Medical Advice!

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Don't talk to me about strawmen. You are not reading any of the posts by myself or drkpower, or if you are you are simply refusing to see past your own biases.

I am actually reading and responding to the content of posts here, without resorting to questioning other posters' character. What biases do you think are clouding my vision?

sleepyheadh

sam34 wrote: »

You actually asked for examples of things that "might happen".

I gave you an example from my clinic today where a young man now has an extended duration of untreated psychosis thanks to inappropriate advice. I gave you an example of a post here on boards where mods intervened to avert something possibly happening... I don't know what the outcome of that man with the testicular lump was, but I do know he got no false assurances here.

Another poster has given you other examples of things that could go wrong and various reasons for that.

But of course, when you got the examples you asked for, you had further comment to make:

Very clever use of that quotation, i never asked for things that "might happen" i asked for "specific" examples..the case of the man with the lump would fall into one of those "might happen" case studies of which i am not interested.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

I am actually reading and responding to the content of posts here, without resorting to questioning other posters' character. What biases do you think are clouding my vision?

Well confirmation bias for one!

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Can you possibly give an example please. What could the person suggest to the person who is looking for advice but is unwilling to go to their gp? Please be specific.. They will not be able to get any medication that is not available OTC, they won to able to receive ant treatment, so i am curious as to what you think might happen in this case.

Heres a specific one for you ( from a slightly different angle ) :

Had a (hopefully!!) newbie ncdh fail to spot dka setting in
- told " its okay, no need to see a gp/anyone "
i offered money right there if they wanted to run any test they could think of
when a qualified medical person with a test in their hand tells you something - you tend to believe it


Was out the next day helping a friend chopping down trees with a chainsaw
- could have ended in a pool of blood if i had grabbed a litre of lucozade instead of a litre of water that morning

no big deal - we humanz make mistakes

.

drkpower

penguin88 wrote: »

I'm not familiar with a lot of the other fora where professional advice would be sought. It sounds like you have an issue with the level of enforcement in such fora, perhaps it would be worth reporting posts you feel should be actioned.

Ah no, as I said, I have an issue with the lack of a joined up approach site wide. Not that this is an issue with an easy solution.

Reporting random posts would be silly, really.

Kurtosis

drkpower wrote: »

Ah no, as I said, I have an issue with the lack of a joined up approach site wide. Not that this is an issue with an easy solution.

Reporting random posts would be silly, really.

I guess it's always going to be an issue when you have different teams of mods and cmods trying to apply the same standard across the site. It is probably more of an issue for feedback to clarify the side wide position.

drkpower

penguin88 wrote: »

I guess it's always going to be an issue when you have different teams of mods and cmods trying to apply the same standard across the site. It is probably more of an issue for feedback to clarify the side wide position.

I've been there and done that. I've made my own suggestions, accepted by some, not by others.

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

Heres a specific one for you ( from a slightly different angle ) :

Had a (hopefully!!) newbie ncdh fail to spot dka setting in
- told " its okay, no need to see a gp/anyone "

Was out the next day helping a friend chopping down trees with a chainsaw
- could have ended in a pool of blood if i had grabbed a litre of lucozade instead of a litre of water that morning

But in that case you saw a doctor - An NCHD, thats a case of misdiagnosis not poor advice in the sense of this conversation.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Well confirmation bias for one!

I would disagree.

As I said before, your suggestions might get more consideration if you engaged and debated properly rather than picking at the credibility of other posters.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

I would disagree.

As I said before, your suggestions might get more consideration if you engaged and debated properly rather than picking at the credibility of other posters.

where have i picked at the credibility of other posters?

RobFowl

I think we've gone as far as we can here.

Medical advice is not allowed and this will not change.

RobFowl

With a heavy heart re-opened but with absolutely zero tolerance toward the letter or the spirit of the forum and boards guidelines.
Also under no circumstances will the policy on medical advice change so if this thread goes down that line it'll be closed.

sleepyheadh

hopefully the flow hasn't been completely taken out of this conversation.

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

But in that case you saw a doctor - An NCHD, thats a case of misdiagnosis not poor advice in the sense of this conversation.

I highlighted the relevant bit for you

Originally Posted by gctest50
Heres a specific one for you ( from a slightly different angle ) :

Had a (hopefully!!) newbie ncdh fail to spot dka setting in

- told " its okay, no need to see a gp/anyone "

it was the poor advice part of it that mattered far more than the failure to diagnose

The newbie nchd negated the need i would have had to seek advice/diagnosis from someone of superior skills to them

Someone you trust advising you not to proceed - near miss with a messy death

This is much the same as what could happen if boards allowed medical advice

again - i don't really care: no-one lost any appendages this time


humans make mistakes, unavoidable, sucks when its you though :

Dr Mahinda acknowledged her insulin prescription error in writing to the GMC, admitting the amount was "a dose for an elephant".
She wrote: "(It) is a very weird error, most probably I would have written down three units, eight units is even too much, but 38 units is a dose for an elephant.
"And apparently the type of insulin was also incorrect. A very weird error, but above all a very serious error.

I still find it difficult to believe that I actually prescribed this lethal dose."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-26015788

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

it was the poor advice part of it that mattered far more than the failure to diagnose

The newbie nchd negated the need i would have had to seek advice/diagnosis from someone of superior skills to them

This is what could happen if boards allowed medical advice

.

But what we are talking about in this case, refers to people not seeking any medical advice from Doctors. In your case you were seen by a doctor - no matter how poor there advice you received, you still received advice from a medical doctor, not some random person from boards.

There is a difference people misdiagnosis/poor advice by a medical doctor and misdiagnosis/poor advice by a non medical doctor.

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

But what we are talking about in this case, refers to people not seeking any medical advice from Doctors.

That is my point right there.

That nchd basically stopped me in my tracks of seeking medical advice from a doctor of superior skills

Its not the nchd's failure to diagnose i'm on about

- its saying "you don't need to proceed " <<<<<<<<<< this is what would happen if they allowed medical advice on boards

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

That is my point right there.

That nchd basically stopped me in my tracks of seeking medical advice from a doctor of superior skills

Its not the nchd's failure to diagnose i'm on about

- its saying "you don't need to proceed " <<<<<<<<<< this is what would happen if they allowed medical advice on boards

no, you don't get it.. The doctor gave you advice, why would you need to seek further advice.. that is nothing like getting advice from someone on boards.

An NCHD is an Non consultant Hospital DOCTOR!!! You were given advice by a doctor not someone from boards.

AstraMonti

I agree with the OP, I can't see how anyone will take for granted what they read on a forum by joe blogs. And even if they did, a simple line in the rules saying " boards.ie is not responsible for any advice given by their members and only stands as the online middleman to display the information" should quickly and easy enough dissolve them from any harm coming their way.

Besides that, I think it would be beneficial to hear a few other stories of what people did to a similar issue. And it's rather pretentious cutting down medical advice yet allowing people to ask how to fix their brakes and in which horse they should bet their money.

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

no, you don't get it.. The doctor gave you advice, why would you need to seek further advice.. that is nothing like getting advice from someone on boards. .

No you are missing it.

They advised me there was no need to seek further advice

- i asked should i go further ( to a doctor with superior skills )

that is the part that is relevant to boards & medical advice

That is what would happen if boards allowed medical advice

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

No you are missing it.

They advised me there was no need to seek further advice

- i asked should i go further ( to a doctor with superior skills )

that is the part that is relevant to boards & medical advice

That is what would happen if boards allowed medical advice

So you think that if boards allowed medical advice, there would be qualified doctors visiting you, examining you, listening to your symptoms and then offering you advice?

The doctor in that case felt they made the right diagnosis - evidently she was wrong. Why would she tell you to go and see a consultant?

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

The doctor in that case felt they made the right diagnosis - evidently she was wrong. Why would she tell you to go and see a consultant?

Where did i mention a consultant ? there is a reason the "Killing Season" is called the "Killing Season" - started about 1967 here

Originally Posted by gctest50
- i asked should i go further ( to a doctor with superior skills )

What precisely are you ranting about here :

sleepyheadh wrote: »

So you think that if boards allowed medical advice, there would be qualified doctors visiting you, examining you, listening to your symptoms and then offering you advice?

If boards offered medical advice it would leave itself wide open eg:

if someone else was developing iddm and knew what it was

they could :
- structure questions that would lead to someone telling me to "take two lemsip n go to bed" - flu symptoms some people get from ketones
- let dka kick in "properly"
- ?????
- profit

this is why boards cannot ever allow medical advice

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

Where did i mention a consultant ?

Ok so again a NCHD is a non consultant hospital doctor.. i.e any doctor that is not at the consultant level - an SHO, Reg etc.

Therefore, if you wanted the opinion of a more experienced doctor that is not a NCHD, your only option is to see a consultant. Maybe you don't understand the medical system in Ireland very well?

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

..
Therefore, if you wanted the opinion of a more experienced doctor that is not a NCHD, your only option is to see a consultant.

No it is not my only option, GP has superior skills



I wouldn't use an acronym i don't know the meaning of

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Ok so again a NCHD is a non consultant hospital doctor.. i.e any doctor that is not at the consultant level - an SHO, Reg etc.

- again your post is way off the part relevant to boards and reasons it shouldn't allow medical advice

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

No it is not my only option, GP has superior skills



I wouldn't use an acronym i don't know the meaning of



- again your post is way off the part relevant to boards and reasons it shouldn't allow medical advice

what are you on about "Superior Skills", so you think that say for instance, a specialist reg would have superior skills than a GP?

You clearly, have no medical experience, or else you wouldn't be talking about "superior skills" as it means nothing. A SHO or a REG would be quite capable of caring for you in that case. obviously in that one case the diagnosis was missed..but that was a random case of misdiagnosis not poor medical advice given by someone with no qualifications!

Zaph

What it all boils down to is this - Ireland is becoming an increasingly litigious country. If someone has X symptoms and rather than going to their GP takes advice from a post on Boards resulting in their leg falling off, due to the archaic laws we have in this country that don't properly cover the internet, Boards, as publisher of the post, could be deemed liable for the consequences of the advice the person took and have their asses sued off as a result.

So if you want to start your own internet forum and allow medical advice to be freely dished out, then please be our guest, but make sure you have deep pockets first. As for Boards, the rule will always stand - no medical advice can be requested or given.

sleepyheadh

Zaph wrote: »

What it all boils down to is this - Ireland is becoming an increasingly litigious country. If someone has X symptoms and rather than going to their GP takes advice from a post on Boards resulting in their leg falling off, due to the archaic laws we have in this country that don't properly cover the internet, Boards, as publisher of the post, could be deemed liable for the consequences of the advice the person took and have their asses sued off as a result.

So if you want to start your own internet forum and allow medical advice to be freely dished out, then please be our guest, but make sure you have deep pockets first. As for Boards, the rule will always stand - no medical advice can be requested of given.

Except in some circumstances where this rules don't apply apparently - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057098724

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

what are you on about "Superior Skills", so you think that say for instance, a specialist reg would have superior skills than a GP?
You clearly, have no medical experience, or else you wouldn't be talking about "superior skills" as it means nothing. A SHO or a REG would be quite capable of caring for you in that case. obviously in that one case the diagnosis was missed..but that was a random case of misdiagnosis not poor medical advice given by someone with no qualifications!

You are posting about the non-relevant part yet again - seems a bit obsessive.

Once again the relevant bit :

- i got advice not to go to further from a random person (this case ncdh)
- chainsaw death narrowly avoided

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

You are posting about the non-relevant part yet again - seems a bit obsessive.

Once again the relevant bit :

- i got advice not to go to further from a random person (this case ncdh)
- chainsaw death narrowly avoided

A qualified doctor is not a random person, sweet mother how do you not understand this. An NCHD is a DOCTOR not a random person.

gctest50

sleepyheadh wrote: »

A qualified doctor is not a random person, sweet mother how do you not understand this....

Obsessive post is obsessive .... again

sleepyheadh wrote: »

An NCHD is a doctor not a random person.

We know we know we know
N - non
C - consultant
H - hospital
D - doctor

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote: »

Obsessive post is obsessive .... again



We know we know we know
N - non
C - consultant
H - hospital
D - doctor

ok you are trolling me, very good, very funny..well done