Beef in Crisis

Robson99

sandydan wrote: »

how could they justify that in face of fact that farms are what is certified QA but not all if any animals are paid for as QA beef while they market it as such.

This is the mad thing and bulls**t about board bia. Its the farm thats inspected, not the animals during an audit. Yet if they don't conform fat wise you don't get the 12cent bonus. Surely your either QA or not. Its mad Ted

tomwaterford

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Put all stock true mart and make them bid against each other for them then they will have mart fees and also have the fee of transport to factory might change there tune

deos this not leave said animals inevitably having to still at some stage go to factory....and would it not near on wipe out the weanling trade


and was seen from the horsemeat scandal...what is to stop factories bringing in lorry loads of meat from Poland and processing it here???
further undermining prices..
..im not supporting the factories atal....it just at times appears desperation and naivity from farm organisatoions to be seen to do something and not think out there actions properly....without a viable alternative market....they will be still at this messing in 2-3 years time

Abfg

rangler1 wrote: »

Abusive posts don't deserve proper answers

Just like I said more excuses!!!!!

Kovu

Abfg red-carded for above post.

If you cannot abide by the mod warnings or retort as such , please do not post.

.Kovu.

Abfg

.Kovu. wrote: »

Abfg red-carded for above post.

If you cannot abide by the mod warnings or retort as such , please do not post.

.Kovu.

The truth hurts!!!!!!!

mf240

Abfg wrote: »

The truth hurts!!!!!!!

WE HEARD YOU THE FIRST TIME CHANGE THE RECORD.


Please and thanks:D

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

deos this not leave said animals inevitably having to still at some stage go to factory....and would it not near on wipe out the weanling trade


and was seen from the horsemeat scandal...what is to stop factories bringing in lorry loads of meat from Poland and processing it here???
further undermining prices..
..im not supporting the factories atal....it just at times appears desperation and naivity from farm organisatoions to be seen to do something and not think out there actions properly....without a viable alternative market....they will be still at this messing in 2-3 years time

In the graph that was put up earlier in the thread, it showed all Europe on roughly the same price, so unless the European prices is risen, we're not going to get a price rise, we're all selling into the same markets

tomwaterford

rangler1 wrote: »

In the graph that was put up earlier in the thread, it showed all Europe on roughly the same price, so unless the European prices is risen, we're not going to get a price rise, we're all selling into the same markets

if that is the case (not doubting you atal)...is it not a little futile protesting??

sandydan

tomwaterford wrote: »

im just making the small point that it is naïve of farm organisations to withdraw there animals from factories (what I read it as)...without having some sort of alternative viable market for the animals

im not having a go at you or anyone, just how could/would Bord Bia/ factories pr deal with it in your opinion, with protests at supermarket generating pr problem for them re high price to consumer,versus publicity of lower price paid to producers and housewives (non farming) are asking questions about this now.

publicity of non payment on some cattle from QA rated farms would in my opinion generate a pr issue that they would rather avoid imo, as that would raise question of where does that beef go,as most farmers suspect its sold as QA beef anyway.
shades of beef tribunal allegations surfacing again for same players still controlling factories. regardless of whether withdrawal goes ahead or not

tomwaterford

sandydan wrote: »

im not having a go at you or anyone, just how could/would Bord Bia/ factories pr deal with it in your opinion, with protests at supermarket generating pr problem for them re high price to consumer,versus publicity of lower price paid to producers and housewives (non farming) are asking questions about this now.

publicity of non payment on some cattle from QA rated farms would in my opinion generate a pr issue that they would rather avoid imo, as that would raise question of where does that beef go,as most farmers suspect its sold as QA beef anyway.
shades of beef tribunal allegations surfacing again for same players still controlling factories. regardless of whether withdrawal goes ahead or not

I would be interested to hear from consumers....what is a bigger concern QA or price
IE:if two pieces of identical beef were side by side one was QA and the other not and the non-QA was 30% cheaper...which would they pick??

same would go for irish and non-irish meat??


when it comes down to the money....how far would they follow what appear to me atleast to be glorified gimmicks??

Nettleman

sandydan wrote: »

im not having a go at you or anyone, just how could/would Bord Bia/ factories pr deal with it in your opinion, with protests at supermarket generating pr problem for them re high price to consumer,versus publicity of lower price paid to producers and housewives (non farming) are asking questions about this now.

publicity of non payment on some cattle from QA rated farms would in my opinion generate a pr issue that they would rather avoid imo, as that would raise question of where does that beef go,as most farmers suspect its sold as QA beef anyway.
shades of beef tribunal allegations surfacing again for same players still controlling factories. regardless of whether withdrawal goes ahead or not

One small point re BB, the factories check your status by inputting your herd number into the bb website to see if your valid, but the website actually tells them more info, i.e. it tells them when you cert expires also, so if your a month away, they could lowball you on cattle. I regard this information as commercially sensitive to my farming business, and have instructed BB not to tell any factory when my cert expires as that my private business not thiers to give out willynilly. They said they would get back to me, but god forbid, we withhold some tiny info to protect ourselves. Played the data protection card.

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

if that is the case (not doubting you atal)...is it not a little futile protesting??

Until I saw that graph I thought we were lower price than Europe, there doesn't seem to 20c/kg in the difference of any of us

sandydan

tomwaterford wrote: »

deos this not leave said animals inevitably having to still at some stage go to factory....and would it not near on wipe out the weanling trade


and was seen from the horsemeat scandal...what is to stop factories bringing in lorry loads of meat from Poland and processing it here???
further undermining prices..
..im not supporting the factories atal....it just at times appears desperation and naivity from farm organisatoions to be seen to do something and not think out there actions properly....without a viable alternative market....they will be still at this messing in 2-3 years time

you have point about animals having to go to factory ,if proper legislation was enforced it would not be an issue,ie QA label would not be available, meat or any product imported and packed in Ireland could not be sold as Irish Beef or whatever.Irish product is best and paid for accordingly. if all Polish product was used its price would increase and lessen margin,ie greater demand would lead to price increase and cost of Poland beef carcasses, if that is original source.

sandydan

tomwaterford wrote: »

I would be interested to hear from consumers....what is a bigger concern QA or price
IE:if two pieces of identical beef were side by side one was QA and the other not and the non-QA was 30% cheaper...which would they pick??

same would go for irish and non-irish meat??


when it comes down to the money....how far would they follow what appear to me atleast to be glorified gimmicks??

your missing the point im trying to make,ie beef animals are down in price ,now some housewives are wondering and asking at supermarkets about high price of QA beef and some, not all are going back to butchers .protests at Supermarkets influence the shopping public, Supermarket and Fast food outlets are factory customers.

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

if that is the case (not doubting you atal)...is it not a little futile protesting??

I'd agree, just wrote it earlier today that we're not going to influence markets....might stop the last 10c of a drop but the market will work itself,
Hopefully low prices will cure low prices.....people give up producing, commodity gets scarce, price goes up

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

Until I saw that graph I thought we were lower price than Europe, there doesn't seem to 20c/kg in the difference of any of us

why compare to euro av price, that's the line MII trot out to distract. Interising that Rangler repeats their reteric!!!!our meat ends up in the uk mostly, and currencies have moved in favour of factories selling into that market, and our meat sits beside uk meat on the supermarket shelf, the uk farmer gets 200-300 more than us for his cattle, thems the facts. Europe argument only accounts for a small %, lions share goes across the water. Red tractor may account for some of the difference, transport may account for a few cent more, but the rest is margin.

sandydan

Nettleman wrote: »

One small point re BB, the factories check your status by inputting your herd number into the bb website to see if your valid, but the website actually tells them more info, i.e. it tells them when you cert expires also, so if your a month away, they could lowball you on cattle. I regard this information as commercially sensitive to my farming business, and have instructed BB not to tell any factory when my cert expires as that my private business not thiers to give out willynilly. They said they would get back to me, but god forbid, we withhold some tiny info to protect ourselves. Played the data protection card.

i get what your saying re QA status and info on same , however if you protest outside local factory to which you supply, they wont have to look for your status, they will know or find out your identity , that would make it more attractive to protest elsewhere or get an organisation to generate publicity re withdrawing from QA status, its a pr exercise that will or should attract Minister for Tanks and Tractors to join in conversation if interested in beef production and this 2020 beef production target he aims to attain, beef finishers are sitting on fence and not purchasing for next year, with knock on effects on beef breeding , that could leave minister with a belly ache coming up to 2015-16 elections that could accompanied by Labours showing in Council Elections could mean he might have plenty time for planning for 2021 elections

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

why compare to euro av price, that's the line MII trot out to distract. Interising that Rangler repeats their reteric!!!!our meat ends up in the uk mostly, and currencies have moved in favour of factories selling into that market, and our meat sits beside uk meat on the supermarket shelf, the uk farmer gets 200-300 more than us for his cattle, thems the facts. Europe argument only accounts for a small %, lions share goes across the water. Red tractor may account for some of the difference, transport may account for a few cent more, but the rest is margin.

The point I'm trying to make is if we charge more, can you gurantee that the English won't go to france/Italy to buy their beef instead, our meat ends up in the uk mostly because of price, A lot of Irish beef goes for processing, catering etc as far as I know, where like here there's no compulsion to declare the origin.
When you go for pub grub do you ask where the meat comes from.
Why would a restaurant buy our beef if it was 20% dearer than European,

sandydan

rangler1 wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is if we charge more, can you gurantee that the English won't go to france/Italy to buy their beef instead, our meat ends up in the uk mostly because of price, A lot of Irish beef goes for processing, catering etc as far as I know, where like here there's no compulsion to declare the origin.
When you go for pub grub do you ask where the meat comes from

what im finding hard to fathom is this, if we charge more, what will we do at all at all, we dont charge, we take what factories give us regardless of what they get on market ,we comply ,we get nowhere. in my opinion a lot of these schemes we join in are nothing more than rolls of red tape,
to compete on an open market to export of send to market we need a lot of expertise in marketing and market needs not some politician tying us up in pseudo schemes,quoting factory requirements producing animals that some one dreams up and produces statistics for, off some wall chart to fill out paperwork that may have no basis on market facts or requirements or in fact don't comply with any requirements at all other than creating a photocall opportunity to impress someone in Voterland that they are looking out for Irish interests.price as you say is king and producing animals (on basis of factory or minster advice allegedly) like bull beef as happened without some publicity from factories that after a certain date it wont be possible to sell on export market so if below certian weight we advise for eg squeeze bulls now and supply as bullocks at Xkgs approx or contact agent to avoid having them at normal finisher date for bulls as lower prices will be paid after certain date.
Something like above would improve relations between factory and producer and price and product as well ." i dream a dream" is that a song or wha

Nettleman

sandydan wrote: »

i get what your saying re QA status and info on same , however if you protest outside local factory to which you supply, they wont have to look for your status, they will know or find out your identity , that would make it more attractive to protest elsewhere or get an organisation to generate publicity re withdrawing from QA status, its a pr exercise that will or should attract Minister for Tanks and Tractors to join in conversation if interested in beef production and this 2020 beef production target he aims to attain, beef finishers are sitting on fence and not purchasing for next year, with knock on effects on beef breeding , that could leave minister with a belly ache coming up to 2015-16 elections that could accompanied by Labours showing in Council Elections could mean he might have plenty time for planning for 2021 elections

Agree howeve, the tanks and tractors man is looking ahead...
He is already setting us up for next election by delaying glas so it will pay out just before polling. He is betting we will forget about the whole beef crisis thingies when we get our cash ... Not me!!!

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

Anyone in Dundalk today, couldn't make it, I thought it was Tesco, but it was dunnes. It doesn't look great for Tesco agreeing to the new labelling system for beef born in the south and finished in the north
Factories would be in the **** now, if farmers throw out the QA

we where told it was Tesco by phone, text later said it was a different area but didnt say what supermarket. My dad was to go but something came up here.

rangler1

The Indo today claims there's only 10 days food left in the world at any time.
It'll be down to five days, if they keep shafting the producers the way they are

Willfarman

rangler1 wrote: »

The Indo today claims there's only 10 days food left in the world at any time.
It'll be down to five days, if they keep shafting the producers the way they are

We are going to see a big change in the value of the food producer in years to come.
An ever growing world population coupled with ever increasing conflict and political turbulence gives a sense of inevitability that food shortages are going to be seen in places where they haven't been see in a half century.

coolshannagh28

Does anyone think that QA carries any weight with the UK consumer post horsemeat . Face facts Irish beef is perceived as low grade, huge amounts of which went for processing as it has been undersold for decades . Our product does not fit the market hence the rush to coerce us into smaller traditional cattle . The model does not work as per Larry entering rearing and finishing in an effort to bypass farmers . The UK customer wants angus or Hereford on the shelf as these are perceived as the premium product . Horsemeat was a defining moment as the processors were found out and have had to reinvent themselves albeit at the expense of Irish farmers .

sandydan

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Does anyone think that QA carries any weight with the UK consumer post horsemeat . Face facts Irish beef is perceived as low grade, huge amounts of which went for processing as it has been undersold for decades . Our product does not fit the market hence the rush to coerce us into smaller traditional cattle . The model does not work as per Larry entering rearing and finishing in an effort to bypass farmers . The UK customer wants angus or Hereford on the shelf as these are perceived as the premium product . Horsemeat was a defining moment as the processors were found out and have had to reinvent themselves albeit at the expense of Irish farmers .

where are the horses going now, im told market for them is stronger that pre scandal days , are they part of menu of ingredient. id say QA means little or nothing, just can onyone recount the various schemes invented over years and used by feedlots to own advantage , the list is endless and and penalty for participation in some will be felt for years ,ask reps men with rocky ground that were left exposed when mapping to digital was enforced, rock and habitat ground left to nature as required under reps and farmers were left with no paperwork to prove they were in compliance with a scheme invented by...

Nettleman

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Does anyone think that QA carries any weight with the UK consumer post horsemeat . Face facts Irish beef is perceived as low grade, huge amounts of which went for processing as it has been undersold for decades . Our product does not fit the market hence the rush to coerce us into smaller traditional cattle . The model does not work as per Larry entering rearing and finishing in an effort to bypass farmers . The UK customer wants angus or Hereford on the shelf as these are perceived as the premium product . Horsemeat was a defining moment as the processors were found out and have had to reinvent themselves albeit at the expense of Irish farmers .

I agree with first part, our credibility abroad is not as good as the powers that be here proclaim it is. Personally, I though there was a missed opportunity, once it was suspected that horsemeat was connected with a factory in NE, we should have immediately setup a Beef regulator with real powers and teeth. Imo. First job, prosecute wrongdoers in that scandal, then move onto the day job. this would have improved our profile by leading the way and appointing a beef regulator, thereby telling the UK, look at us, we hope this will persuade you we are serious about beef exports and providence of same, you should buy our product in confidence. the Hereford and Angus cattle are early maturing cattle, so the reach full adult size earlier in life. However, their feed conversion efficiency is not as good as Contential, and Herefords go over fat easily. There is also a concern about dairy crossing these black cattle, then you would never put condition on them.

I said

Reward for delivering in-spec cattle is abundantly obvious
http://www.agriland.ie/news/uk-beef-editorial/
What?

leg wax

I said wrote: »

Reward for delivering in-spec cattle is abundantly obvious
http://www.agriland.ie/news/uk-beef-editorial/
What?

let the **** hit the fan:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Markcheese

So how much are lads here with the right spec QA Hereford and Angus , bullocks and heifers actually getting ? As opposed to a guy with a 31 month old heavy continental ?

I said

Meat factories not attending IFA beef crisis meetings, but call for private talks
http://www.agriland.ie/news/meat-factories-attending-ifa-beef-crisis-meetings-call-private-talks/
What's so important they can't speak in public?