why the rise in anti semitism in Europe?

lufties

Especially in France, Is it because of what is happening in Israel currently or a backlash due to zionist globists?

smash

Just because people are pissed off and appaled with what the zionists in Israel are doing, it doesn't mean they're anti semite!

FloatingVoter

It was always there. Seething beneath the surface. Plenty of normal people are pissed off with the Israelis over the current crisis. However antisemitism in Europe can be tracked back centuries. Ironically, in the days of Saladin (c.1200 ?), Jews found more tolerance in the middle east.

Nodin

lufties wrote: »

Especially in France, Is it because of what is happening in Israel currently or a backlash due to zionist globists?

Assholes think Jews=Israel, essentially.

hatrickpatrick

Firstly define anti-Semitism. Secondly, if we're talking about true anti-Semitism, it's akin to worldwide dislike of Muslims because of what Al Qaeda did - moronic and extremely unhelpful bullsh!t.

krudler

You can be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic ya know.

johnnyskeleton

krudler wrote: »

You can be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic ya know.

I assume hes talking about the recent attacks on synagogues in france and germany

RustyNut

Nodin wrote: »

Assholes think Jews=Israel, essentially.

And play right into the zionists hands, the rise of antisemitism in europe suits the zionists down to the ground.

FloatingVoter

The whole Zionist tag leaves a bad taste when I hear it. It was used and abused by some goosesteppers in Germany. It makes an otherwise convincing argument against Israeli actions sound like a Goebbels broadcast.

RustyNut

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The whole Zionist tag leaves a bad taste when I hear it. It was used and abused by some goosesteppers in Germany. It makes an otherwise convincing argument against Israeli actions sound like a Goebbels broadcast.

I posted this in another thread but it is informative on the subject of zionism.

Philo Beddoe

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The whole Zionist tag leaves a bad taste when I hear it. It was used and abused by some goosesteppers in Germany. It makes an otherwise convincing argument against Israeli actions sound like a Goebbels broadcast.

I know what you mean. I hear the word Zionist used and I'm immediately on my guard for conspiracy theories about 'International Jewry' and the banking system.

Spring Onion

J'accuse!

Larbre34

Funny thing about the French, they have a strong anti-Israel cohort (manifested in lazy anti-semitism) because of attacks on muslim Palestine, yet they are even worse at attacking Muslims in France itself!

C'est contredire.

Larbre34

Sir Jimmy Saville (RIP) was also anti-semetic.

"Rattle, rattle, jewry, jewry" he used to warn.....

FloatingVoter

Larbre34 wrote: »

Sir Jimmy Saville (RIP) was also anti-semetic.

"Rattle, rattle, jewry, jewry" he used to warn.....

We're gonna need a Godwins law for that waste of skin but it doesn't surprise me. Actually, a complete list of what he was for and against would save me a lot of time. I'll just do the opposite.

wp_rathead

Unfort alot of these groups and individuals hijack legitimate Gaza-Solidarity marches

lufties

krudler wrote: »

You can be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic ya know.

Yes, I agree..its quite obvious that zionists are in elitist positions worldwide, controlling things. I really don't get their obsession with money and power. Ordinary innocent jews are feeling the brunt of this backlash which is sad.

super_furry

There is a deliberate effort by many, including some in the media, to blur the lines between anti-Israel sentiment and anti-Semitism.

bumper234

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I assume hes talking about the recent attacks on synagogues in france and germany

Yet no one ever mentions the attacks on mosques.

Nodin

super_furry wrote: »

There is a deliberate effort by many, including some in the media, to blur the lines between anti-Israel sentiment and anti-Semitism.

Occasionally it descends into parody. They accused Jimmy "Historys greatest monster" Carter of being a Nazi sympathiser, Norman Finkelstein as being a holocaust denier (his mother is a camp survivor).

Awkward Badger

These things usually happen in times of conflict. Same as there was a rise in racism and hatred towards Muslims after 9/11. Idiots looking for excuses to be idiots.

Badly Drunk Boy

When I was in college many years ago, there was a book in my favourite corner of one of the libraries called 'Anti-semitism Since 410 BC'. I never read it but I did have a look through the odd time. So it's not as if it's a new thing. The Persians and the Egyptians weren't mad about the Jews, back in the day...

RustyNut

super_furry wrote: »

There is a deliberate effort by many, including some in the media, to blur the lines between anti-Israel sentiment and anti-Semitism.

The israeli ambassador said that the dublin protesters were "blind,ignorant,hate filled anti semites" during an interview on the Pat Kenny show last week.

FloatingVoter

Awkward Badger wrote: »

These things usually happen in times of conflict. Same as there was a rise in racism and hatred towards Muslims after 9/11. Idiots looking for excuses to be idiots.

Yes. The same clowns who are antisemitic now were anti-muslim then. They're easy to spot. They are against everything now. A bit like people who change football teams every year depending on how "we" are doing in the Premiership.

SpaceTime

Never underestimate the level of stupidity of an angry mob. They tend to be formed from by people who aren't really the brightest or most analytical about things.

See: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society (They attacked a paediatrician thinking that the word meant pedophile!)

Some people are stupid / uneducated enough to assume that Israeli foreign policy has a connection to local Jewish populations in their own countries. Or that local Jews have some kind of control over it.

Also, you've got some genuinely scary antisemitic neo-nazism on the continent which is using this as an excuse to attack local Jewish stuff. The irony is that the exact same neo nazis are anti any immigrant group you can think of too, so they're hardly justifying their actions as defence of Palestinians. They'd just as soon attack Islamic symbols too.

Then you've got the fact that pro-Israeli spokespersons are deliberately hiding their foreign policy behind a notion that any critique of Israel is anti-Semitism which is actually creating serious problems for the many Jews who would be pretty strongly opposed to what's going on in Palestine and also to Jewish communities who have nothing to do with Israel or its government's policies.

Then you've also got Islamic extremists who are anti-Israeli and are expressing that by attacking Jewish stuff in Europe or the US etc.

This kind of thing is also ignoring the fact that there are significant numbers of Jews in Israel itself who are actively protesting against what's going on. These people need support as they're being sidelined quite viciously in some cases by the status-quo in Israel at present.

If you're Jewish by religious background and opposed to all this kind of violence and the rather obnoxious and oppressive policies that Israel is using against the Palestinian population or even if you just don't have a particularly strong opinion on it, but aren't in favour of it, you're in a pretty bad place right now due to all the attempts to link the two by various parties!

I keep having to pull people up when discussing this. Jewish ≠ blind support for the Israeli Government.

DarkyHughes

lufties wrote: »

Especially in France, Is it because of what is happening in Israel currently or a backlash due to zionist globists?

Because the Zionist lobby propaganda machine try to make people believe a Zionist & a Jew is the same thing so they can attack people who criticize Israel by calling them anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish or crap like that.

SpaceTime

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Because the Zionist lobby propaganda machine try to make people believe a Zionist & a Jew is the same thing so they can attack people who criticize Israel by calling them anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish or crap like that.

It seems that anyone in Israel who is strongly opposed to this lobby (and there are quite a significant number of people who are) are getting a really seriously hard time.

There have been cases of Israeli journalists who wrote pieces critical of the government being attacked by angry protesters and stuff like that!

Karl Stein

super_furry wrote: »

There is a deliberate effort by many, including some in the media, to blur the lines between anti-Israel sentiment and anti-Semitism.

You can include people like Netenyahoooo in that group too.

jank

You won't hear it in the mainstream media but the increase of immigration by Muslims has a bearing on this, especially in France and Holland. Recently, a proposed 'free Gaza' event in Holland turned out to be a Pro-ISIS march with onlookers horrified and the local government embarrassed.

SpaceTime

It's not much different to making the assumption (as many people do) that every Irish person is foaming at the mouth with anti-British hatred and is a staunch supporter of the IRA. Different context, but similarly something that a lot of Irish people wouldn't necessarily want to be associated with or might actively oppose.

I've had that assumption made about me by people in Spain, in the US and elsewhere in the past and it's really annoying so, I can fully appreciate where the non-Israeli Government supporting jews of the world feel.

Or the other assumption is that you're a really right wing, conservative Catholic just because you're Irish.

Stereotypes generally are just lazy, stupid and ignorant.

I had a dinner in the US with a family where they tried to stuff me with corned beef and cabbage, then got angry with me because I couldn't say grace (I wouldn't know where to start and I'm an atheist anyway), then called my Irishness into question because I wasn't catholic!

So, I think of all countries, we should have some kind of an appreciation of how it might feel to be a Jew who doesn't agree with Israeli policy.

DarkyHughes

FloatingVoter wrote: »

It was always there. Seething beneath the surface. Plenty of normal people are pissed off with the Israelis over the current crisis. However antisemitism in Europe can be tracked back centuries. Ironically, in the days of Saladin (c.1200 ?), Jews found more tolerance in the middle east.

That's why there is so many Jews to be found in the Middle east today because when Christianity returned to Spain when the Muslims left the Jews left with them because they were terrified of the antisemitism that would be unleashed on them. It's only since Britain's double dealing in the Middle East after WW1 that Jews & Muslims have been fighting on a large scale.

Wibbs

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

So it's not as if it's a new thing. The Persians and the Egyptians weren't mad about the Jews, back in the day...

Oh it most certainly is not a new thing, though I'd strongly argue that anti Semitism wasn't in play back in the days of Persia and ancient Egypt. Far more a case of "those irritating bastards on our borders. Here Ptolemy we need slaves don't we" and they would have applied that to any group beyond their borders, Hittites etc. The records left by the Jews of the time(naturally) tend to over egg their importance(IE Moses and the exodus. Huge deal for the Jews of the time, the Egyptians don't seem to notice it one bit). Ditto for the later Romans. "If you ain't with us you're a bunch o ****" basically. It wasn't nearly as focused anti Semitism as it came to be. That came post Christianity with the might of Rome behind it. The Romans were always a bit paranoid about sub cultures within Rome. Convinced they'd take over(in the case of the Christians they turned out to be right).

When Christianity becomes the state religion they needed to feed that innate paranoia of the mob and this required a scapegoat. Who better than a bunch of people who according to your holy books* offed your prophet/god and who were in actuality a zero threat to Rome(who had leveled Palestine a couple of centuries earlier. Real salt the earth time). They continued to be the fall guys throughout European history. When it suited of course. The ever present Jew, the danger within. This forced Jews as a group to tend to isolate themselves which ramped up this danger within BS.

Then the 20th century comes in and the various "isms" that all pretty much tarred Jews as the danger within. The Fascists and the Communists both. Pretty much everything that jumped up fcuktard Hitler did had been done before. Isolating Jews into ghettos? Check. Pogroms? Check. Forced emigration? Check. Forcing Jews to wear a yellow marker? Check(Way back in the 18th century it was Irish politicians who protested this and tried to get it repealed in london parliament. Later on O'Connell fought for Irish Jews as well as Irish Catholics). Hitler's final solution is known as that because it was the final solution in a long line of historical solutions.

Today? The old enmities come up as before. Israel's actions have ironically helped the cause and their own with it. Vicious bloody circle of historical daftness all over bronze age books written by hill farmers.



*in the books they're set up as the fallguys ina particularly obvious manner. QV the trial by Pilate. Never happened, but shows Rome washing it's hands(literally) of the whole mess and laying it on the Jews.

puzzle_box

its not limited to the israel issue , in the usa , the vast vast majority of americans firmly back israel yet their is still plenty of anti semetism in america

why ?

because the percentage of jews who head major wall st firms is huge , therefore during the likes of the global banking crisis, ill feeling towards jews rose

i have a lot of time for jews but they are quite cliquey and tend to promote each other , hence why certain sectors tend to have a disproportionate level of jews

hollywood
wall st
media

My name is URL

puzzle_box wrote: »

because the percentage of jews who head major wall st firms is huge , therefore during the likes of the global banking crisis, ill feeling towards jews rose

There are far more people of Irish (catholic) than Jewish 'heritage' in powerful positions in the US yet you never hear people claim that there's some latent plan for Irish world domination =/

The first 3 people in the United States presidential line of succession are all of Irish descent.. if ya want to talk about disproportionate =p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#Current_order

puzzle_box

the last three chairpersons of the federal reserve ( including the current one janet yellen ) were jewish

jews make up nearly 15% of congress despite only making up 2% of the population

the average jew in america has an income which is double the average income

40% of american billionaires are jewish

proportionately , jews are much more influential and powerful in america than catholics

btw , well done to them , they know how to network like no other ethnic - cultural group , ireland should try and tap into its diaspora like the jews have globally

SpaceTime

Shhh!!
Everyone keep drinking Guinness and painting stuff green, sure we're great craic altogether and it's absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with soft power.

Rucking_Fetard

Anti this and zio this...havent a clue what you're on about.

Doubt many do.

Teyla Emmagan

puzzle_box wrote: »

because the percentage of jews who head major wall st firms is huge , therefore during the likes of the global banking crisis, ill feeling towards jews rose

That was always the reason for Jewish discrimination historically, 'they have all the money and they're (therefore) keeping it from us'. If I were part of a religious minority that had been persecuted for hundreds of years I would be keeping my resources close to my chest too.

puzzle_box

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

That was always the reason for Jewish discrimination historically, 'they have all the money and they're (therefore) keeping it from us'. If I were part of a religious minority that had been persecuted for hundreds of years I would be keeping my resources close to my chest too.

its not so much about them having money , its about the networks of finance they have sewn up amongst themselves

wall st is jewish through and through

lufties

puzzle_box wrote: »

its not limited to the israel issue , in the usa , the vast vast majority of americans firmly back israel yet their is still plenty of anti semetism in america

why ?

because the percentage of jews who head major wall st firms is huge , therefore during the likes of the global banking crisis, ill feeling towards jews rose

i have a lot of time for jews but they are quite cliquey and tend to promote each other , hence why certain sectors tend to have a disproportionate level of jews

hollywood
wall st
media

Did woodrow wilson not sign over the federal reserve to a cabal of jewish bankers?

Nodin

puzzle_box wrote: »

the last three chairpersons of the federal reserve ( including the current one janet yellen ) were jewish

jews make up nearly 15% of congress despite only making up 2% of the population

the average jew in america has an income which is double the average income

proportionately , jews are much more influential and powerful in america than catholics

....which is why theres been so many Jewish Presidents, vice Presidents

hatrickpatrick

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The whole Zionist tag leaves a bad taste when I hear it. It was used and abused by some goosesteppers in Germany. It makes an otherwise convincing argument against Israeli actions sound like a Goebbels broadcast.

What tag would you use to describe people who believe Israel has a right to confiscate land belonging to people of other ethnicities to make room for people of its own ethnicity?

If Zionism is too politically charged then we need a new word. Apparently ethnic cleansing is also too politically charged and personally I feel it's misleading, as the ethnic cleansing is not the purpose but a side effect of what is in effect an infantile sense of entitlement and lack of respect for the property rights of others.

If not Zionism, what are we to call it exactly?

puzzle_box

jews also tend to not work as primary producers , they were prevented from owning farm land and when they moved to other countries , they tended to settle in big cities , thus grew a reputation for making money off the labour of others toil , this is indeed a slur , what choice had they but to provider services rather than be a primary producer

begen and sharon ( two of israels former pm,s ) were big into the idea of returning jews to the soil , both were part time farmers

Wulfie

smash wrote: »

Just because people are pissed off and appaled with what the zionists in Israel are doing, it doesn't mean they're anti semite!

When you see their treatment of the indigenous people and their claim on land that's not their own.

Makes me wonder why the Nazis hated Jewish people .

Nodin

lufties wrote: »

Did woodrow wilson not sign over the federal reserve to a cabal of jewish bankers?

On the same day he promised the first born of every house to the martians.

Nodin

puzzle_box wrote: »

jews also tend to not work as primary producers , they were prevented from owning farm land .....

When? Where?

Wibbs

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

That was always the reason for Jewish discrimination historically, 'they have all the money and they're (therefore) keeping it from us'.

A good chunk of that historically came from usury AKA charging interest on loans was frowned upon by the church(as it is in Islam), so the Jews were a handy group to front such operations, often, if not usually in the early days with "christian" money bankrolling them, so when the crap hit the fan the Christians could point the finger at the "Usurer Jew" with plausible deniability, while creaming profits themselves. So over time Jews and banking and finance were heavily associated. Until the reformation anyway when all brakes were off.

Naturally they'd bring family and friends into the business. Happens with many ethnic groups, especially within diasporas. Take the Irish, they made up a huge chunk of the US police force to the degree that a slang term for policeman was a "shamus". Same with the building trade in the UK and US. Uncle Joe is in the force he'll get young Brian in kinda thing. Diasporas tend to work like that.

Jews in Hollywood? Again motion pictures weren't considered a worthy career or business to be getting involved with, if anything it was considered very non U, a step up from carnival worker, the glamour came later. Jews (and not just Jews) went west to get into the new business and built it up. Again if Uncle Joel is running a small studio then he'll get young Avner a gig. Hell I knew an non Jewish Irish bloke who got his foot in the door in US TV because his best mate growing up was a Jewish guy and some "uncle" or other gave him the nod cos he was "one of our own" by proxy. No doubt if back in the 20's a young Jewish lad wanted to get into the New York cops and his mate's dad was a sergeant in the force he'd get the nod too. Natural way people operate.

In many industries Jews have some prominence today because in many ways those industries were considered out of bounds and dodgy for Christian whites, but history proved them to be extremely good bets for the most part.

Wibbs

Nodin wrote: »

....which is why theres been so many Jewish Presidents, vice Presidents

My dad lived in New York in the early 60's and a work mate of his he used to go fishing with was Jewish and he was was a big supporter of JFK, as he said to my dad, "if they let an Irish Catholic into the Oval office maybe a Jew is next?". Kennedy was quite the shock for some of middle America at the time. That same mate of my dads tended to have invitations to company outings and the like get lost in the post. It wasn't overt, it was polite discrimination. Apparently this was pretty obvious stuff back then, and this was in New York which had and has a large Jewish population. I'd say in 1960's Texas you could triple that kinda thing.

Nodin

Wibbs wrote: »

My dad lived in New York in the early 60's and a work mate of his he used to go fishing with was Jewish and he was was a big supporter of JFK, as he said to my dad, "if they let an Irish Catholic into the Oval office maybe a Jew is next?". Kennedy was quite the shock for some of middle America at the time. That same mate of my dads tended to have invitations to company outings and the like get lost in the post. It wasn't overt, it was polite discrimination. Apparently this was pretty obvious stuff back then, and this was in New York which had and has a large Jewish population. I'd say in 1960's Texas you could triple that kinda thing.

O absolutely. It was only after wwII they started being discreet about it.

UCDVet

I guess I'm in the minority, but as far as races go, I have a lot of respect for Jews. If I could pick a race to be born into, I'd probably go with Jew.

Awkward Badger

UCDVet wrote: »

I guess I'm in the minority, but as far as races go, I have a lot of respect for Jews. If I could pick a race to be born into, I'd probably go with Jew.

I'd probably go with Elf.