Israel - Palestine History

Franz Von Peppercorn

markodaly wrote: »

RTE report that the guy in the wheelchair was earlier photographed with a sling shot.

Does it strike anyone as odd why you would start burning hundreds of tyres at a "peaceful protest" ?

No. It’s moral imbecility to say “they were burning tyres so they deserved to be shot”.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So every catholic man woman and child who did this up the north should have been execute?

That’s a good point actually. Mark Daly’s list is basically what catholic protestors did almost weekly during the troubles. Even now the 12th can cause either side to light tyres (well particularly the fleg burners in their bonfires), throw rocks in slings, etc. As far as I understand he is justifying mass slaughter in riot like conditions.

wes

Its interesting that for years, we have seen people say the Palestinians should protest, and when they are murdered in cold blood, we see absolutely no change, and instead we see craven support for the murder by the US, and worthless non-condemnation from most other Western countries.

The simple fact is for Israel and the US, the existence of the Palestinian people is the problem. We will continue to see settlement expansion and violence from Israel, and Western hypocrites will treat any kind of resistance, violent or non-violent in the same way.

Dohnjoe

wes wrote: »

Its interesting that for years, we have seen people say the Palestinians should protest, and when they are murdered in cold blood, we see absolutely no change, and instead we see craven support for the murder by the US, and worthless non-condemnation from most other Western countries.

The simple fact is for Israel and the US, the existence of the Palestinian people is the problem. We will continue to see settlement expansion and violence from Israel, and Western hypocrites will treat any kind of resistance, violent or non-violent in the same way.

I wouldn't put the Europeans in entirely the same camp as the US, especially Trump. A lot of the recent violence is a direct result of the decision to move the embassy. A move that was heavily criticised internationally.

The violence is inexcusable though, they shot one guy in a wheelchair, I agree that more countries need to be directly criticising Netanyahu and taking diplomatic action instead of this limp-wristed "expressing concern".

wes

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I wouldn't put the Europeans in entirely the same camp as the US, especially Trump. A lot of the recent violence is a direct result of the decision to move the embassy. A move that was heavily criticised internationally.

I should have been clearer. Europe isn't as bad as the US, but there is a lot that could be done to stop this.

tayto lover

The countries in the EU should set the example and expel all the Israeli ambassadors. Then boycott Israeli goods.
This murder regime has been allowed to go on for too long.

ShowMeTheCash

And what is with the mainstream media?
Are they told not to report on it? Or do their best to spin this has being a "clash" and not murder??

I think in the UK Channel 4 is the only channel this seems to call this out.

tayto lover

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

And what is with the mainstream media?
Are they told not to report on it? Or do their best to spin this has being a "clash" and not murder??

I think in the UK Channel 4 is the only channel this seems to call this out.

All under the thumb of the Yanks.

feargale

I keep hearing from Zionist sympathisers that the settlements in the occupied territories are there for security reasons. If securityvwerevthe motive onlybthe Israeli army would be innthe occupied territitories. Nobody in their right mind would put settlers there. But this is more of the blatant lying propaganda.
People should not be surprised that elements in the USA want to give the Zionists an absolutely free hand. The same thing happened in Hawaii within the living memory of people some of us knew in our youth, and would have happened in Cuba at the same time if they had been able to get away with it.

wotzgoingon

I didn't realize it was so bad over there. I only started looking into it. The Israelis are colonizing Palestinian land they control everything the Palestinian's do. They call it settlements. Even a blind man can see they are taking over the place bit by bit.

When Russia supposedly tried to kill a ex spy there was outcry. Even if it was them he was not a civilian. All those Palestinian's were civilian protesting which they have every right to do and they shot dead 50 something and injured thousands. That was a serious amount of bullets to shoot at unarmed protesters and no country says anything about it.

I'm wrecking my head trying to think what America has to gain from Israel. They must spend a serious amount of money on American military equipment every year is all I can think of.





I'm seriously outraged by the lack of international support for Palestine.

oscarBravo

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I'm wrecking my head trying to think what America has to gain from Israel. They must spend a serious amount of money on American military equipment every year is all I can think of.

If only it were so rational a basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/15/donald-trump-evangelicals-christian-right-jerusalem

...for some Christians, the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital is consistent with the biblical prophecy of the second coming of Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Rapture, or end times.

vladmydad

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I didn't realize it was so bad over there. I only started looking into it. The Israelis are colonizing Palestinian land they control everything the Palestinian's do. They call it settlements. Even a blind man can see they are taking over the place bit by bit.When Russia supposedly tried to kill a ex spy there was outcry. Even if it was them he was not a civilian. All those Palestinian's were civilian protesting which they have every right to do and they shot dead 50 something and injured thousands. That was a serious amount of bullets to shoot at unarmed protesters and no country says anything about it.I'm wrecking my head trying to think what America has to gain from Israel. They must spend a serious amount of money on American military equipment every year is all I can think of.There is no Palestine I'm seriously outraged by the lack of international support for Palestine.

There is no Palestine

Annd9

vladmydad wrote: »

There is no Palestine

Where is Gaza may I ask ?

johnnyskeleton

vladmydad wrote: »

There is no Palestine

Mod note:

Please read the charter about the quality of posting required. While there are issues surrounding the recognition of the Palestinian State by certain countries such as the USA and the EU Member States, that is not engaging with the other poster's points about land appropriation, the lack of international support etc.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

markodaly wrote: »

RTE report that the guy in the wheelchair was earlier photographed with a sling shot.

Does it strike anyone as odd why you would start burning hundreds of tyres at a "peaceful protest" ?

They burn tyres because the smoke blocks the view of snipers, who shoot men women and children

Franz Von Peppercorn

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only it were so rational a basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/15/donald-trump-evangelicals-christian-right-jerusalem

The Christian zionists aren’t the only explanation.

James Brown

I've been reading some disturbing twitter posts. The narrative being perpetrated by some adults is that the Israeli's helped 'us' win WW2, then they took what is now Israel by conquest, (which makes it okay for some reason) and the Palestinians are Hamas terrorists jealous of Israel and want to destroy it. Also many of the protesters were armed and had explosives.
The saddest part of that is no pro-Israeli person seems willing to correct them.

Ultimately whatever your politics, Netanyahu, aided by Trump, is not seeking any kind of peaceful solution.

Arthur Daley

Unfortunately so many are just apathetic to the situation. David Cameron described Gaza as a 'prison' while in Turkey back in 2010, if that is middle of the road enough for people. The Palestinian story needs the 'middle ground' to speak up now.

But the crazed lunatics running this show are ramping up the 'regime change' nonsense in Iran daily. The disgusting stories on our news the other night are on today's fish snd chips wrapper. You can only hope it will appeal to people's self interest soon that oil is heading over 80 bucks a barrel thanks to these policies.

James Brown

I can see an anti-apartheid style campaign doing some good.

feargale

vladmydad wrote: »

There is no Palestine

Unlike the mod who posted the note I don't have a problem about a poster posting a point of view. But I profoundly disagree with vladmydad's post. A large part of Zionist propaganda seems to consist of denying that the Arabs of you know where can call themselves Palestinians or call their country Palestine. What does it matter what their name or the name of their country is? They were a majority west of the River Jordan right up to 1948. Note how the Zionists got almost all the coastline while the Palestinians were pushed back to the less inviting territory. The Israelis even took the Negev Desert so that they could have El Eilat, the only access to the Red Sea.

Franz Von Peppercorn

feargale wrote: »

Unlike the mod who posted the note I don't have a problem about a poster posting a point of view. But I profoundly disagree with vladmydad's post. A large part of Zionist propaganda seems to consist of denying that the Arabs of you know where can call themselves Palestinians or call their country Palestine. What does it matter what their name or the name of their country is? They were a majority west of the River Jordan right up to 1948. Note how the Zionists got almost all the coastline while the Palestinians were pushed back to the less inviting territory. The Israelis even took the Negev Desert so that they could have El Eilat, the only access to the Red Sea.

Palestine exists de jure of course. And has been the name for the region since roman times. What hasn’t existed for thousand of years is a Jewish state called Israel. I mean there was a Christian European state there in the interim, maybe European Christians should claim it back.

James Brown

Just a few pointers; the Palestinians have acknowledged and accept Israels right to exist. It's Netanyahu and the Israeli state who do not want peace. Hamas is only around since the late 80's and is not the official voice of the Palestinian people.
Snipers taking out children on the other side of the buffer zone next to a faux border, kind of spells that out. They don't have a finite border they adhere to because they wish to continue expanding IMO.

NKante

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Just a few pointers; the Palestinians have acknowledged and accept Israels right to exist.

Eh, you'll need to tell them that because they're busy teaching their kids in school that the whole of Israel is theirs.

Literally nothing in their media talks about Israel being legitimate, two states etc

It's all or nothing with them.

James Brown

NKante wrote: »

Eh, you'll need to tell them that because they're busy teaching their kids in school that the whole of Israel is theirs.

Literally nothing in their media talks about Israel being legitimate, two states etc

It's all or nothing with them.

Eh, you want to tell the Israeli snipers murdering children.

Netanyahu does not want the two state solution. The Palestinians have repeatedly accepted Israels right to exist.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israel-palestinian-letters-of-mutual-recognition-september-1993

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-no-palestinian-state-under-my-watch/

Israel carries out apartheid on the Palestinians. They don't want to risk a Muslim majority over time.

NKante

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Eh, you want to tell the Israeli snipers murdering children.

Netanyahu does not want the two state solution. The Palestinians have repeatedly accepted Israels right to exist.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israel-palestinian-letters-of-mutual-recognition-september-1993

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-no-palestinian-state-under-my-watch/

Israel carries out apartheid on the Palestinians. They don't want to risk a Muslim majority over time.

Wow, you're all over the place here.

We're talking about Palestinians not actually recognising Israel, and you bring in the Gaza incident then go on about apartheid.

Fact of the matter is, through their media and education there is NOTHING in palestinian society that recognises Israel.

The PA may have recognised Israel in the past, but they sure as hell didn't teach that to their kids.

James Brown

NKante wrote: »

Wow, you're all over the place here.

We're talking about Palestinians not actually recognising Israel, and you bring in the Gaza incident then go on about apartheid.

Fact of the matter is, through their media and education there is NOTHING in palestinian society that recognises Israel.

The PA may have recognised Israel in the past, but they sure as hell didn't teach that to their kids.

You're spouting propaganda. Show me links to legitimate sources. Mine are all Israeli by the way.
I posted a link to one of the letters of mutual recognition between the Israeli's and Palestinians.
The current Israeli administrations treatment or Palestinians is quiet relevant, no?
Israel wants to continue expanding and has a fear of Muslims becoming the majority if they allow peace.

NKante

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're spouting propaganda. Show me links to legitimate sources. Mine are all Israeli by the way.
I posted a link to one of the letters of mutual recognition between the Israeli's and Palestinians.
The current Israeli administrations treatment or Palestinians is quiet relevant, no?
Israel wants to continue expanding and has a fear of Muslims becoming the majority if they allow peace.

As I said, we can go back to mutual letters under Oslo.

The fact of the matter is there's not a single school or single media outlet that talks of Israel as legitimate.

They still teach their kids that one day all of Israel will be theirs. Even the UN-run schools teach it.

James Brown

NKante wrote: »

As I said, we can go back to mutual letters under Oslo.

The fact of the matter is there's not a single school or single media outlet that talks of Israel as legitimate.

They still teach their kids that one day all of Israel will be theirs. Even the UN-run schools teach it.

So agreed, there is SOMETHING to show Palestine recognises Israel.
Although unsubstantiated, your issue seems to be that you believe Palestinians are the same as the Israelis, claiming the land is theirs.
Religious claims aside, you know they had their homes demolished, so some of it is?

Israel is not seeking peace. The murdered protesters just highlights that.

Odhinn

NKante wrote: »

As I said, we can go back to mutual letters under Oslo.

The fact of the matter is there's not a single school or single media outlet that talks of Israel as legitimate.

They still teach their kids that one day all of Israel will be theirs. Even the UN-run schools teach it.

And what, might I ask, do they teach in Israeli schools?

Cheerful Spring

Heavy fighting between Hamas and Israel last 3 hours. Multiple rockets fired at Israeli cities. It looks like a full-blown war. If Israel invades it could bring in Hezbollah.