Beef in Crisis

onyerbikepat

TUBBY wrote: »

if we did slaughter you pat, you would prob grade bad, we wouldn't get the qa bonus and we'd be even more pissed off

I'll have you know TUBBY , I'm more of an E2, very lean, with plenty of muscle hanging off me.

Base price

Abfg wrote: »

cjmc wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance but read the last few posts , whats the EIF levy and what s its purpose[/

It's where the IFA take money off farmers (both members and non members) by diducting it from all cattle sold in marts and factories to fund their organisation. This is done without any permission what so ever and equates to 3 million euro annually. Has to be a criminal act???

By the way any farmer reading this that wants to recoup this money for the last 12 months can fill out a form that the mart or factory will supply you on request and the IFA are legally obliged to refund you.

rangler1 wrote: »

Membership fee of IFA is based on acreage, but 50ha sheep farmer selling €50000 worth of produce shouldn't have to pay the same as a 50ha dairy farm selling €200000 worth of produce, so it was decided to introduce a levy of €1 for every thousand euro of produce you sell (think it's more in milk), it's divided between ICMSA, MACRA, and IFA,
Its collected at the meat factories, milk processors, grain merchants,
Levy costs me around €60 on 500 ewes
Just to put it in perspective, between myself and the wife, we pay €219 membership, we get €140 back on our insurance, so you see when I say it'd cost more to be a member of a hockey club, I wouldn't be far off,
Any member killed in a farm accident ( which is topical at the moment) gets 20000, there's money paid out for loss of limbs as well....some hospital stays after farm accidents....loads of benefits

cjmc - The EIF levy is automatically deducted whether you are a IFA member or not. Since the IFA do not publish annual accounts no one knows how much they gather from the EIF levy annually. However we do know that funds from the EIF levy account for 35% of the IFA total funding.
Also no one knows if the factories/processors deduct the EIF levy on cattle killed from their own feedlots and pass same on to the IFA.
The majority of farmers/finishers that I talk to believe that there is a conflict of interest.
I have suggested an alternative to the EIF levy via deductions from SFP. After all the IFA rowed in behind Covney's plan - the more productive you are the more you receive (and pay)

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

Membership fee of IFA is based on acreage, but 50ha sheep farmer selling €50000 worth of produce shouldn't have to pay the same as a 50ha dairy farm selling €200000 worth of produce, so it was decided to introduce a levy of €1 for every thousand euro of produce you sell (think it's more in milk), it's divided between ICMSA, MACRA, and IFA,
Its collected at the meat factories, milk processors, grain merchants,
Levy costs me around €60 on 500 ewes
Just to put it in perspective, between myself and the wife, we pay €219 membership, we get €140 back on our insurance, so you see when I say it'd cost more to be a member of a hockey club, I wouldn't be far off,
Any member killed in a farm accident ( which is topical at the moment) gets 20000, there's money paid out for loss of limbs as well....some hospital stays after farm accidents....loads of benefits

Rangler, thanks for the details, but Im just not interested in your telecoms or your insurance. Pure smokescreen, mirrors and fog...I would have preferred IFA to have done the jobs they were paid to do by us over the years and not have us on our knees today. If life was grand, and we were making a decent living, then you can talk about insurance, telcons, but when the house is on fire, you guys would be sticking the kettle on.. Do I need to remind you about the teagasc income stats for beef farmers

mf240

The only problem i have is the fact that its up to the farmer to opt out of paying instead of being asked to opt in.

I had to write a letter to glanbia to stop them taking it, phonecall wouldnt do. Just seems wrong to me.

bogman_bass

Abfg wrote: »

I'm afraid it's too late for the IfA they are a spent force. They have lost the trust of the majority of farmers in the country and will never regain it!
Farming is on it's knees and all the IFA people posting messages on here is what'll we do without the Levy money.
If the IFA ran out of money in the morning and disbanded do you think farming would get any worse????? Do you think the majority of farmers in the west of Ireland would loose any sleep over it??????
It would probably be an advantage in so far as it would be easier to set up a coop/group like what nettleman is talking about.
To answer your question you would have no problem getting money off the farmers if the organisation was fair to all farmers regardless of size and it was a big advantage to be a member. When I say advantage I dont mean getting cheap insurance from FBD or s11t like that. I mean like taking back control of the meat industry severing all ties with the factories and taking the likes of the Larry's of this world on and beating them at their own game.

Firstly I'm no more an IFA than you are. I pay my membership and turn up every 4 years to vote for the president.
However I am involved with other organisations and its the same be it farmers or not; the same few people do all the work and everybody else complains.

This arguement reminds me of Libya a couple of years ago. It wasn't hard to get rid of Gaddalfi but with nothing to fill the vacuum the country is in a way worse state now.

The same with Irish farming. Fine, you can get rid of the IFA but have you an alternative to fill the space?
I haven't heard anybody talking about joining the ICSA or ICMSA instead

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

Rangler, thanks for the details, but Im just not interested in your telecoms or your insurance. Pure smokescreen, mirrors and fog...I would have preferred IFA to have done the jobs they were paid to do by us over the years and not have us on our knees today. If life was grand, and we were making a decent living, then you can talk about insurance, telcons, but when the house is on fire, you guys would be sticking the kettle on.. Do I need to remind you about the teagasc income stats for beef farmers

We're a lobby organisation firstly, we don't claim to buy beef or control markets, my opinion is we shouldn't be at it, but I'm just one
Do a lot of work here with Co councils, dept, Dvo. local issues
This organisation was started as a voluntary organisation to represent ordinary farmers with the help of ordinary farmers, but now that the farmers are deciding to stand back from helping maybe it is time to pay officers properly plus expenses and demand they be available say Monday tues of every week for say half salary of say €20000 plus travelling and three or four of these officers be available from each county. I was told when I started that my farm would not go forward in the next four years, in fact it would go back......hasn't happened, only because I put it first...that's not acceptable.
The infrastructure is there and the salary would ensure competition at the elections.
The present level of funding wouldn't cover it, so don't say we're being paid
Ask your parents, it was important that at the start that it was farmer led and farmer driven, afraid now it's only farmer led

The businesses are there to ensure that there is enough income in the future to keep the organisation going,
and to keep value in the markets, iinsurance and whatever, rightly or wrongly it's working well and adding to the organisation

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

We're a lobby organisation firstly, we don't claim to buy beef or control markets, my opinion is we shouldn't be at it, but I'm just one
Do a lot of work here with Co councils, dept, Dvo. local issues
This organisation was started as a voluntary organisation to represent ordinary farmers with the help of ordinary farmers, but now that the farmers are deciding to stand back from helping maybe it is time to pay officers properly plus expenses and demand they be available say Monday tues of every week for say half salary of say €20000 plus travelling and three or four of these officers be available from each county. I was told when I started that my farm would not go forward in the next four years, in fact it would go back......hasn't happened, only because I put it first...that's not acceptable.
The infrastructure is there and the salary would ensure competition at the elections.
The present level of funding wouldn't cover it, so don't say we're being paid
Ask your parents, it was important that at the start that it was farmer led and farmer driven, afraid now it's only farmer led

The businesses are there to ensure that there is enough income in the future to keep the organisation going,
and to keep value in the markets, iinsurance and whatever, rightly or wrongly it's working well and adding to the organisation

Ok, so I ask again.... where is all the money gone? Farmers are paying, so wheres the money, because the results don't talk for themselves. Ask Central to Publish audited accounts for the national organisation for last 3 years on their website and let us see where IFA are spending their (our) money. Why could you not tell cfmc the full truth about EIF, in particular, it is a voluntary deduction that is taken off all farmers without their permission by meat factories, marts and coops for benefit of IFA. My parents wrote off IFA years ago, big man outfit. I gave IFA a chance, but gave up for different reason, last straw being indo article of your past president feedlotting cattle for processors.

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

Ok, so I ask again.... where is all the money gone? Farmers are paying, so wheres the money, because the results don't talk for themselves. Ask Central to Publish audited accounts for the national organisation for last 3 years on their website and let us see where IFA are spending their (our) money. Why could you not tell cfmc the full truth about EIF, in particular, it is a voluntary deduction that is taken off all farmers without their permission by meat factories, marts and coops for benefit of IFA. My parents wrote off IFA years ago, big man outfit. I gave IFA a chance, but gave up for different reason, last straw being indo article of your past president feedlotting cattle for processors.

Didn't the post 2 or 3 after his tell him it was a voluntary levy, I'm sure the decision on the levy was taken democratically at the time, if you're not happy with the way elected reps are running the organisation, elect someone else...simples
Incidentally I want an answer to the question in bold before you shoot ff on another rant

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

Didn't the post 2 or 3 after his tell him it was a voluntary levy, I'm sure the decision on the levy was taken democratically at the time, if you're not happy with the way elected reps are running the organisation, elect someone else...simples
Incidentally I want an answer to the question in bold before you shoot ff on another rant

What about an answer to where is all the money gone? If its still there, IFA should give it back to its farmers. If EIF is 3m +, and investments FBD etc, membership, and officers not getting paid, and you already said theres no "warchest" , but its small, have IFA been robbed, did they report this crime?? IFA are quids in this year too, given the 120k extra cattle this year to date. IFJ editor asked questions about EIF some weeks ago, and I didn't see an IFA response to those questions either. you say IFA doesn't run on fresh air, well lets see where all their income is been spent and on whom? is there something to hide Rangler?

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

What about an answer to where is all the money gone? If its still there, IFA should give it back to its farmers. If EIF is 3m +, and investments FBD etc, membership, and officers not getting paid, and you already said theres no "warchest" , but its small, have IFA been robbed, did they report this crime?? IFA are quids in this year too, given the 120k extra cattle this year to date. IFJ editor asked questions about EIF some weeks ago, and I didn't see an IFA response to those questions either. you say IFA doesn't run on fresh air, well lets see where all their income is been spent and on whom? is there something to hide Rangler?

You're twisting again, I said we're not paid for protests, look if you don't trust it's as well you elect someone else, The editor sits in on our Nat Exec, he can ask himself
Anyone can have my job, I'm not bothered about funding, I'm getting value for money on my membership, I guess that should be enough

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

You're twisting again, I said we're not paid for protests, look if you don't trust it's as well you elect someone else, The editor sits in on our Nat Exec, he can ask himself

your a good sport, but when your in a corner, and the questions are too heavy, take out the mud-slinger....I can take it, but don't see any point in continuing to ask questions that wont be answered straight

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

your a good sport, but when your in a corner, and the questions are too heavy, take out the mud-slinger....I can take it, but don't see any point in continuing to ask questions that wont be answered straight

I

I'm not an accountant, it doesn't worry me, I've said what it costs me to be a member, I'm not going to be too fussed about a €60 levy

bogman_bass

Where does tyhe money go? Do you think that staff and an office in the farm center pay for themselves?

Micheal O'Leary is no charity and if we want somebody to Lobby for us in Brussles that'll cost money too.

I'm sure officers get milage and so they should. Why should it cost them money to give up their free time to represent us?

Nettleman

bogman_bass wrote: »

Where does tyhe money go? Do you think that staff and an office in the farm center pay for themselves?

Micheal O'Leary is no charity and if we want somebody to Lobby for us in Brussles that'll cost money too.

I'm sure officers get milage and so they should. Why should it cost them money to give up their free time to represent us?

Jayses, Publish the accounts, if theres nothing to hide, then what the problem. Theres such defensive attitude here that leads me to suspect there is something the IFA want to hide from farmers. Nobody expects anyone to work for nothing, but if farmers have been pouring money into a bottomless pit, they are entitled to know whether they are getting value. It was reported recently that Brussells office costs 200k pa to run, but EIF is north of 3m. is farm centre really needed and all the staff in it, The IFA should carry out a full independent root and branch review, are they fit for purpose for the future, the past cost must be significant and the results are paltry imo. In fact, don't carry out a review, Let IFA go further out of touch, and extinct. Income of farmers is not the IFA's top priority, if it is, then they have failed miserably. As I already said, I'm done with this, I am getting anywhere. I have to accept IFA will not publish accounts, shun transparency and that's that.

Abfg

Nettleman wrote: »

Jayses, Publish the accounts, if theres nothing to hide, then what the problem. Theres such defensive attitude here that leads me to suspect there is something the IFA want to hide from farmers. Nobody expects anyone to work for nothing, but if farmers have been pouring money into a bottomless pit, they are entitled to know whether they are getting value. It was reported recently that Brussells office costs 200k pa to run, but EIF is north of 3m. is farm centre really needed and all the staff in it, The IFA should carry out a full independent root and branch review, are they fit for purpose for the future, the past cost must be significant and the results are paltry imo. In fact, don't carry out a review, Let IFA go further out of touch, and extinct. Income of farmers is not the IFA's top priority, if it is, then they have failed miserably. As I already said, I'm done with this, I am getting anywhere. I have to accept IFA will not publish accounts, shun transparency and that's that.

Nettleman forget about the IFA they are a band of crooks lining they're own pockets at the expense of the majority of people they are supposed to represent.
They wont publish accounts because with the state of farming in the country at the moment it would probably cause a riot and farmers would look for their money back!!!
As I said before if they were packed up and disbanded in the morning would we be getting any less for our livestock, currently running at around 1988 levels!!!!!!

tanko

rangler1 wrote: »

Didn't the post 2 or 3 after his tell him it was a voluntary levy, I'm sure the decision on the levy was taken democratically at the time, if you're not happy with the way elected reps are running the organisation, elect someone else...simples
Incidentally I want an answer to the question in bold before you shoot ff on another rant

It is not a voluntary levy. The money is stolen from the farmers cheque without them being consulted first. When they discover this theft, they have to go looking for their money back.

rangler1

Abfg wrote: »

Nettleman forget about the IFA they are a band of crooks lining they're own pockets at the expense of the majority of people they are supposed to represent.
They wont publish accounts because with the state of farming in the country at the moment it would probably cause a riot and farmers would look for their money back!!!
As I said before if they were packed up and disbanded in the morning would we be getting any less for our livestock, currently running at around 1988 levels!!!!!!

Sure I'll need a few euro when I go back to my nice sheep enterprise and my nice SFP etc, etc
Looking at another business at the moment, no future in this farming is there

Abfg

rangler1 wrote: »

Sure I'll need a few euro when I go back to my nice sheep enterprise and my nice SFP etc, etc
Looking at another business at the moment, no future in this farming is there

More waffle and bull sh1t from the IFA.

Not too long ago Kenny and Coveny were proclamating how the agri-sector was going to be a key player in returning the country to prosperity. Food harvest 2020 provides for a 50% increase in beef production? (Yes that's right 50 %!!!!!)
With live export closed to the UK and Larry with a total monopoly on beef processing,rendering of offal and feedlots where is the future for the beef farmer.
No wonder Larry made representation to keep this clown as minister for agriculture during the recent reshuffle.
If he gets another two years of status quo he'll have total control. Would'nt like to be contract feeding cattle for him when that happens????????

Tokyo

Abfg wrote: »

More rambling nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Abfg wrote: »

And more nonsense!!! Struggling a bit????????

Abfg, we get it, you don't like Larry, or the IFA. And you're welcome to argue that point if you keep it civil, but no more personal comments on other posters. Carded for above, and next time you'll be asked not to post again.

Regards,
Mike

I said

ICSA moves to implement withdrawal from Quality Assurance Scheme
http://www.agriland.ie/news/icsa-moves-implement-withdrawal-quality-assurance-scheme/
I wonder will it stir things up?Something to work along side the protests outside the retailers.

rangler1

I said wrote: »

ICSA moves to implement withdrawal from Quality Assurance Scheme
http://www.agriland.ie/news/icsa-moves-implement-withdrawal-quality-assurance-scheme/
I wonder will it stir things up?Something to work along side the protests outside the retailers.

Anyone in Dundalk today, couldn't make it, I thought it was Tesco, but it was dunnes. It doesn't look great for Tesco agreeing to the new labelling system for beef born in the south and finished in the north
Factories would be in the **** now, if farmers throw out the QA

tomwaterford

rangler1 wrote: »

Anyone in Dundalk today, couldn't make it, I thought it was Tesco, but it was dunnes. It doesn't look great for Tesco agreeing to the new labelling system for beef born in the south and finished in the north
Factories would be in the **** now, if farmers throw out the QA

what if factories go into a face-off and refuse to accept non QA animals??

Abfg

mike_ie wrote: »

Abfg, we get it, you don't like Larry, or the IFA. And you're welcome to argue that point if you keep it civil, but no more personal comments on other posters. Carded for above, and next time you'll be asked not to post again.

Regards,
Mike

Mike nobody posting threads on here can justify what the IFA and the goverment are doing during this crisis in beef farming and this should be shouted from the roof tops at every opportunity!!!!!!!!!!
All you have is lads trying to avoid answering questions and posting bullsh1t because they have ran out of excuses and are "struggling" to justify they're point of view or indeed the organisation they belong to.
I just highlighted in the qoutes you referenced when this was obviously happening!
If you read what I replied to you can hardly disagree????
Come to think of it maybe I should have called it HORSE SH1T !!!!!!!!!!!!!

sandydan

tomwaterford wrote: »

what if factories go into a face-off and refuse to accept non QA animals??

how could they justify that in face of fact that farms are what is certified QA but not all if any animals are paid for as QA beef while they market it as such.

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

what if factories go into a face-off and refuse to accept non QA animals??

Then farmers would be in the ####
Don't think farmers will drop QA though

tomwaterford

sandydan wrote: »

how could they justify that in face of fact that farms are what is certified QA but not all if any animals are paid for as QA beef while they market it as such.

im just making the small point that it is naïve of farm organisations to withdraw there animals from factories (what I read it as)...without having some sort of alternative viable market for the animals

rangler1

Abfg wrote: »

Mike nobody posting threads on here can justify what the IFA and the goverment are doing during this crisis in beef farming and this should be shouted from the roof tops at every opportunity!!!!!!!!!!
All you have is lads trying to avoid answering questions and posting bullsh1t because they have ran out of exuses and are "struggling" to justify they're point of view or indeed the organisation they belong to.
I just highlighted in the qoutes you referenced when this was obviously happening!
If you read what I replied to you can hardly disagree????
Come to think of it maybe I should have called it HORSE SH1T !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Abusive posts don't deserve proper answers
AAH I see, problem solved

grassroot1

The problem is we do the same thing over and over again and expect things to change that's the part that kills me!

rangler1

sandydan wrote: »

how could they justify that in face of fact that farms are what is certified QA but not all if any animals are paid for as QA beef while they market it as such.

What grades and weights get QA bonus now

Kevin the sheep

tomwaterford wrote: »

im just making the small point that it is naïve of farm organisations to withdraw there animals from factories (what I read it as)...without having some sort of alternative viable market for the animals

Put all stock true mart and make them bid against each other for them then they will have mart fees and also have the fee of transport to factory might change there tune