Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

flazio

As others have said, Iman Vellani impressed a lot of people who watched Ms Marvel and will be hoping this works out for her.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183550#Comment_121183550

The longer films tend to be the big ensemble/cross-over/event movies so they understandably are seen as stronger for the most part.

It definitely is short but the median length of MCU movies is 2 hours and 10 minutes so this isn't a huge departure from it. Most of the standalone character movies are around the 2 hour mark.

Given that we won't be spending significant time seeing how any of the main characters get their powers, due to it being covered in the shows, the shorter run time is likely a positive.

Hopefully they do similar with CA3 and Thunderbolts if they don't have the story to fill out longer movies - I dont know if there is the name recognition/fan support to sit through longer movies.

This 3 movie run will potentially be the toughest for the MCU - the count of 'superhero fatigue' will be off the charts.

pixelburp

I'm just hoping it's the first step in Hollywood realising editors are there for a good reason, and blockbusters don't need to be these saggy, 2 hour 40 minute bladder testers who can't justify the length, and invariably sag in the middle.

Doctor DooM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185418#Comment_121185418

Why are films this long these days anyway? Back in the day cinemas would complain if something was over 2 hours long because it'd cut down the amount of screenings they could have. No one watching seems to actually enjoy long films either - I mean anecdotally "needed to lose 15 minutes" is the most common negative criticism I hear of films and "didn't notice how long it was" is the standard positive one.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192237#Comment_121192237

That was when the movies were on film and projectors needed to be rewound and reset. Now they are digital you can start a movie again almost immediately and copy paste the file across multiple screens rather than having two copies or trying to physical move reels from projector to projector.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192404#Comment_121192404

But it is also a factor in terms of more screenings through the day; infamously that was Harvey Weinstein's tactic IIRC, where he had films cut down so he could get more showing in theatres. It's odd that with blockbusters especially, there has developed this trend to have 2.5 hour films when the script clearly was better suited to 90 minutes. Short of proper epics whose scope was legitimately vast like Dune, I can't immediately think of a film where an excessive running length worked in its favour.

EltonJohn69

They should hire Mel Gibson to direct a movie, Apocalypto is a masterpiece.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192404#Comment_121192404

Cinemas still only have a certain number of screens, and you have to have time between screenings to get everyone out, clean, get everyone back in, ads/trailers, not to mention things like just the cinema opening hours etc. So no matter how quickly you can start the film back up again, you're going to get fewer screenings depending on the length of the film.

A big part of why the cinema version of Justice League sucked was because WB wanted the whole thing cut down to 2 hours, to get more screenings. On the other hand though, seeing the Snyder Cut, it's obvious that that version of the film (nearly 4 hours) never would have made it into cinemas, and would have been cut down to about 3 hours, maybe 3.15.

The last two Avengers films, I can see why they went 2.5 to 3 hours. A lot of Marvel movies though have been too long, and could definitely have been trimmed down a bit. I don't think The Marvels being one of the shortest MCU films is any sign of a lack of faith in it or anything. I would instead hope that it's just been trimmed down and kept tight, and that it flows at a decent pace with minimal fluff. Length of a film never indicates quality, it's how they use the time that matters.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124937#Comment_121124937

He embodies a manic sinister undercurrent that has transcended the comics, Dr Doom simply doesn't have that pull for the general masses who go to see a film. Across the board, in terms of an in universe threat, and giving mass popular appeal, Goblin/Osborn is a level or two ahead of any other Marvel villain and only really matched by his DC equivalent, the Joker

~Rebel~

Does he really transcend the comics that much? Like, I think everyone knows the great Defoe performance - moreso for Dafoe than the character necessarily - but beyond that? I would say the Joker is a genuinely mainstream household character, but I wouldn't think of the Green Goblin as anything like that. I'm sure if people are aware of his stories in the comics he's amazing, but most people won't be... Just from my own experience as someone who would've dabbled in the comics at times (mostly Spider-Man around the mid-late 90s which were more Ben Reilly/Clone/Venom/Carnage focused at the time), but would otherwise be a bit of an example of the layman.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199530#Comment_121199530

Marvels biggest mainstream villian would be Magneto by a distance but given he has spent near enough more time as an actual X-Man his reputation as hero/villain has kinda blurred into him just being one of the great characters rather than called hero or villain.

Dr. Doom would be a much more recognisable villain than Osborn.

Doctor DooM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121201102#Comment_121201102

I have spent a lot of time being called Doom in the real world (competitive gaming, it's the name I use to sign up). Genuinely, I've never had to explain who Doctor Doom is when asked why I'm called that. He floats around in the collective unconscious.

I'd agree Maggie is probably the most famous Marvel villain right now who hasn't shown up in the MCU. Actually, he has much the same cachet as Osborne- an incredibly popular 90's cartoon and a successful appearance in a series of well remembered movies. But Maggie's back story is so arresting (all Chris Claremont's work in the 80's, btw) that I feel he lodges way harder in the mind. I don't think non-comicy people think of Osborne as much more than an insane business man though.

That said, we're running into the issue I made above- all three of these characters- Osborne, Doom, and Magneto- have spent time as good guys (Doom has been Iron Man!!!) because they are all post golden age characters, sufficiently complex that none of them are truly evil, and have never been given the rubicon moments I mention above to put them into the Joker sphere of "this guy embodies chaos and evil". Osborne struggles against mental illness, Eric never wants to see another genocide, and Doom wants to save his Mammy and protect his people. Proper motivations, better characters, but it means ultimately, the definition of villain breaks down.

Honestly though Doom would make a tremendous omni-villain for the MCU, that's part of his design (shows up on the streets? probably a Doombot. In the board room? Looking after Latveria. Shows up in magic tales? Well, he is in the running for sorcerer supreme. Taking on gods? Well, he is Doom, after all). Plus there's the fact that, like Magneto, often he will be on the side of angels, and you'll probably never know why today he was helpful.

Osborne's obvious space as the head of a dodgy Dark Avengers has been taken by De Fontaine. Although we DID just get Broxton in Loki, so maybe we'll get this cathartic panel in a cinematic Siege...

I honestly don't think you could do a truly villanous Magneto. Time has moved on. I do feel the MCU has something in line for him though, as he's currently dead in the comics (this nearly always happens so they can come back just before a film or something comes out in a flurry of publicity. Ms Marvel has just died and been reborn like :D)

johnny_ultimate

This is purely subjective, but I would imagine Doc Ock would be just as familiar to a broad, general audience as any of the others.

Penn

Even watching the Spider-Man cartoon in the 90's and reading some (but not a lot) of comics in the 90's, I never would have pegged Osborne as being Spider-Man's nemesis, never mind someone who could be a primary antagonist for the entire Avengers. Obviously I missed the whole Gwen Stacy stuff, but he just never really stuck in my mind like Venom or Doc Ock. I was surprised Green Goblin was going to be the main villian for the first Raimi Spider-Man film, and it was only then I started to hear about how big a villian he was in comics. Don't get me wrong, as my knowledge of comics history etc has advanced, he's obviously a huge part of the comics, and the Dark Avengers storyline was terrific with him being front and centre of that. But I don't think before the first Spider-Man film came out that he was that well known outside the comics.

Whereas characters like Doctor Doom or Magneto, they were firmly top tier Marvel comic villians.

I think Doom would be by far the best choice for a main MCU antagonist after the Multiverse Saga. He has a foot in all worlds and can easily go up against any of the heroes, and presents a real threat that would require the coming together of the Avengers to try and take down. And the Fantastic Four are almost certain to be one of the key set of characters after the Multiverse Saga that it would be a clear way for Doom to become this huge threat.

flazio

My memory of the Marvel Saturday morning cartoons were that King pin was Spider-Mans big baddie with his henchman Smythe and the X-Mens opponents were corrupt anti mutant humans.

Agent Coulson

If done right in the next Daredevil series Kingpin could be a major Big Bad for the the whole Universe.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219221#Comment_121219221

MCU has been about the great wide universe. King Pin is street fighting small fry versus universe snapping Thanos.

Unless he does something akin to the Spider-Verse Kingpin, he's not that big a threat outside of New York.

Doctor DooM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219152#Comment_121219152

Kingpin was originally a big Spidey villain but Frank Miller kinda made him Daredevil's arch nemesis. Really, any street level New York character could (and often do) have beef with him in the comics. So he's a bit of a, ahem, floater :)

Weirdly, due to the incredibly successful "Krakoan era" coming to an end in Fall of X, Fisk is currently on the run with the X-Men. I love how weird comics can be.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222238#Comment_121222238

He married a mutant, also Stark married Emma Frost.

Mutants have been super frisky in the Krakoan era. Even Cypher married Bei

johnny_ultimate

All is not well in the MCU TV realm, according to this report from The Hollywood Reporter: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/

Seems the Secret Invasion production was very messy, and now the Daredevil show is being rebooted mid-production. One plus noted near the end is that Marvel at least seems to be moving towards a more traditional TV production model to fix some of the problems that have arisen.

EoinMcLovin

https://tvline.com/news/marvel-inhumans-mcu-absence-explained-abc-tv-series-1235053945/

interesting read

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224776#Comment_121224776

Honestly, the fact they're doing this, including starting the new Daredevil series from scratch, as drastic as it is, can only be considered a good thing. They'll lose money on production and delays, but at least they're starting to recognise the issues the shows have been having and are working on fixing them.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224776#Comment_121224776

I mean, it was obvious just from watching half these shows they had no formal serialised structure. Secret Invasion was borderline unwatchable and stank of a franchise suffering from hubris.

And I'd put the same contention at the feet of the Star Wars, itself a bag of tedious, sodden shows with the noted exception of Andor (ie, the one show made by people who know how to make serialised or arresting scripts).

Am I reading that article right in it suggesting that Daredevil reboot is costing 150 million? Cos that's criminal for something that is inherently "street level" by its nature. I doubt the netflix show cost anywhere near that.

Agent Coulson

Making $150m series on the fly.

Did AI make it.

kerplun k

Don’t know how true this is, but apparently the initial story was that MM wouldn’t be DD for a good chunk of the series due to the death of Foggy and Karan.

if this is true, it does don’t like Disney punched a bunch of keywords into an A.I tool that included reboot, reimagining, save money, sequel, old cast, new cast, and this is what it spit out.

Penn

https://twitter.com/CBR/status/1714023667984748913?s=19

Rumours that Disney are scrapping the proposed Wonder Man series. Seems like they could be paring back a lot of what was planned, with Secret Wars acting as a soft reboot for the whole MCU.

pixelburp

Every now and again, even my own depth of comics nerd knowledge hits its limits: I have literally never heard of Wonder Man. So will be flippant and say, good. No great loss and time to pare back the output.

EoinMcLovin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248318#Comment_121248318

Yeah he hasn't really been in much comics in last few years. More details here. He was an Avenger for a while and he is kind of Vision's brother as his mind was used as a template when Vision was created

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Simon_Williams_%28Earth-616%29

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248318#Comment_121248318

He has been a major enough character at times. Can be a bit of an inbetweener, often opposing the Avengers without being an outright villian. Pretty powerful too.

The core idea for the show could have been good, focusing on his time as an actor, Ben Kingsley was due to return, Ed Harris was meant to be playing his WM's agent. But at this stage I'd rather no show than a bad show.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248318#Comment_121248318

Well, I'd never heard about Guardians of The Galaxy before James Gunn did his thing so, it all depends more on how well a good showrunner uses source comics as a guide book not rule book.