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Scottish Independence yea or nay

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    #1622
    RED L4 0TH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭RED L4 0TH


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    You seem to forget that the majority of Scots wish to remain in the Union.

    The Tories have to respect that.

    They can't just ditch them.

    Not forgetting anything, if the EU referendum aspect comes into play.


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    #1623
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,090 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    RED L4 0TH wrote: »
    Not forgetting anything, if the EU referendum aspect comes into play.

    That post makes no sense.

    Explain yourself


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    #1624
    RED L4 0TH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭RED L4 0TH


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    That post makes no sense.

    Explain yourself

    Explain this in the light of the article I linked to:
    The idea that Scotland would leave the union due to the outcome of the EU referendum is stupid.

    What's stupid?


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    #1625
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,090 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    RED L4 0TH wrote: »
    Explain this in the light of the article I linked to:



    What's stupid?

    OK lets start with the basics.

    1. Scotland decided to stay in the UK in September by virtue of the electorate voting NO in greater numbers than voting YES in a independence referendum

    2. The fact that (1) above happened means that and further referendums involving the UK will include Scotland and that the votes cast in Scotland will be included in, and counted as, part of the overall votes cast in the UK.

    The idea that they would somehow be dealt with separately in a EU referendum is whats stupid.

    It's a bit like Donegal in the republic not introducing a constitutional change because they voted against it (I used Donegal as they seem to go against the rest of the country in every referendum )


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    #1626
    RED L4 0TH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭RED L4 0TH


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    OK lets start with the basics.

    1. Scotland decided to stay in the UK in September by virtue of the electorate voting NO in greater numbers than voting YES in a independence referendum

    Basic indeed. I'm aware of the result thanks.
    2. The fact that (1) above happened means that and further referendums involving the UK will include Scotland and that the votes cast in Scotland will be included in, and counted as, part of the overall votes cast in the UK.

    Even taking the above into account, Paul Cairney of Stirling University said:
    a referendum in which Britain as a whole voted to leave the EU while Scots voted to stay in would trigger a new UK constitutional crisis and demands for a new Scottish independence referendum.
    The idea that they would somehow be dealt with separately in a EU referendum is whats stupid.

    It's far from stupid.
    It's a bit like Donegal in the republic not introducing a constitutional change because they voted against it (I used Donegal as they seem to go against the rest of the country in every referendum )

    It's not.


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    #1627
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,030 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    OK lets start with the basics.

    1. Scotland decided to stay in the UK in September by virtue of the electorate voting NO in greater numbers than voting YES in a independence referendum

    2. The fact that (1) above happened means that and further referendums involving the UK will include Scotland and that the votes cast in Scotland will be included in, and counted as, part of the overall votes cast in the UK.

    The idea that they would somehow be dealt with separately in a EU referendum is whats stupid.

    It's a bit like Donegal in the republic not introducing a constitutional change because they voted against it (I used Donegal as they seem to go against the rest of the country in every referendum )

    What is stupid is the assumption from some of the posters here that as Scotland voted No, everything will be hunky dory going forward no matter what. If England votes take the UK out of Europe and the majority of people in Scotland voted to stay, then the dynamics have changed and there will be a constitutional crisis in the UK

    You have misjudged what is happening in Scotland at the moment


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    #1628
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,090 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    RED L4 0TH wrote: »
    Basic indeed. I'm aware of the result thanks.



    Even taking the above into account, Paul Cairney of Stirling University said:





    It's far from stupid.



    It's not.

    So the opinion of a university academic is that it would "cause a constitutional crisis and demands for a new Scottish independence referendum."

    That's all well and good but another opinion would be that a referendum was held and failed in September 2014 and that no further referendum would be required.

    As I said it's the SNP looking for a new angle now that the referendum has failed for this generation.


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    #1629
    RED L4 0TH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭RED L4 0TH


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    but another opinion would be that a referendum was held and failed in September 2014 and that no further referendum would be required.

    As I said it's the SNP looking for a new angle now that the referendum has failed for this generation.

    He's not talking about an independence referendum in isolation, but with reference to an EU referendum, should an EU referendum be held. It will be on the agenda again far sooner than in a generation in this case I think.


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    #1630
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,090 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    What is stupid is the assumption from some of the posters here that as Scotland voted No, everything will be hunky dory going forward no matter what. If England votes take the UK out of Europe and the majority of people in Scotland voted to stay, then the dynamics have changed and there will be a constitutional crisis in the UK

    You have misjudged what is happening in Scotland at the moment


    Ohh, disappointed with the will of the majority are we ?

    Sorry that's just the way it goes.


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    #1631
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    If the UK was proper union, it would not leave the EU unless a majority in 3 of its 4 parts agreed to it. That Cameron would oppose such a thing illustrates the limits of the big talk before the Scottish referendum. The EU referendum could indeed cause a constitutional crisis.


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    #1632
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,030 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Ohh, disappointed with the will of the majority are we ?

    Sorry that's just the way it goes.

    The unionist parties said the UK was a union of equal partners between Scotland and England. It appears that you have your head in the sand about that


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    #1633
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ardmacha wrote: »
    If the UK was proper union, it would not leave the EU unless a majority in 3 of its 4 parts agreed to it. That Cameron would oppose such a thing illustrates the limits of the big talk before the Scottish referendum. The EU referendum could indeed cause a constitutional crisis.

    So ten million people get to boss around the other fifty?

    That doesn't sound particularly fair.


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    #1634
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So ten million people get to boss around the other fifty?

    That doesn't sound particularly fair.

    It is the nature of a union though that al parties have an equal voice.


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    #1635
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    ardmacha wrote: »
    It is the nature of a union though that al parties have an equal voice.
    No that's the nature of a federation. If you want a US style constitution, where all states get an equal say in government but separatism is illegal then fine with me but you can't have it both ways.


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