Water Meter Question.......yes, another one.

MajesticDonkey

stimpson wrote: »

The wireless signal is encrypted with AES I believe.

Seems logical

TallGlass

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Yeah, it's true it would be fairly easy to disrupt the meter communicating if you know the frequency at which the transponder ("MIU") on the meter communicates on. If you know this, it's just a case of broadcasting another signal at the same frequency near the meter.

Hacking isn't as easy, because you'll need to know what each frame the MIU sends looks like, i.e. how the data it sends is formatted.

Nothing that some RF shielding wouldn't stop or even just gaining access to the PCB board and overloading it.

Two things I am interested in.

How much we will be ripped off by for water processing

Will they upgrade the network and will we see % loss of processed water dropping? In fact has this been set as a target for IW ? Considering it's all about conserving water they should have to decrease the % loss of output.

MajesticDonkey

TallGlass wrote: »

Nothing that some RF shielding wouldn't stop or even just gaining access to the PCB board and overloading it.

Both of which will get you caught fairly quickly.

TallGlass

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Both of which will get you caught fairly quickly.

Well nothing to say you can't put RF shielding in the meter. As for the PCB, boards do fail they wouldn't know the difference. There's no point in messing around with the meter, there going to bill one way or another.

I am more interested in seeing the stats after a year if they manage to drop the output loss in the network. The Dublin City Council water network had some ridiculous figure of like 40% loss between source and end point.

Seemingly this is the public's fault for paying our taxes, yet someone forgot to upgrade the water pipes while everything else was been upgraded we now need IW to come to rescue.

Yet while they are digging up every water cut off point in the country they are making the problem worse and upping the water loss the exact reason we where told IW was set up for.

Banjo String

Here's a question.

What happens in the scenario that a homeowner refuses to engage with IW over an estimated bill?

What happens there?

kneemos

Banjo String wrote: »

Here's a question.

What happens in the scenario that a homeowner refuses to engage with IW over an estimated bill?

What happens there?[/


Air strike.

Banjo String

kneemos wrote: »

Air strike.

With water bombs?

stimpson

TallGlass wrote: »

Well nothing to say you can't put RF shielding in the meter. As for the PCB, boards do fail they wouldn't know the difference. There's no point in messing around with the meter, there going to bill one way or another.

I am more interested in seeing the stats after a year if they manage to drop the output loss in the network. The Dublin City Council water network had some ridiculous figure of like 40% loss between source and end point.

Seemingly this is the public's fault for paying our taxes, yet someone forgot to upgrade the water pipes while everything else was been upgraded we now need IW to come to rescue.

Yet while they are digging up every water cut off point in the country they are making the problem worse and upping the water loss the exact reason we where told IW was set up for.

After fitting the meter they check for leaks between the meter and the house by ensuring that when all taps are off, there is no flow recorded. If there are any leaks detected beyond the meter then there is money set aside by the government to fix these leaks.

TheChizler

And to answer the OP the meters more than likely don't just record the current reading, they'll record a certain amount of historical data, meaning the drive by reader can query usage since a certain point in time, or some variant of the above.

TheChizler

And also, does anyone know what exactly this 'plug' that's in the news recently is? None of the news articles or radio pieces I've heard give any detail, I presume it's something that immobilises the flow meter. Find it funny that these anti groups are at least advocating what is essentially fraud, or worst a criminal offence.

Sir Arthur Daley

The plug disrupts the processor, it stops its cycle.

Tokyo

TheChizler wrote: »

And also, does anyone know what exactly this 'plug' that's in the news recently is? None of the news articles or radio pieces I've heard give any detail, I presume it's something that immobilises the flow meter. Find it funny that these anti groups are at least advocating what is essentially fraud, or worst a criminal offence.

If I'm not mistaken, it's just a threaded bung. Turn off water flow, unscrew meter, screw in bung in place of meter, turn on water.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/campaign-groups-urge-public-to-use-2-plastic-plug-in-water-charges-protests-637534.html

Anti-water charges campaign groups across Ireland are encouraging the public to remove their water meters and use a €2 plastic plug to keep their water flowing.

TheChizler

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

The plug disrupts the processor, it stops its cycle.

That's what I mean by lack of detail :P

So it's some magnetic device? Or a steel spike driven into the processor? Or is there some accessible circuitry that it simply shorts? Not sure how they think that will work, as the mechanical part of the meter will surely still be working away and displaying the correct data?

TheChizler

mike_ie wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, it's just a threaded bung. Turn off water flow, unscrew meter, screw in bung in place of meter, turn on water.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/campaign-groups-urge-public-to-use-2-plastic-plug-in-water-charges-protests-637534.html

Ah so just purely bypassing the meter. Ingenious...

Why do utility companies always send the nice bills out after christmas? This will be bill no.1 and we will have no idea how much we've spent up till then.

BeerWolf

They state that each home will pay an ‘assessed’ or average charge which amounts to €176 for a household with one adult, with another €102 levied for every additional person over the age of 18 in the property.

If only one service is needed - for example if a home has a septic tank and does not use a public sewer - the charge is halved.The cost of a single service - water or wastewater - will be €88 for one adult, doubling to €176 for both. In a two-adult household, the charge rises to €139 and €278 respectively.

Pretty pricey ain't it ?

LINK

So... €380 per month with 3 adults [over 18s] o.O;

RandomName2

BeerWolf wrote: »

Pretty pricey ain't it ?

LINK

So... €380 per month with 3 adults [over 18s] o.O;

Is that per month!? :eek:

Surely not?

Would prefer a flat rate over metering... would be one less thing to worry about. :mad:

BeerWolf

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is that per month!? :eek:

Surely not?

Would prefer a flat rate over metering... would be one less thing to worry about. :mad:

Nah, pretty sure it's annually. I'm just confused with this charge and the metering...

Pay the flat rate, or the meter for €2.44 / 1000 litres, or both?

MajesticDonkey

The CER also says:

* Where water is unfit for human consumption, affected customers will receive a 50pc
discount on the water supply charge for the duration of the restriction.

Are they having a laugh? I've been on a boil notice for the last 8 years and they want me to pay 50%?

EazyD

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Are they having a laugh? I've been on a boil notice for the last 8 years and they want me to pay 50%?

That is a total joke in fairness.

johnty56

Water bills are going to end up being pretty big for most houses.. looking at the figures released today it seems that, at €4.88 per 1000/l to supply and take the waste, the average 7 minute shower will cost 50 cent

Multiply that by 4 people in a house and its €2 a day just for showers ... then there is brushing your teeth, flushing the toilet( 18 litres per flush counting waste= approx €130 a year if each person flushes once), washing your clothes ( 65 litres per wash x 2 to include counting the waste =130 litres = 50 odd cent, €180 a year if you only do 1 wash a week!!), cleaning...

Conservatively looking at around €1000 a year for most households I would guess.. Approx 1650000 households in the country according to CSO, so 1,650,000,000 income for IW

IW is going to be a nice big fat juicy tasty morsel when the government eventually get around to giving it to Denis O'Brien or one of those other golden circle f€ckwits

Are people really so stupid that they cannot see this coming??

natlu2809

From the CER FAQ
–
The CER is consulting on Irish Water’s proposal that a volumetric unit rate of €2.44 per 1,000 litres for each service. This results in a combined charge of €4.88 per 1,000 litres
for water and wastewater services

---

For every litre in, IW say that it will also charge you again for waste processing of that water on the way out. What happens if that water doesnt exit because it evaporates, I use it in my garden, I recycle the grey water or do anything else to conserve it ? Do IW still just bluntly, flatly charge and expect people to be happy with that ?

The rhetoric and the PR blasting out is that its 2.44 a litre, when in fact its double that. Wakey wakey. e238pa is misleading at the kindest, and deceptive if you like to take a lawerly approach. What a joke.

terryduff12

Isn't the whole idea that we are paying for water that's already treated so how can they charge for it again and the obvious thing too is we will be drinking the water, washing cars, plants and animals so same amount the comes in won't be going to be treated

yolo!thisone

does anyone seriously intend on paying these? f*** that. i scrape by every week as do many others. unless wages increase and the cost of living drops it is not possible for people to afford to pay water charges and every other thing they throw at us. they can go f*** themselves.

Badger2009

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Are they having a laugh? I've been on a boil notice for the last 8 years and they want me to pay 50%?

pay 50% up to 3 months of a boil water notice.

If it goes over 3 months you don't have to pay until it sorted:

"If the disruption is longer than 3 months, then no water supply charges will apply until the restriction notice is lifted."

I think that is fair enough. I have had to boil my water for the last 2 years.

Meirleach

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Are they having a laugh? I've been on a boil notice for the last 8 years and they want me to pay 50%?

On a boil notice here too, bit of a joke. Being sold goods that aren't fit for purpose and getting a 'discount' for it.

Edit: Just seen this "If the disruption is longer than 3 months, then no water supply charges will apply until the restriction notice is lifted." Not quite as bad.

Bob24

yolo!thisone wrote: »

does anyone seriously intend on paying these? f*** that. i scrape by every week as do many others. unless wages increase and the cost of living drops it is not possible for people to afford to pay water charges and every other thing they throw at us. they can go f*** themselves.

You are having a good rant here but will most likely pay when you receive your bill.
If you are one of the few who actually go ahead and don't pay, they will eventually reduce your water pressure to a point where you can still fulfill basic human needs but it is VERY annoying for you ... and then you will pay (no one wants to spend a minute filling up a glass of water, wait for 15 minutes for the flush to be ready again in the toilets, or be unable to have a proper shower or bath and have to wash with a very small quantity of water from the sink, have their dishwasher and washing machine become useless, etc).

You probably don't want to hear this ... but this is the reality of how things will happen.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

How are they going to reduce pressure on homes with no meters?

AlanS181824

Bob24 wrote: »

You are having a good rant here but will most likely pay when you receive your bill.
If you are one of the few who actually go ahead and don't pay, they will eventually reduce your water pressure to a point where you can still fulfill basic human needs but it is VERY annoying for you ... and then you will pay (no one wants to spend a minute filling up a glass of water, wait for 15 minutes for the flush to be ready again in the toilets, or be unable to have a proper shower or bath and have to wash with a very small quantity of water from the sink, have their dishwasher and washing machine become useless, etc).

You probably don't want to hear this ... but this is the reality of how things will happen.

+1 with this.

My Nanny lives in the country and has a well so it isn't pressurised.

It takes about 10 minutes for the sink to fill.

It's unbelievably slow, I have no idea how she puts up with it.

Although saying that her shower works fine.

It's just the taps that take their time.

Bob24

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

How are they going to reduce pressure on homes with no meters?

Good question. For premisses where a meter can be installed I guess they might bump them up the list. But for others where meters can currently not be installed and there is not one clear water pipe per household, Irish Water will have a hard to do anything with the pressure - they will probably turn to legal ways to treated people into paying their bills.