Private Minibus & BusLanes

phatony

Hi,

I live in North County Dublin/Meath border area, but all the best paying job in my field are on the Southside. I can get to Dublin quickly, but nightmare thereafter - especially M50 in winter.
So take home 15-20k less in a Northside job...

So this got me thinking - bus lanes.

What is the story with private (not PSPV for public hire) minibuses driving in bus-lanes in Ireland?

Like if I buy something like a Hyundai Montana 8 seater to use as private car, can I drive legally in bus lanes?

Comparable to a works minibus that is not for hire by general public? Can they go in bus lanes?

Been looking at various official websites and I can't seem to figure it out.

Bit cheeky I know...

djimi

It would have to be available for hire. A taxi cannot be driven in a bus lane when it off duty for example.

mullingar

Cheaper to buy a taxi and get an inflatable "paying" passenger (in a poor attempt to be legal)

knucklehead6

djimi wrote: »

It would have to be available for hire. A taxi cannot SHOULD NOT be driven in a bus lane when it off duty for example.

And yet all the time we see them cruising by.

However, I think they are allowed use the bus lanes when empty if they are on the way to a booking

Del2005

A bus carries more than 8 passengers and the driver, so more than 10 seats, the car can only carry 8 passengers. You'd also need a D or D1 licence, these aren't cheap to get.

If you want to beat rush hour traffic get a bike, if you want really beat traffic get a motorbike.

Del2005

knucklehead6 wrote: »

And yet all the time we see them cruising by.

However, I think they are allowed use the bus lanes when empty if they are on the way to a booking

Taxis can use the bus lane on the way to a call but then the OP would need to hire a radio /GPS from a taxi company so they can show the job if stopped. They then wouldn't be able to use private insurance.

phatony

Can a 10 seat vehicle, owned by a private entity, and not available for public hire, not drive in a bus lane?

For example can Airline branded Minibus transporting Pilots to Hotel drive in bus lane?

CiboC

djimi wrote: »

It would have to be available for hire. A taxi cannot be driven in a bus lane when it off duty for example.

No, that isn't correct. A private minibus can use the bus lanes.

djimi

CiboC wrote: »

No, that isn't correct. A private minibus can use the bus lanes.

When its on duty though? (either carrying passengers or on its way to collecting someone)

phatony

IF we knew what the exact law was, I would be able to assess the risk of, say, a private vehicle with smoked passanger windows - and maybe some corporate branding on the side.

Motorcycle too dangerous, too harsh in winter - this would fit well if its low risk.

knucklehead6

Not getting all high horsey here but we are actively talking about facilitating you in breaking the law... I think the mods wouldn't be too happy about that.

phatony

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Not getting all high horsey here but we are actively talking about facilitating you in breaking the law... I think the mods wouldn't be too happy about that.

But it might actually be fully legal. So looking for help to establish the law first.
Can a private bus go in bus lanes? Yes or No. With caveats or not?

Yes there are caveats for car taxis - but maybe not for minibuses. Just be a bus?

We don't know for sure yet man!

Markcheese

Does a lot depend on what it's classified as ? If you've insured and taxed a 9 seater as a private vehicle, then I doubt it .

phatony

Markcheese wrote: »

Does a lot depend on what it's classified as ? If you've insured and taxed a 9 seater as a private vehicle, then I doubt it .

The private versus commercial thing is for cars versus vans.

All 10+ seat mininbuses are classed as VRT Category C, and business/personal does not come into it. I can't ask revenue to charge me differently because I am a private buyer.

I think this looks like a legal idea.

phatony

Del2005 wrote: »

A bus carries more than 8 passengers and the driver, so more than 10 seats, the car can only carry 8 passengers.

Could you please show me a link to something that proves it has to have at minimum 10 seats to qualify as a minibus?

CiboC

phatony wrote: »

But it might actually be fully legal. So looking for help to establish the law first.
Can a private bus go in bus lanes? Yes or No. With caveats or not?

Yes there are caveats for car taxis - but maybe not for minibuses. Just be a bus?

We don't know for sure yet man!

I'm basing this on personal experience.

My employer has a private minibus, a properly converted lwb Hiace.

After having multiple discussions with gardai along the lines of 'this is a bus lane' 'Yes, this is a bus', he went to the superintendent in Pearse St to get clarification and was told that he was as entitled to use the bus lane as any other bus was, full or not.

phatony

CiboC wrote: »

I'm basing this on personal experience.

My employer has a private minibus, a properly converted lwb Hiace.

After having multiple discussions with gardai along the lines of 'this is a bus lane' 'Yes, this is a bus', he went to the superintendent in Pearse St to get clarification and was told that he was as entitled to use the bus lane as any other bus was, full or not.

Excellent. I would feel better though if I had a piece of legislation to point to.

R.O.R

phatony wrote: »

Could you please show me a link to something that proves it has to have at minimum 10 seats to qualify as a minibus?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/revised-vehicle-classification.html

VRT category M2.

From experience of trying to get a 9 Seater Ford Transit DOE tested, it's a car as far as the DOE centre (and for Road Tax purposes).

phatony

Thanks:

Unladen minibuses get about same mpg as a Honda S2000! Excepts its probably better around town since not stuck in stop and go gridlock. Still have to pay private tax on engine emissions size.

Now, If I could come up with an easy way to combine 10 seats with a small-ish car-like engine - any suggestions?

Ninap

Does anyone have a link to the rules governing taxi use of a bus lane?

Del2005

R.O.R wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/revised-vehicle-classification.html

VRT category M2.

From experience of trying to get a 9 Seater Ford Transit DOE tested, it's a car as far as the DOE centre (and for Road Tax purposes).

Along with licence

http://www.ndls.ie/en/Driving-Licence/driving-licence-categories.html

CiniO

phatony wrote: »

Hi,

I live in North County Dublin/Meath border area, but all the best paying job in my field are on the Southside. I can get to Dublin quickly, but nightmare thereafter - especially M50 in winter.
So take home 15-20k less in a Northside job...

So this got me thinking - bus lanes.

What is the story with private (not PSPV for public hire) minibuses driving in bus-lanes in Ireland?

Like if I buy something like a Hyundai Montana 8 seater to use as private car, can I drive legally in bus lanes?

Comparable to a works minibus that is not for hire by general public? Can they go in bus lanes?

Been looking at various official websites and I can't seem to figure it out.

Bit cheeky I know...

You obviously can use minibus on bus lanes, no matter if it's private owned or owned by transport operator, also no matter if it's empty or carrying passengers.
However it must be a minibus over 9 seats all together (9 passengers + 1 driver minimum). To drive that, you need D1 licence.
If you need appropriate law links, I'll be able to give them here late this evening.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

It would have to be available for hire. A taxi cannot be driven in a bus lane when it off duty for example.

djimi wrote: »

When its on duty though? (either carrying passengers or on its way to collecting someone)

No such requirement.
Any minibus (over 9 seats including driver) no matter if it's taxed as PSV, school bus, or private, can be driven on bus lanes, no matter what's the purpose of this driving - private or commercial.

CiniO

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Not getting all high horsey here but we are actively talking about facilitating you in breaking the law... I think the mods wouldn't be too happy about that.

There is nothing in this thread which would be even close to breaking the law?
OP is asking what can he legally do.

Toyotafanboi

phatony wrote: »

Can a private bus go in bus lanes? Yes or No. With caveats or not?

yes a private bus can use a bus lane. i believe the term "private bus" refers to buses and mini buses belonging to privately (not state/ city) operated bus company.

my dad worked for a private bus company and i remember as i child riding along on some jobs and it would travel in the bus lanes in the city where suitable. (sometimes bus lanes wouldn't be quicker with dublin bus's in front of you stoping and starting every couple of hundred meters.)

as for can an 8 seater private family car use a bus lane? no. otherwise they would be full of chrysler voyager's, fiat ulysse's, peugeot 807's, hyundai trajets etc etc.

you could chance your arm in a privately owned transit or hiace minibus, but even at that with no livery down the sides, psv sticker or taxi plate i'd say it wouldn't be long before you're rumbled.

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

you could chance your arm in a privately owned transit or hiace minibus, but even at that with no livery down the sides, psv sticker or taxi plate i'd say it wouldn't be long before you're rumbled.

You wouldn't get rumbled.
Bus lanes are to be used by buses designed to carry more then 8 passengers.
If you have one, you can use bus lanes, even if it's only for private use.
No need for any psv stickers, taxi plate or livery down the sides.

Spook_ie

To be fully legal

You will require a Cat D or D1 license ( D1 Minibus 9 passengers = driver to 16 passengers + driver ) a B license is not sufficient
Here

It would need to be taxed as a bus
Here

You would need a DoE test yearly minimum €198
Here

It would ( I assume ) need to be insured as a bus
Here

As long as you aren't actually using it to ferry people to concerts etc.you probably wouldn't need to register as a sole trader ( however, given the prices charged to take people to concerts it might pay for some of the other stuff! )

Could you not just use your car as a taxi and then drive in the bus lane. You could be one of those hailo cabs and then you don't even need to pay for a radio. All you do is use a smart phone and hailo get I think 12% of your fares.

Spook_ie

MAXFANTANA wrote: »

Could you not just use your car as a taxi and then drive in the bus lane. You could be one of those hailo cabs and then you don't even need to pay for a radio. All you do is use a smart phone and hailo get I think 12% of your fares.

You would need

1 A taxi plate
2 PSV insurance
3 An NCT every year
4 An NCT taxi test every year ( not the same as 3 )

Note you can no longer buy or rent a taxi plate ( in theory ) as you are supposed to rent the entire package

But on the bright side you don't need Hailo

That would all still be cheaper than taxing and running a minivan, getting a D or D1 licence and not to mention buying a minivan to replace the car you already have, wouldn't it? How much is a taxi plate. How much more is psv insurance than normal insurance? The NCT every year is the same as any older car anyway so that wouldn't be an added cost. How much is the taxi NCT test? What's the motor on a taxi? €95?And remember you can actually use your car as a taxi then! Even if you just used it for the Marley park gigs that'd go some way to offset the cost

CiniO

Spook_ie wrote: »

To be fully legal

You will require a Cat D or D1 license ( D1 Minibus 9 passengers = driver to 16 passengers + driver ) a B license is not sufficient
Here

True.

It would need to be taxed as a bus
Here

Not true.
Large PSV tax rates are actually pretty low (154 for up to 20 seater, 403 for 41 seater and bigger)
But to be able to avail of them, you would need to have a licence for passenger transport. If you buy a bus as private individual or company which doesn't have licence for passenger transport, then only option of taxing the bus is on engine size rates (same as private tax).

You would need a DoE test yearly minimum €198
Here

True

It would ( I assume ) need to be insured as a bus
Here

Obvously a bus would need to be insured as a bus

As long as you aren't actually using it to ferry people to concerts etc.you probably wouldn't need to register as a sole trader ( however, given the prices charged to take people to concerts it might pay for some of the other stuff! )

Private individual can buy a bus for himself the same was as he can buy a car or motorbike. No need to register as sole trader or company.

Just looked up the price of taxi plate. It's €6300 which is mad but a wheelchair accessible taxi is only €125 plus a €45 initial inspection fee. Surely every taxi driver would just get a wheelchair accessible taxi then. Or am I reading it wrong? I know you'd need signage then though. Would a hackney be allowed to drive in the bus lanes when on the way to a job?

Markcheese

A ten seater mini bus is going to be like a transit or master or sprinter... Presume insurance would be steep enough (around same levels as a taxi ?? ) . Tax at private levels wouldn't be too bad on a pre 08 van as most of the engines would be 2 to 2.5 litre , licence would be the breaker if you haven't got one , ( do you need to do ongoing training as well ? )
And as someone above said you get stuck behind a frequently stopping bus...

Spook_ie

CiniO wrote: »

True.


Not true.
Large PSV tax rates are actually pretty low (154 for up to 20 seater, 403 for 41 seater and bigger)
But to be able to avail of them, you would need to have a licence for passenger transport. If you buy a bus as private individual or company which doesn't have licence for passenger transport, then only option of taxing the bus is on engine size rates (same as private tax).


<snipped>



Private individual can buy a bus for himself the same was as he can buy a car or motorbike. No need to register as sole trader or company.

But I would contend that it would no longer be a " Bus " and therefore not allowed to use the bus lane, one would assume that the tax category would be changed to show private and ( I assume ) that an ANPR or manual number check would highlight it as not being a bus

Spook_ie

MAXFANTANA wrote: »

Just looked up the price of taxi plate. It's €6300 which is mad but a wheelchair accessible taxi is only €125 plus a €45 initial inspection fee. Surely every taxi driver would just get a wheelchair accessible taxi then. Or am I reading it wrong? I know you'd need signage then though. Would a hackney be allowed to drive in the bus lanes when on the way to a job?

No licenses being issued at the moment for standard taxis, a WAT would fit the bill ( as long as you have the requisite SPSV drivers license ) but the cost can be prohibitive as you are subjected to age factors and fitting out costs.
Hackneys and Limos are prohibited from bus lanes during hours of operation


EDIT

Example of taxi costs
http://www.parfit.ie/productinfo.php?id=218

Nice motor but 2010 would need replacing again in 2019 ( 9 year age rule ) @ €23000 RRP

or you could convert an existing vehicle
http://parfit.ie/productinfo.php?id=102 €7000 + 13.5% VAT

CiniO

Spook_ie wrote: »

But I would contend that it would no longer be a " Bus " and therefore not allowed to use the bus lane, one would assume that the tax category would be changed to show private and ( I assume ) that an ANPR or manual number check would highlight it as not being a bus

Type of vehicle is not determined by it's tax class or status of owner (company, sole trader, private individual, etc..)
If vehicle is constructed as a bus, then it's a bus, no matter how it's taxed or insured or who it's owned by.

I drive a bus on daily basis, which is owned by limited company, but taxed at private engine CC size rates. I use it fairly often on bus lanes, and I know it's fully legal.

Noccy_Mondy

As long you have a bus and has over the 9 seats you can use the bus lane, my Uncle who has a private company (nothing to do with Bus Eireann or any other operators) drives in them all the time as long as he's in one of the buses. Afaik tax on the likes of a transit is fairly cheap, not sure on the insurance, but you will need your D1 licence, which is expensive to get, with the mandatory lessons and what not.

To sum up.....

Get a car and suck it up like the rest of us have to :pac:

CiniO

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Afaik tax on the likes of a transit is fairly cheap,

Assuming 2.5 diesel in transit, taxed privately, it's around 1000 euro per year. Not that cheap really.

not sure on the insurance, but you will need your D1 licence, which is expensive to get, with the mandatory lessons and what not.

There's no mandatory lessons for D1 licence.

Noccy_Mondy

CiniO wrote: »

Assuming 2.5 diesel in transit, taxed privately, it's around 1000 euro per year. Not that cheap really.

I was taking the Uncles situation, whatever way he pays the tax it works out cheap, forgot all about taxing it privately

There's no mandatory lessons for D1 licence.

I thought there was? Must be optional

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

You wouldn't get rumbled.
Bus lanes are to be used by buses designed to carry more then 8 passengers.
If you have one, you can use bus lanes, even if it's only for private use.
No need for any psv stickers, taxi plate or livery down the sides.

Surely that's in conflict with the law ???
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0332.html

Bus Lanes
32. (1)(a) A bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 028 or traffic sign number RUS 029 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024.
(b) A contra-flow bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 030 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024.
(2) A person shall not enter a bus lane with a vehicle other than a large public service vehicle or a pedal cycle during the period of operation of the bus lane indicated on an information plate.
(3) A person shall not enter a contra-flow bus lane with a vehicle other than a large public service vehicle or a pedal cycle.
(4) A person shall not enter a bus-only street with a vehicle other than a large public service vehicle or a pedal cycle except for the purpose of access.
(5)(a) Sub-articles (2) and (3) do not apply to a vehicle crossing a with-flow bus lane or a contra-flow bus lane solely for the purpose—
(i) of entering or leaving premises or property adjacent to such a bus lane, or
(ii) of entering or leaving a road inset adjacent to such a bus lane in order to load or unload goods.
(b) Sub-article (2) does not apply to—
(i) a taxi or a wheelchair accessible taxi which is being used in the course of business, or
(ii) a vehicle authorised and identified in accordance with sub-article (6), being driven by a driver authorised under that sub-article, in which is being carried, a member of the Government, a Minister of State who regularly attends meetings of the Government, the Attorney General or the Ceann Comhairle, in the course of his or her duties as such.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0003.html#sec3

“public service vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for the carriage of persons for reward;

“large public service vehicle” means a public service vehicle having seating passenger accommodation for more than eight persons exclusive of the driver;

Del2005

slimjimmc wrote: »

Surely that's in conflict with the law ???
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0332.html



http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0003.html#sec3

The definition of a large public service vehicle was posted earlier. Once it has more than 10 seats it's a LPSV.

On the bus lanes. I did all my lessons for my D licence in the bus lanes, I asked my instructor and they said we are in a bus so can use bus lanes.

phatony

Thanks for all the replies:

1.

You don't need to do CPC if you are not earning your living as a Professional Bus Driver (your job).

Why are people saying D1 license is expensive to get?
Is it not basically just like doing a car test in a 10-seat vehicle?
Or is there some huge onerous difference?

2.
As for converting a vehicle to be a bus, any written regulations out there that ye might be able to link to please?

For example, I don't need all the 10 seats to be big enough for a grown adult.

I mean, there might be an opportunity to do something ridiculous like put 8 baby seats in a 1.6 Diesel Ford Transit connect, in the form of benches down the sides with narrow seatbelt spacings, or something!

3.
Technically, this is a bus? I can't post link, but

three wubbles dot

defendericon.com/land-rover-defender-sale/222/land-rover-defender-110-22-tdci-heritage-le-station-wagon/

VRT of €200 coz its a bus?

Road tax of €154 per year coz its a bus? And all I have to do is sit another driving test?

djimi

phatony wrote: »

3.
Technically, this is a bus? I can't post link, but

three wubbles dot

defendericon.com/land-rover-defender-sale/222/land-rover-defender-110-22-tdci-heritage-le-station-wagon/

VRT of €200 coz its a bus?

Road tax of €154 per year coz its a bus? And all I have to do is sit another driving test?

Even if that did fit the bill legally, Id say the amount of hassle you would get regardless would not be worth it. It doesnt look like a bus, so you are still likely to get pulled over by a Garda who wouldnt know the difference, and have the hassle of trying to explain yourself.

Del2005

phatony wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies:

1.

You don't need to do CPC if you are not earning your living as a Professional Bus Driver (your job).

Why are people saying D1 license is expensive to get?
Is it not basically just like doing a car test in a 10-seat vehicle?
Or is there some huge onerous difference?

2.
As for converting a vehicle to be a bus, any written regulations out there that ye might be able to link to please?

For example, I don't need all the 10 seats to be big enough for a grown adult.

I mean, there might be an opportunity to do something ridiculous like put 8 baby seats in a 1.6 Diesel Ford Transit connect, in the form of benches down the sides with narrow seatbelt spacings, or something!

3.
Technically, this is a bus? I can't post link, but

three wubbles dot

defendericon.com/land-rover-defender-sale/222/land-rover-defender-110-22-tdci-heritage-le-station-wagon/

VRT of €200 coz its a bus?

Road tax of €154 per year coz its a bus? And all I have to do is sit another driving test?

AFAIK there are regulations for seats, or else the unscrupulous operators would just throw a load of the cheap plastic seats you used to sit on in school in the back. Can't see the DOE passing child seats in a bus.

phatony

djimi wrote: »

Even if that did fit the bill legally, Id say the amount of hassle you would get regardless would not be worth it. It doesnt look like a bus, so you are still likely to get pulled over by a Garda who wouldnt know the difference, and have the hassle of trying to explain yourself.

Yeah but could put a bit of sign writing on it - Private Minibus
Max Occupancy
10 Passengers

Cat D1 License Minimum

Also I read on another post that hummer limos are allowed in bus lanes, so....
Although, why isn't a car limo a bus?

phatony

Del2005 wrote: »

AFAIK there are regulations for seats, or else the unscrupulous operators would just throw a load of the cheap plastic seats you used to sit on in school in the back. Can't see the DOE passing child seats in a bus.

Oh I'm sure there are - but anyone know where they can be viewed?
Like NCT folk put manual on there website - not so easy to get info for my Bus!

phatony

CiniO wrote: »

True.


Not true.
Large PSV tax rates are actually pretty low (154 for up to 20 seater, 403 for 41 seater and bigger)
But to be able to avail of them, you would need to have a licence for passenger transport. If you buy a bus as private individual or company which doesn't have licence for passenger transport, then only option of taxing the bus is on engine size rates (same as private tax).

Hi, this is interesting - can you link to a source to show that a person would need to have a license for passenger transport in order to tax as a bus?

Like when people go to tax a bus, do they actually need to present this?

CiniO

phatony wrote: »

Hi, this is interesting - can you link to a source to show that a person would need to have a license for passenger transport in order to tax as a bus?

Like when people go to tax a bus, do they actually need to present this?

Yes, they do.

Below are the listed option of tax for buses:

3. (a) Vehicles constructed or adapted for the carriage of more than 8 persons which are owned by a youth or community organisation and which are used exclusively by the organisation solely for the purpose of conveying persons on journeys directly related to the activities of the organisation and which have seating capacity for—

(i) more than 8 persons but not more than 20 persons,

€143

(ii) more than 20 persons but not more than 40 persons,

€188

(iii) more than 40 persons but not more than 60 persons,

€375

(iv) more than 60 persons,

€375

(b) vehicles (other than those referred to in subparagraph (c) of this paragraph) used as large public service vehicles within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and having seating capacity for—

(i) more than 8 persons but not more than 20 persons,

€143

(ii) more than 20 persons but not more than 40 persons,

€188

(iii) more than 40 persons but not more than 60 persons,

€375

(iv) more than 60 persons,

€375

(c) vehicles which are large public service vehicles within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and which are used only for the carriage of children, or children and teachers, being carried to or from school or to or from school-related physical education activities, and are either licensed under Article 60 of the Road Traffic (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations 1963 ( S.I. No. 191 of 1963 ) as amended, or owned or operated by a statutory transport undertaking.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/act/pub/0010/print.html

So now.
Option (a) is a no go, as you are not community or youth oragnisation.
Option (b) is a no go, as it only applied to large public service vehicles within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961.
Option (c) is a no go as well.

And as all 3 options are no go, then only way to tax it is under engine CC rates.


Just to clarify in relation to option (b).

“large public service vehicle” means a public service vehicle having seating passenger accommodation for more than eight persons exclusive of the driver;
“public service vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for the carriage of persons for reward;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/print.html
As you can see, your vehicle would need to be used for carriage of persons for reward to be classified as "large public service vehicle", and to be able to carry persons for reward, you need appropriate licence for passenger transport (which can be obtained once you have a qualification (or employ someone who has qualification) for transport manager CPC).

So in short - forget about it.

phatony

phatony wrote: »

Hi, this is interesting - can you link to a source to show that a person would need to have a license for passenger transport in order to tax as a bus?

Like when people go to tax a bus, do they actually need to present this?

From
kildare.ie/countycouncil/faqs/motor%20tax%20faqs/#faq25

In order to tax a vehicle at the cheap bus rate, you need a LPSV license.

But LPSV license this is attached to the vehicle - it is not required to hold a transport operators license.

From
.dttas.ie/roads/english/rtol-faqs

What is the difference between a Large Public Service Vehicle (LPSV) Licence and a Road Passenger Transport Operator Licence?
The LPSV Licence is issued by the Carriage Office of An Garda Síochána or the relevant local Garda PSV Office and requires a technical examination of the vehicle....


So I just have to get the coppers to accept that 10 seater landrover (with soft top roof!) as a LSPV.....

Anyone know where I could get info on their requirements? Garda.ie is crap.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

Surely that's in conflict with the law ???

I must say I'm converted here.
I was 100% certain I was right - but looks like I wasn't.

I remember looking through this some time ago, and I remember my conclusion was that a bus which is not large public service vehicle was allowed to use bus lane. I don't really know now where I looked it up.
But according to most up to date law you quoted - case looks opposite.
Buses which are not being used for carring passengers for reward, can not use bus lanes.

phatony

Just discovered that to get the LSPV license for a vehicle to tax it as a bus, you need to submit your operators license with the application :-(

But it might still be worth paying €1000 annual road tax if private bus can use bus lanes, given the higher earning potential it would enable access to...

So I suppose the question is what is the latest definition of a LPSV for legal access to bus lanes...?