Jamie Spencer

Peintre Celebre

Lol I didn't back the horse or even see the race so I'm not saying he'd have won or anything, but punters around the globe must be eagerly awaiting this fella's retirement. Comments on his ride in the Abbaye

'Held up towards rear on outer, nowhere to go from 1 1/2 furlongs out, never got a run'

NaiveMelodies

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Lol I didn't back the horse or even see the race so I'm not saying he'd have won or anything, but punters around the globe must be eagerly awaiting this fella's retirement. Comments on his ride in the Abbaye

'Held up towards rear on outer, nowhere to go from 1 1/2 furlongs out, never got a run'

Harsh enough considering the race was the one of the messiest I have ever seen.
Probably 6 or 7 jockeys in the same boat as Spencer in that one.

Peintre Celebre

only1stevo wrote: »

Harsh enough considering the race was the one of the messiest I have ever seen.
Probably 6 or 7 jockeys in the same boat as Spencer in that one.

Could happen any jockey but there isn't a jockey in the world that gets into trouble as much as him. That description above could apply to a lot of his rides. The filly in the Matron who finished on the bridle the other week, Queen Catrine beaten a short head at ascot after going around the whole field. Shocking

NaiveMelodies

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Could happen any jockey but there isn't a jockey in the world that gets into trouble as much as him. That description above could apply to a lot of his rides. The filly in the Matron who finished on the bridle the other week, Queen Catrine beaten a short head at ascot after going around the whole field. Shocking

I'm not defending Spencer on the whole, just saying todays race not the best example!

Francie Barrett

I defended him earlier, but he's been nothing short of a disgrace in the last few weeks. I think he's just clocking his card in until he can call it quits. You only need to look at his strike rate to see that (lowest % since he turned pro).

Shemale

"Lewes trainer Jim Best had revealed Spencer had contacted him for the ride on Lyssio (11-4), who was held up in last and could not make quite enough progress in the final stages to challenge the leading pack, which was headed by Declan Bates and The Sneezer (16-1)."

Story of his career, from ATR, cant post links

Andalucia

Spencer could get a horse beaten in a walkover, the most one-dimensional jockey ever that ever held a licence, where this notion of him being top class came from I can't fathom

Francie Barrett

Jamie Spencer's contract with Qatar Racing was not renewed, this why he retired.

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=4804224&category=0

tipptom

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Jamie Spencer's contract with Qatar Racing was not renewed, this why he retired.

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=4804224&category=0

Heard there was a little more to it than they just not renewing his contract.

Have to say a lot of the criticism Spencer receives is of the laughable "he would have won that race if he'd only been a bit closer" variety. Frustrating though it may be, the evidence suggests that Spencer is pretty good at getting the best performance he can out of a horse - the horse is finishing fast precisely BECAUSE it was held up.

Tom Segal is one punter who I believe looks for him in the big handicaps, but I am sure we all know better than he does.

FIVE2_THREE

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Jamie Spencer's contract with Qatar Racing was not renewed, this why he retired.

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=4804224&category=0

Just as I've said before some can make it freelance and some can't. the modern day jockey is a spoiled one. most can't cut it without the support of a big stable or a trainer with productive stock. the very thought of Spencer returning to freelance forced him to retire.

FIVE2_THREE

Deleted User wrote: »

Have to say a lot of the criticism Spencer receives is of the laughable "he would have won that race if he'd only been a bit closer" variety. Frustrating though it may be, the evidence suggests that Spencer is pretty good at getting the best performance he can out of a horse - the horse is finishing fast precisely BECAUSE it was held up.

Tom Segal is one punter who I believe looks for him in the big handicaps, but I am sure we all know better than he does.

I wouldn't say that. when you hold a horse up early it forces you to exert it even more at the finish because you have to weave your way through tired horses who impede your path. take a look at his days at Ballydoyle. they didnt buy into the hold up style Spencer normally employs. He rode their horses the same way they have always been ridden. none of that hold up BS

Andalucia

He'll be back riding by Royal Ascot, just can't see how this retirement can last at his age

Shemale

Deleted User wrote: »

Have to say a lot of the criticism Spencer receives is of the laughable "he would have won that race if he'd only been a bit closer" variety. Frustrating though it may be, the evidence suggests that Spencer is pretty good at getting the best performance he can out of a horse - the horse is finishing fast precisely BECAUSE it was held up.

Tom Segal is one punter who I believe looks for him in the big handicaps, but I am sure we all know better than he does.

The horse is finishing fast as he ran the first 90% of the race 40% slower than the other horses and has lots left in the tank, either way it won't win and it has Spencer on board.

Tom Segal is right and we are all wrong.

mr.jingle

Think Spencer has acquitted himself very well since this decision was made. He's been saying the right things and hasn't made any fuss out of it despite every time he's interviewed he's being asked the same questions continuously. Can only imagine the days when Dettoris retiring and he milks it to death.

I didn't mind Spencer as a jockey, you kind of knew what you were getting into when you backed a horse he was on that liked to come off the pace and although it's seriously frustrating when he's beaten a short head gaining 10lengths in the last furlong we all know the gamble we took.

Think he's taken a poor decision myself as he is a good jockey with much more to give in the saddle and not as one dimensional as some make him out to be but he'll be remembered for all the wrong things

Shemale

Shemale wrote: »

The horse is finishing fast as he ran the first 90% of the race 40% slower than the other horses and has lots left in the tank, either way it won't win and it has Spencer on board.

Tom Segal is right and we are all wrong.

Well, he's the (named) leading tipster in the Racing Post, we're anonymous talkboard crackpots...

But sersiously, I just think a lot of the criticism is idiotic and based on nothing more than the idea that 'if only he had ridden that horse prominently, it would have won easy' which frankly is an opinion that could only be held by someone who knows absolutely nothing about racing.

Couple of more thoughtful (and factual) angles:
https://betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/timeform-premium/jamie-lynch/jamie-lynch-on-spencer-end-of-an-era-071114-103.html
http://onemilefourandten.com/2013/10/02/jamie-spencer-riding-style-results-what-does-the-data-tell-us/
https://www.timeform.com/Racing/Articles/Jamie_Spencer_A_statistical_summary

Shemale

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, he's the (named) leading tipster in the Racing Post, we're anonymous talkboard crackpots...

But sersiously, I just think a lot of the criticism is idiotic and based on nothing more than the idea that 'if only he had ridden that horse prominently, it would have won easy' which frankly is an opinion that could only be held by someone who knows absolutely nothing about racing.

Ah yeah totally agree about people making stupid assumptions that if a horse was up with the pace it would finish the race in the exact same way. For me his biggest flaw is dropping everything in.

He is limited by virtue of only being able to ride one way

DylanAFC

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, he's the (named) leading tipster in the Racing Post, we're anonymous talkboard crackpots...

But sersiously, I just think a lot of the criticism is idiotic and based on nothing more than the idea that 'if only he had ridden that horse prominently, it would have won easy' which frankly is an opinion that could only be held by someone who knows absolutely nothing about racing.

Couple of more thoughtful (and factual) angles:
https://betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/timeform-premium/jamie-lynch/jamie-lynch-on-spencer-end-of-an-era-071114-103.html
http://onemilefourandten.com/2013/10/02/jamie-spencer-riding-style-results-what-does-the-data-tell-us/
https://www.timeform.com/Racing/Articles/Jamie_Spencer_A_statistical_summary

Off topic, but does anyone have Tom Segal's P/L figures for last year?

Shemale

Shemale wrote: »

Ah yeah totally agree about people making stupid assumptions that if a horse was up with the pace it would finish the race in the exact same way. For me his biggest flaw is dropping everything in.

He is limited by virtue of only being able to ride one way

fwiw I think that was the biggest problem with ballydoyle. in fact back to tom segal spencer's style is much more likely to be effective in a frenetic 20 horse handicap which is the sort of race pricewise is usually looking for a winner in. on the other hand when he's asked to ride an odds-on fav prominent and dominate a field that's not really what he's good at or wants to do.

a little bit of a myth that he ALWAYS holds up a horse though, we only have to go back to the breeders up, he knew he had to get tony prominent and he did

Peintre Celebre

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, he's the (named) leading tipster in the Racing Post, we're anonymous talkboard crackpots...

But sersiously, I just think a lot of the criticism is idiotic and based on nothing more than the idea that 'if only he had ridden that horse prominently, it would have won easy' which frankly is an opinion that could only be held by someone who knows absolutely nothing about racing.

Couple of more thoughtful (and factual) angles:
https://betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/timeform-premium/jamie-lynch/jamie-lynch-on-spencer-end-of-an-era-071114-103.html
http://onemilefourandten.com/2013/10/02/jamie-spencer-riding-style-results-what-does-the-data-tell-us/
https://www.timeform.com/Racing/Articles/Jamie_Spencer_A_statistical_summary

Just because Tom Segal says something does not mean it is true. Spencer is like the Mario Balotelli of horse racing. Been around huge operations and never really delivered. Most jockeys would give an arm to have had the opportunities he's had and he's squandered them all purely because he isn't good enough.

There's a reason so many people become frustrated with him. Typical ride you associate with him (and this is a quote)

''Held up in last place, switched right and headway 3F out, came around whole field, ran on strongly inside final furlong, just failed, too much to do''. Queen Catrine at Royal Ascot. He finished on the bridle on Purr Along in the Matron because he got her boxed in

Peintre Celebre

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Just because Tom Segal says something does not mean it is true. Spencer is like the Mario Balotelli of horse racing. Been around huge operations and never really delivered. Most jockeys would give an arm to have had the opportunities he's had and he's squandered them all purely because he isn't good enough.

There's a reason so many people become frustrated with him. Typical ride you associate with him (and this is a quote)

''Held up in last place, switched right and headway 3F out, came around whole field, ran on strongly inside final furlong, just failed, too much to do''. Queen Catrine at Royal Ascot. He finished on the bridle on Purr Along in the Matron because he got her boxed in

I understand why people get frustrated. On the other hand in the race you quote he's got a 14/1 shot beaten a short head. Horse hasn't done anything else since either. I will level with you, I don't recall the race but the facts suggest that while it might LOOK like he should have done more he's probably got the horse over the distance in the fastest possible time or close to it.

Perhaps you want him to ride the horse prominently and watch it fade from contention in the last couple of furlongs?

Peintre Celebre

If you think that horse shouldn't have won that day you are deluded.

I will take a look later and give you my thoughts! On paper it's her best performance (but I agree paper is only half the story)

Just watched it.

Disagree 100%. Beautifully timed run, did almost everything right and got up past everything on her side of the track, beaten a nose by the near side.

I would go as far as to say that that race is the Spencer criticism in a nutshell. He's got a career best performance out of the horse and shown great patience and also strength in the finish. Sure, horse was beaten - giving 7 lbs to a horse now rated 111.

And somehow that is Spencer's fault - he should have been up there prominent like the 20 other jockeys who weren't there at the finish, or something...

tipptom

Shemale wrote: »

Ah yeah totally agree about people making stupid assumptions that if a horse was up with the pace it would finish the race in the exact same way. For me his biggest flaw is dropping everything in.

He is limited by virtue of only being able to ride one way

I think that is the problem for him is that he considers dropping out horses that is not necessary for him to do.


I know from riding myself that there is a great buzz out of dropping something out and nodding something on the line,that it feels great,looks great and you consider yourself that you have some sort of expensive Swiss timepiece ticking away in your head that other jockeys cant fathom but it is only necessary for a small % of horses but the rush probably becomes addictive.
I'm not saying that Jamie done this all the time and he is a fine jockey but he has being guilty of it on many occasions.


Think Lester,even though he was from another era has a lot to answer for.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Just watched it.

Disagree 100%. Beautifully timed run, did almost everything right and got up past everything on her side of the track, beaten a nose by the near side.

I would go as far as to say that that race is the Spencer criticism in a nutshell. He's got a career best performance out of the horse and shown great patience and also strength in the finish. Sure, horse was beaten - giving 7 lbs to a horse now rated 111.

And somehow that is Spencer's fault - he should have been up there prominent like the 20 other jockeys who weren't there at the finish, or something...

If you care enough there is a brief sectional analysis here:
https://www.timeform.com/racing/articles/sectional_debrief_royal_ascot_day_two

"That is the same upgrade as for Sandringham Handicap winner Muteela, but in her case she went slightly faster than ideal in front, coming home in 25.5s (96.0%). Runner-up Queen Catrine caught the eye in coming from much further back (24.1s, 101.5%) but gets just a similar mark-up to the winner on sectionals."

That passage is slightly ambiguous and I am not going to pretend I am some sort of guru when it comes to sectionals but I think the conclusion, having seen the form since and looked at that data, is that Queen Catrine certainly got a better ride that day than the winner.

Peintre Celebre

She got a better ride than the winner despite being beaten after having to come around the whole field and being given too much to do.


Interesting

Peintre Celebre

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

She got a better ride than the winner despite being beaten after having to come around the whole field and being given too much to do.


Interesting

The in-running comments are nonsense.

I assume you do actually understand that a horse can finish a short head second and be given a better ride than a winner that appeared to have about 12 lbs in hand on ratings / weights?

Pinesky

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

She got a better ride than the winner despite being beaten after having to come around the whole field and being given too much to do.


Interesting

i had invested heavily ew on queen catrine .
The problem for me was he panicked , switched a few times and ended up coming around the whole field .
I believe he didnt have to do that .

Francie Barrett

Two rides today - I take it that when he said he's retiring, he meant the end of the year, not the end of the season? Can't help but think he might have a change of heart yet.