing though.

    Fundamentally all telecoms companies are changing at the moment.

    Their entire businesses are being turned upside down and inside out by changing technology.

    If you're a traditional telco like eircom or any of their counterparts in any other country you're moving from a situation where you were a voice telephony provider that provided broadband internet as a supplementary service built on your voice network, to a situation where your voice network's now just an application on your broadband platform.

    Essentially eircom's moving from being a phone company to a pure ISP.

    Same with cable companies like UPC, your TV service is suddenly a supplemental service and the core business is providing broadband.

    Even the mobile industry is going from a situation where it's all about voice and texts, to a situation where voice and texts are just applications sitting on a high speed 3G and 4G data network.

    Effectively the core business of mobile providers is rapidly becoming being a mobile ISP and doing hire purchase agreements on extremely expensive handsets that are basically just portable computers.

    Free IP services like WhatsApp, iMessage, Facebook Messenger, Google Hangouts etc are gobbling up SMS traffic. I'd say that technology will probably become obsolete entirely in a very short time or will be adapted into being something else entirely.

    I certainly can't see them charging for SMS messages like they do at the moment. They'll have to be free or almost free.

    So, I can see exactly why eircom are probably going to put the landline SMS servers in a skip at some stage rather than spend money upgrading or replacing them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deandean


    out of interest, how dò phonewatch panels communicate? i always thought they use sms over the land line.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Its basically information sent over a standard PSTN line.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    They basically dial into the monitoring centre over a PSTN line and send a very short amount of information using a modem.

    Because it's 1 line of data being sent at most, they can use a very simple modem that means you've no need to do all that checking of the line and complicated handshaking that high speed modems used for dial up internet access need to do.

    I'm not sure if the more modern panels use IP over GSM data. They certainly would be capable of doing that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 Seq uence


    Many of the newer panels would have the ability to be monitored over IP .
    Some monitoring stations are playing catch up when it comes to this.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    There are still a few systems, including alarms and also Sky's set top boxes, that are over reliant on voiceband modems for communication.

    The problem is that there's a huge difference between how a traditional digital PSTN line (i.e. bog standard eircom line) and a VoIP service handle audio. To your ear, the VoIP service may actually sound better, but the compression can be much more dynamic and adaptive than a PSTN line resulting in all sort of chaos for the modem.

    Basically, a PSTN line just samples at 8kHz and with only 8bit resolution using a somewhat non-linear system that's adapted to ensure human voices sound good.
    VoIP and also mobile phone networks can be way more flexible than that but it kills modems that are totally restricted to the PSTN approach to things.

    At this stage, we're at the tipping point where PSTN lines are becoming less common than they once were and IP services are replacing them.

    The alarm companies and Sky would want to seriously catch up! They're lost in the 1990s somewhere.

    PSTN phoniness are rapidly becoming about as relevant as fax machines.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    The alarm companies and Sky would want to seriously catch up! They're lost in the 1990s somewhere.

    Most systems on the market have other forms of communication so are not reliant on a phone line.
    The relation to this service comes about on older systems reliant on the texting service.
    This thread was set up to make people aware of same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Are there any adaptors that might send the SMS traffic through an IP system?

    i.e. some kind of a device that contains a modem and can produce the necessary dial tone and PSTN voice paths to connect to the panel and then transmit the data back to the monitoring centre over IP or that could convert it back to GSM SMS ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Are there any adaptors that might send the SMS traffic through an IP system?

    i.e. some kind of a device that contains a modem and can produce the necessary dial tone and PSTN voice paths to connect to the panel and then transmit the data back to the monitoring centre over IP or that could convert it back to GSM SMS ?

    If you have an older system that relies on the text service then fitting a voice dialer or GSM would be the easier solution. I have not seen any other device that will do what you want.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭imitation


    Hi Lads, will this affect a HKC GSM - P dialler hooked up to a Securewave 1070 ? Someone was telling me it still use's eircoms system and will be affected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,562 ✭✭✭kub


    imitation wrote: »
    Hi Lads, will this affect a HKC GSM - P dialler hooked up to a Securewave 1070 ? Someone was telling me it still use's eircoms system and will be affected.

    No it does not,, that unit utilises a mobile phone network so your texts will function regardless


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭stuartkee


    No as one is a GSM over a mobile network and Eircom is a landline kind of obvious if you think about it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭tippgaafan


    Is the email notification on the Siemens SPC up and running. Will a firmware upgrade be required ?
    Yeah, that's the great thing with the DTV having text, voice and CSM.

    Just to put it out there. Siemens from next month will have email notifications via SPC secure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭altor


    imitation wrote: »
    Hi Lads, will this affect a HKC GSM - P dialler hooked up to a Securewave 1070 ? Someone was telling me it still use's eircoms system and will be affected.

    No it will not effect you if using a GSM-P.
    These systems use there own sim card. Nothing to do with Eircoms Phone service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Darando


    Just came across this thread, never heard about fixed line SMS being phased out as currently don't have Eircom as our service provider on the fixed line so didn't get /probably won't get notice about the seice becoming redundant.

    We sue the fixed line SMS of a SW812 and its very handy feature, so when the service disappears then looks like 2 options really?

    GSM-P unit to exisitng panel

    Replace with a new control panel

    What would the cost for either?


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