Beef in Crisis

rangler1

Farrell wrote: »

I thought that too, maybe there's no formula for under €5000

10ha at 240 came up with the same reduction, 227/ha

paddysdream

rangler1 wrote: »

10ha at 240 came up with the same reduction, 227/ha

The cuts for young farmers,reserve fund,energy crops etc, affect everyone I think,not just those on 5k plus ala modulation.
Think those amount to about 8% or so.

sandydan

rangler1 wrote: »

10ha at 240 came up with the same reduction, 227/ha

had a quick go at it, if ive done it right based on small number of entitlement at high value im facing cut of over 40% of total payments in line with what i was told i could expect when new payments schedule was implemented when i went about correcting a max penalty on basis Dept cut paddock in 2 due to farmyard mapping,(dept inspector checked and estimated area) anyway end result one paddock area over calculated other under , penalty on whole payments based on percentage of over calculation on that paddock percentage wise. will get advisor to check again for me, as you said my effort to explain was brutal, maybe i got it wrong, but so are cuts .as i said certain criteria apply for those who may benefit but i wont. must check with friend said payments were cut off, reason was health related, but under-stocking was reason payments were cut , partner bought 14 month cattle for fattening ,diagnosed with cancer and sold all stock almost immediatly at massive loss, tried appealing but i dont know if successful or not

paddysdream

sandydan wrote: »

had a quick go at it, if ive done it right based on small number of entitlement at high value im facing cut of over 40% of total payments in line with what i was told i could expect when new payments schedule was implemented when i went about correcting a max penalty on basis Dept cut paddock in 2 due to farmyard mapping,(dept inspector checked and estimated area) anyway end result one paddock area over calculated other under , penalty on whole payments based on percentage of over calculation on that paddock percentage wise. will get advisor to check again for me, as you said my effort to explain was brutal, maybe i got it wrong, but so are cuts .as i said certain criteria apply for those who may benefit but i wont. must check with friend said payments were cut off, reason was health related, but under-stocking was reason payments were cut , partner bought 14 month cattle for fattening ,diagnosed with cancer and sold all stock almost immediatly at massive loss, tried appealing but i dont know if successful or not

Would that be DAS payment your friend had a problem with ?

Anyways those to benefit under the new scheme are those in the main who;

Are qualified for young farmer top up.
Who have smaller than average payment per hectare at the moment ie entitlements of 200 or less per hectare.
Who have a lot of naked hectares.

paddysdream

Anyone read AA Gill's column in todays Sunday Times?

Has a bit about steak/cattle age/breed etc.Worth a look.

Reggie.

paddysdream wrote: »

Anyone read AA Gill's column in todays Sunday Times?

Has a bit about steak/cattle age/breed etc.Worth a look.

What's the quick review

freedominacup

Reggie. wrote: »

What's the quick review

We have changed from producing beef with real taste and a character of its own to "the worst beef industry in Europe". If you take it that by extension due to our exposure to the UK markets we are part of that industry.

"The old slow muscled breeds, the long hard carcasses are the stuff of advertising and memory" he says. He has no problem with 36 month old cattle in fact he sees it as a plus. He goes on to say that commercially bred beef in the UK is nothing like as good as the best available from the southern hemisphere. But he lays the blame for this at farmers door, unfairly imv and evidence of a lack of research. The lack of research is understandable as this is a restaurant review not some investigative piece. Giving him the beef he wants would mean tearing up the supermarket specs and disposing of all of the continental sucklers in the country. Go back to the traditional breeds and finishing big old steers when they're ready. Leave the continental crosses to the dairy farmers. There might be something in it but only in conjunction with a real brand and marketing campaign. Btw he rubbished the current AA scheme in a sentence. Counterintuitively he would probably be an ideal brand ambassador if farmers were serious about developing a brand with a real usp.

Markcheese

There probably should be multiple markets for multiple types of beef... Don't know if the consumer Is informed enough for this yet.. I can go into my local supermarket and buy 1 of about 4 different types of whole chicken with different specs/sizes ranging from 3 euro something to 18 euro... And that's good in my opinion...
But the guy doing a 10 euro free range one wouldn't last 10 mins trying to sell his product as a 2 for a fiver bird...
Differentiation... But if there's no market the factories won't pay a premium for 3 or 4 year old ,traditional breeds,finished on grass.... (

freedominacup

Markcheese wrote: »

There probably should be multiple markets for multiple types of beef... Don't know if the consumer Is informed enough for this yet.. I can go into my local supermarket and buy 1 of about 4 different types of whole chicken with different specs/sizes ranging from 3 euro something to 18 euro... And that's good in my opinion...
But the guy doing a 10 euro free range one wouldn't last 10 mins trying to sell his product as a 2 for a fiver bird...
Differentiation... But if there's no market the factories won't pay a premium for 3 or 4 year old ,traditional breeds,finished on grass.... (

The restaurant he was reviewing made a big play of the fact that it was 36 month old steer beef they were selling snd from trad breeds. Very highly regarded but didn't get a great review in this case.

coolshannagh28

Theres a steak revolution going on in upmarket and niche restaurants in the UK based around rare and traditional breeds ,dry and salt ageing and long hanging times ,AA Gill made reference to it but is a scathing critic and has pointed out the shortcomings. I said it before the best steak I ever ate was in an Argentinian restaurant in Almeria and have not tasted anything close in Ireland ,Gill contends that the southern hemisphere is years ahead in breeding and grass finishing and rubbished the AA scheme . However this trend will eventually hit the mainstream mass market and its obvious that the processors are aware of it hence the push on weight specs and breed ,it seems the future is about taste and eating quality and most of the Irish suckler herd does not meet Gills criteria or that of the processors.

rangler1

This was in the Irish Times lately, not often they give the industry praise

''Fairness for farmers
Agriculture and the food and drinks industry represent the most important parts of the domestic economy, providing 10 per cent of all employment and underpinning local communities. They are interdependent operations that complement and, on occasion, go to war with each other. In recent years, factory and retail elements have become more aggressive in setting prices and it is vital to ensure that farmers receive a fair return. Governments have been reluctant to get involved and it may require intervention at EU level to promote greater equity.

Industry offers opportunity, through added value and new products. For too long, government policy concentrated on maximising farm output, rather than encouraging the innovative use of raw materials. That balance has changed, to the benefit of all concerned. The impact was evident at the National Ploughing Championships when hundreds of commercial organisations displayed expensive products and high-tech machinery and farm families enjoyed the largest outdoor exhibition and agricultural trade show in Europe.

For the past three years, beef and sheep farmers have had a tough time. Some of it was weather-related, arising from a shortage of winter fodder and the cost of emergency feedstuffs. That situation was compounded when a decline in the consumption of beef and lamb within Europe, combined with overproduction, saw factory prices fall. What infuriated many farmers was that while animal prices fell dramatically, the cost of finished products in supermarkets remained relatively static.

There has been talk of beef farmers abandoning the State’s quality assurance scheme in protest at this situation. That would be a mistake. It would jeopardise Ireland’s hard-won image as a producer of traceable, premium beef and leave farmers and factories vulnerable in the event of a future scandal involving meat products. Farming has become a two-speed business. While beef and sheep farmers are struggling, the dairy sector is powering ahead and gearing up for the removal of a EU cap on milk production. As with the beef sector, however, where output was planned to rise by 20 per cent, there may be unforeseen risks. Farming is a cyclical business. Inherent price uncertainty has been exaggerated by international speculative trading, the concentration of plant ownership and climate change.

In meeting future challenges, a closer and more equitable relationship between Irish producers and processors will be required. The development of new food products, preservation techniques and health supplements will provide impetus for the sector, supported by international marketing. Existing farmer/factory tensions should be resolved. It is only through collaboration and a planned approach that the sector’s long-term potential will be realised.''

Farmer Pudsey

paddysdream wrote: »

Anyone read AA Gill's column in todays Sunday Times?

Has a bit about steak/cattle age/breed etc.Worth a look.

What section of the Sunday times is that in

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Theres a steak revolution going on in upmarket and niche restaurants in the UK based around rare and traditional breeds ,dry and salt ageing and long hanging times ,AA Gill made reference to it but is a scathing critic and has pointed out the shortcomings. I said it before the best steak I ever ate was in an Argentinian restaurant in Almeria and have not tasted anything close in Ireland ,Gill contends that the southern hemisphere is years ahead in breeding and grass finishing and rubbished the AA scheme . However this trend will eventually hit the mainstream mass market and its obvious that the processors are aware of it hence the push on weight specs and breed ,it seems the future is about taste and eating quality and most of the Irish suckler herd does not meet Gills criteria or that of the processors.

Best steak I ate in a while that was bought in a supermarket was a Ribeye steak out of ALDI. It had flavour and was aged long enough to be tender.

Connemara Farmer

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

best steak I ever ate was in an Argentinian restaurant in Almeria

Similar to that best steak I ever had was in an Argentinian restaurant except in Alicante.

Count Mondego

freedominacup wrote: »

The restaurant he was reviewing made a big play of the fact that it was 36 month old steer beef they were selling snd from trad breeds. Very highly regarded but didn't get a great review in this case.

What that restaurant Hawksmoor in London? Was there about 3 years ago and the steak was exceptional. Heard that it's not as good lately though.

coolshannagh28

Count Mondego wrote: »

Was that restaurant Hawksmoor in London? Was there about 3 years ago and the steak was exceptional. Heard that it's not as good lately though.

Hawksmoor alright but bear in mind that AA Gill is a searing critic and is in a position to say what he likes in a very subjective manner.

freedominacup

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Hawksmoor alright but bear in mind that AA Gill is a searing critic and is in a position to say what he likes in a very subjective manner.

Yeah but he's as cool as fcuk. I'd read him critiquing paint drying. He's in that position because he takes no prisoners. Imagine the boost if he endorsed your brand

leg wax

did anyone see the figures for suckler cow numbers in either brazil or was it argentina ,the exspansion of numbers is just mind blowing, i think they were saying numbers to explode by 20 million extra cows in 10 years,has anyone got the right numbers.they will supply cheap beef for the world to eat ,very little fert used, housing under a tree ,its sounds like nicer beef than ours.

Reggie.

leg wax wrote: »

did anyone see the figures for suckler cow numbers in either brazil or was it argentina ,the exspansion of numbers is just mind blowing, i think they were saying numbers to explode by 20 million extra cows in 10 years,has anyone got the right numbers.they will supply cheap beef for the world to eat ,very little fert used, housing under a tree ,its sounds like nicer beef than ours.

Might be better off becoming a dairy country

cj maxx

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Theres a steak revolution going on in upmarket and niche restaurants in the UK based around rare and traditional breeds ,dry and salt ageing and long hanging times ,AA Gill made reference to it but is a scathing critic and has pointed out the shortcomings. I said it before the best steak I ever ate was in an Argentinian restaurant in Almeria and have not tasted anything close in Ireland ,Gill contends that the southern hemisphere is years ahead in breeding

and grass finishing and rubbished the AA scheme . However this trend will eventually hit the mainstream mass market and its obvious that the processors are aware of it hence the push on weight specs and breed ,it seems the future is about taste and eating quality and most of the Irish suckler herd does not meet Gills criteria or that of the processors.

What are the breed that do meet thos criteria ?

TITANIUM.

leg wax wrote: »

did anyone see the figures for suckler cow numbers in either brazil or was it argentina ,the exspansion of numbers is just mind blowing, i think they were saying numbers to explode by 20 million extra cows in 10 years,has anyone got the right numbers.they will supply cheap beef for the world to eat ,very little fert used, housing under a tree ,its sounds like nicer beef than ours.

Yes and very strict health and safety controls of course.

Muckit

Our usp is our green image ( grass and hormone free). We're never going to be able to compete with volume. But that's ok so long as there continues to be customers looking for a premium product.

Reggie.

Muckit wrote: »

Our usp is our green image ( grass and hormone free). We're never going to be able to compete with volume. But that's ok so long as there continues to be customers looking for a premium product.

Hopefully

coolshannagh28

cjmc wrote: »

What are the breed that do meet thos criteria ?

Hereford and angus followed by shorthorn, Galloway, devon red and minority breeds

Muckit

I wouldn't mind going back to bwh's. Remember having them here on the farm as a young lad. Nice cattle.

amacca

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Hereford and angus followed by shorthorn, Galloway, devon red and minority breeds

How would dexter fare?

+ Hereford purebred or hereford crosses - like say a hereford out of a british freisan?

Muckit wrote: »

I wouldn't mind going back to bwh's. Remember having them here on the farm as a young lad. Nice cattle.

usually have a great temperament and you can get some great bwh animals although I always feel when I sell great specimens in the mart I'm getting punished by up to a 100 euros ahead purely because of the breed or breed snobbishness rather than the quality of the animal

TUBBY

Muckit wrote: »

I wouldn't mind going back to bwh's. Remember having them here on the farm as a young lad. Nice cattle.

different cattle now though muckit than that time. Hard get beef hx anywhere much. Lot of tall leggy lads around.
sayong that, i have some and i think they still finish handier than the angus.
also as a breed the quietest you could ever have....

Willfarman

The Hereford breed qaulity has really slipped over the years. The good breeders years ago found they couldn't sell bulls and moved on to continentals. A lot of pedigree Hereford heifers would struggle to grade an r. Judging from what I have seen at shows and sales.

coolshannagh28

amacca wrote: »

How would dexter fare?

Kept a lot of Dexters myself mainly for the huge subsidy in REPS 3 and still have 30 or so ,good demand for beef and its highly regarded but small carcass. Very low maintenance on very rough ground and an intelligent cow nearly like a dog in nature.

Willfarman

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

amacca wrote: »

How would dexter fare?

Kept a lot of Dexters myself mainly for the huge subsidy in REPS 3 and still have 30 or so ,good demand for beef and its highly regarded but small carcass. Very low maintenance on very rough ground and an intelligent cow nearly like a dog in nature.

Definitely potential there for a regional unique brand of beef. Where do you sell?

coolshannagh28

Willfarman wrote: »

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Definitely potential there for a regional unique brand of beef. Where do you sell?

Butcher with a chain of restaurants and also a farm shop in the north