Is this an Elephant?

alias no.9

26000 Elephants wrote: »

True, the disco with an old RR chassis will be an evil handling thing. But its all about image. :rolleyes:

It's no different than a disco on a disco chassis, pretty horrible on the road, and as for image, give me classic RR any day, but that's just me. Invest the money you might use for a body swap to uprate the suspension and brakes.

unfit2006

Can the Disco body like the one in the photo be fitted onto a 1979 Land Rover chassis (Series 3 type) or only onto a Range Rover chassis ... or are they both the same ?

Blue850

Dermo123 wrote: »

Would you believe that is legit???

It is an E-Class W124, not the C-Class W202.
It was actually manufactured in 1991 and first registered in UK.
Then imported to France. The VRT or equivalent in France made a mistake in the documentation and put 1981 as year of manufacture instead of 1991. So then a guy imported it to Ireland a number of years ago and got a 1981 Dublin reg. So a legitimate mistake, not an Elephant.

I can tell the difference between a W202 and a W124, I know about that W124, its got an 81 D *** reg, the C class I saw was ZV 6*** reg

26000 Elephants

unfit2006 wrote: »

Can the Disco body like the one in the photo be fitted onto a 1979 Land Rover chassis (Series 3 type) or only onto a Range Rover chassis ... or are they both the same ?

Only the range rover. The series chassis of the time would have been leaf sprung, the coil sprung version wasnt until 1983 i think, and even then it is different to the range rover/discovery.

unfit2006

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Only the range rover. The series chassis of the time would have been leaf sprung, the coil sprung version wasnt until 1983 i think, and even then it is different to the range rover/discovery.

So the ZV Reg. Discoveries that come up for sale are actually built onto old pre 1983 Range Rovers ?

Would the taxbooks show them as "Range Rover" or "Land Rover" ?

26000 Elephants

unfit2006 wrote: »

So the ZV Reg. Discoveries that come up for sale are actually built onto old pre 1983 Range Rovers ?

Would the taxbooks show them as "Range Rover" or "Land Rover" ?

Land rover as Manufacturer. Range Rovers of the time would carry land rover badges as well. The tax book for my old (original) 1975 range rover just had 'land rover' written on it, nothing else!:)

Capri

Here's an ad

Modern Body on 1973 Chassis
Beautiful Landrover Discovery TDI
Good Condition Inside and Out
All Leather Seats
7 Seater with Retractable Seats
Very Fuel Efficient
Galvanized Chassis
Road Tax 56 Euro per Annum
Mechanically Sound

So......it's a '1973 chassis' but it's 'Galvanised' so was the chassis removed, galvanised and replaced

unfit2006

What modifications would need to be carried out to a 1973 chassis to accept a Discovery body ?

26000 Elephants

unfit2006 wrote: »

What modifications would need to be carried out to a 1973 chassis to accept a Discovery body ?

RR chassis remained largely unchanged* ( shock placement on rear axle changed around '73, but that didnt affect body placement) so I will hazard a guess and say "Absolutely None", but I suspect a few minor alterations (placement of a mount) might be required.

Boge self leveller of RR is not used on disco, so is simply removed.

26000 Elephants

Capri wrote: »

Here's an ad



So......it's a '1973 chassis' but it's 'Galvanised' so was the chassis removed, galvanised and replaced

Who knows? And for €56 annual tax, will anyone care?

unfit2006

Has a buyer any way of knowing if a "pre 1980" Discovery has undergone a chassis swap or whether it is on fake ID.
Would an older chassis be identifiable by any suspension/steering/engine or gearbox mounts etc ?

26000 Elephants

unfit2006 wrote: »

Has a buyer any way of knowing if a "pre 1980" Discovery has undergone a chassis swap or whether it is on fake ID.
Would an older chassis be identifiable by any suspension/steering/engine or gearbox mounts etc ?

RR chassis numbers are stamped on the vertical face of the chassis member close to the front wheel arches, although some are at the rear arch. Additionally, it should have a matching plate on the slam panel, above the radiator.

Dermo123

Blue850 wrote: »

I can tell the difference between a W202 and a W124, I know about that W124, its got an 81 D *** reg, the C class I saw was ZV 6*** reg

OK fair enough:o, its just that when I heard it was silver and an estate I thought it was the W124 I had come across about 5 years ago and thought someone may have put a ZV on it since.
The C class may have a similar story otherwise it is too blatant to be swaning around in it with a ZV.

Capri

US LR elephant donor

http://hooniverse.com/2015/01/02/hot-deal-on-a-land-rover-defender-110/#more-185805

Capri

Elephant , or upgrade :rolleyes:

http://www.urban-truck.com/ultimate-edition-90110.html

http://www.urban-truck.com/ultimate-rs.html

Basil Fawlty

Capri wrote: »

Elephant , or upgrade :rolleyes:

http://www.urban-truck.com/ultimate-edition-90110.html

http://www.urban-truck.com/ultimate-rs.html

Do you have something against people restoring Land Rovers?

Capri

Basil Fawlty wrote: »

Do you have something against people restoring Land Rovers?

Nope, just there's a fine (Customs/Revenue) line between a good restoration, and swopping 2 reg plates / chassis plate in 1 hour :rolleyes:

Nearly bought a V8 Army Defender a few years ago, should have gone thru with it but had no storage for it at the time

101sean

Those Urban-trucks aren't restored, they are brand new and are part of the current craze in the UK for very blinged up Defenders. There's 4 or 5 companies doing it and the last LR show I went to in the UK every other stand was selling bling. Defender production ends in December.

The burnt out US one will probably end up back on the road, they go for up to $80k as the NAS 110s are very rare. US customs have very publicly started crushing some illegal imports where chancers simply swapped IDs to make them over 25 years old.

Capri

I think LR lost their way from the 80's, all this air suspension and electrics and the Freelander / P38 / Discovery diluted the brand. Mercedes just plodded on with the G-wagen in van/estate/pick-up and then blinged it up as demand rose but LR just made their stuff too 'specialist/unreliable'

For me my favourites would be a -

RR V8 Classic 2dr - http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C467084

or an LR 110 V8 - http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=75295&cat=14

Capri

101sean wrote: »

Those Urban-trucks aren't restored, they are brand new and are part of the current craze in the UK for very blinged up Defenders. There's 4 or 5 companies doing it and the last LR show I went to in the UK every other stand was selling bling. Defender production ends in December.

The burnt out US one will probably end up back on the road, they go for up to $80k as the NAS 110s are very rare. US customs have very publicly started crushing some illegal imports where chancers simply swapped IDs to make them over 25 years old.

Looks like 'early 2016' (for EU) but it might be moved to India http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/land-rover-announces-defender-s-ending-1.2057844 same as the LC 70 is still produced for the world outside (over regulated) EU /US /OZ

nmacc

May I ask why the Defenders are illegal in the USA?

26000 Elephants

nmacc wrote: »

May I ask why the Defenders are illegal in the USA?

they dont have type approval, and havent since the mid '90s. To get around it, some unscrupulous importers try to make recent defenders appear as if they were registered pre 1985 in europe, in which case they become exempt.

While it is perfectly legal to rechassis a defender here, its considered illegal in the states for the purpose of trying to circumvent the type approval laws.

nmacc

Thanks, but why don't they have type approval I wonder?

Clearly there's a demand, so there's money available to do some of what's needed to obtain type approval. Presumably it would be seriously costly?

Shades of Rain Man.

Capri

'Type approval' (UK) = FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards - US ) (= ADR - Australian Design Rules in Australia )

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Land+rover+defender+fmvss&rlz=1T4ADRA_enIE451IE451&oq=&gs_l=


Basically, a LOT of vehicles (except those made in China/India/Brazil .... ) all conform to certain standards worldwide but unless the manufacturer has gone to the expense of submitting for approval then they're not permitted.
Bit crazy but there you go.
(Reminds me when Jap imports started showing up here the SIMI started a campaign saying that Laminated screens (on Jap imports) weren't as safe as 'Safety glass' screens that shattered on impact - load of bull as was proved later when SIMI members found they could make money supplying parts for Jap imports )

26000 Elephants

nmacc wrote: »

Shades of Rain Man.

Definitely.

It would have simply cost too much to meet the stringent, and constantly changing US standards. In europe, they were able to claim exemptions ( from airbags, for example) but their weight and the way they were built made it a tall order. They are 'cool' at the moment, but not mass market. Good, original NAS defenders can top $100k easily.

Ironically, Americas SUV manufacturers were able to get exemptions from these laws the way the defender could in Europe!! They were exempt from Fuel economy targets and NHTSA safety rules for cars (by classifying themselves as 'trucks')

26000 Elephants

Capri wrote: »

'
Basically, a LOT of vehicles (except those made in China/India/Brazil .... ) all conform to certain standards worldwide but unless the manufacturer has gone to the expense of submitting for approval then they're not permitted.

Thats not correct. There is no 'worldwide' standard as you suggest. The EU has a set of standards, the US has another. Each geographical market has its own rules.

The defender has EU approval. It would require a lot of expensive work to get it to comply with the US requirements, which are different.

I've imported about 40 cars from the US into Spain, via the UK, because the UK 'interpret' many of the US standards as equivalent or better than the EU ones. In Spain, they now treat it has a whole different set of standards, thus opening up a bureaucratic money maker for them...

nmacc

I knew I'd get a comprehensive answer!

I met a man in France not long ago who had moved over with the wife to try The Good Life. Basically a Tom & Barbara trial with a few hectares, ducks, chickens, goats, etc.

He planned to work as a general handyman, his job in the UK, and to that end he brought his Suzuki Carry with him. It was gently rusting in the Normandy rain because that exact model had never been sold in France. Thus when he went to the local equivalent of the Motor Tax office they refused to register it as they didn't have a matching code number. They would have accepted a letter from Suzuki confirming that it met the applicable standards, but his attempts to get one had failed.

Capri

When I said a 'worldwide standard' I meant that they'd survive a 30mph crash barrier, unlike some of the Chinese/Indian stuff that doesn't seem to up to scratch. As regards lights /bumpers / glass etc then,yes, each area has it's own regs.
The UK seems to have the easiest import tax regs but it's 'Type Approval ' can be a problem - I remember a Mustang having trouble using orange rear indicators because the 'system' was registering a fault with the brake lights (in original US spec the red brake lights would flash as indicators but the UK required 2 sets of brake lights to operate while an indicator was flashing :rolleyes: )
Life was SO much easier in the 70's

mountai

nmacc wrote: »

I knew I'd get a comprehensive answer!

I met a man in France not long ago who had moved over with the wife to try The Good Life. Basically a Tom & Barbara trial with a few hectares, ducks, chickens, goats, etc.

He planned to work as a general handyman, his job in the UK, and to that end he brought his Suzuki Carry with him. It was gently rusting in the Normandy rain because that exact model had never been sold in France. Thus when he went to the local equivalent of the Motor Tax office they refused to register it as they didn't have a matching code number. They would have accepted a letter from Suzuki confirming that it met the applicable standards, but his attempts to get one had failed.

To my certain knowledge . EU regulations state quite clearly , that where a car has been registered in another EU country , the "New" country MUST accept and register it as is , as long as it is roadworthy.

Falcon L

mountai wrote: »

To my certain knowledge . EU regulations state quite clearly , that where a car has been registered in another EU country , the "New" country MUST accept and register it as is , as long as it is roadworthy.

You might tell that to Spain. I imported a used VW Caravelle from Germany. They refused to issue a reg number until I got a letter from VW in Germany to state that the vehicle was type approved. The Caravelle is sold in Spain, so they should have known. But it's Spain we're talking about here.

I got the last laugh though as I got it in duty (VRT) free using one of their obscure rules.