Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

user2011

Sufa wrote: »

Air strikes deep inside Gaza are conducted with the intention of removing Hamas' ability to launch rocket attacks against Israel. The operation to identify and close tunnels aims to remove Hamas' ability to covertly insert fighters/militants/terrorists (whatever you want to call them) into Israel with the intention of killing or kidnapping Israeli civilians. The threat of cross border attacks is very real (see 2011 attacks on wiki) and of great concern to the Israeli government and population.

Israel didn't fully comprehend the extent of the tunnel network and the seriousness of the threat they posed until they initially entered Gaza however, and as such the operation to destroy them has increased in size and intensity far quicker than anybody really expected.

Reads like the handbook of Israeli propaganda.

hju6

Sufa wrote: »

Yes but it is often a surprise to those who assume that they do use the holocaust as a justification to actually discover how infrequently the Israelis will ever refer to it. Instead they justify the use of military force by highlighting the existential threat posed by hostile Arab neighbours in the form of both states and non-state groups who have throughout Israel's short history have fought three wars which have seriously threatened the very existence of the Israeli state as well as thousands of terrorist attacks intending to do nothing other than bring death, destruction and pain to the people of Israel.

The scholarship is yours congrats

Benny

Sufa

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

When did you get the baton?

haha!

No, not at all - in fact I joined the forum tonight for very different reasons but happened across this thread completely unexpectedly and, having connections to Israel myself (although I am not Israeli) thought I would simply add to the conversation!

Tail Docker

As a footnote to all the staunchly pro-Israeli Posters that are struggling bravely to fight back against the terror-posting propaganda of Boards insurgents trying to besmirch Israels efforts to secure its borders in a peaceful and non-violent manner, despite the despicable tactics of the Palestinians hurling their women and children in front of Israeli warning-shots, demolishing their own homes to discredit Israel and posting phot-shopped pictures of wanton destruction and suffering...a least try and pick vaguely Irish names lads.

Go for things like "MickeyThurles" or "Guinnesslover" or "Southside Nordie". The ones ye are using just sound foreidign and suss..

listermint

Sufa wrote: »

haha!

No, not at all - in fact I joined the forum tonight for very different reasons but happened across this thread completely unexpectedly and, having connections to Israel myself (although I am not Israeli) thought I would simply add to the conversation!

Absolutely no chance that's the truth

Tail Docker

Sufa wrote: »

Yes but it is often a surprise to those who assume that they do use the holocaust as a justification to actually discover how infrequently the Israelis will ever refer to it. Instead they justify the use of military force by highlighting the existential threat posed by hostile Arab neighbours in the form of both states and non-state groups who have throughout Israel's short history have fought three wars which have seriously threatened the very existence of the Israeli state as well as thousands of terrorist attacks intending to do nothing other than bring death, destruction and pain to the people of Israel.

"the existential attitude" - a sense of disorientation and confusion in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world. Or in this case, word. Or even, post.

A Dub in Glasgo

Sufa wrote: »

haha!

No, not at all - in fact I joined the forum tonight for very different reasons but happened across this thread completely unexpectedly and, having connections to Israel myself (although I am not Israeli) thought I would simply add to the conversation!

Welcome, be sure to read the 3,000+ posts as I am sure every conceivable excuse / reason/ justification has been aired

Darkrepeater

listermint wrote: »

Absolutely no chance that's the truth

As a newcomer myself, I didn't want to say that but....

Tail Docker

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Welcome, be sure to read the 3,000+ posts as I am sure every conceivable excuse / reason/ justification has been aired

Sure, another airing is never any harm. Maybe this lad can put it a bit better. I'm guessing they up the standard as the others stuff it up. At least, i'm hoping.

I'm gonna shut up now btw, lads, so no need for any heavy stuff to fall on me, by accident. Big smile.

hatrickpatrick

To be fair, Israel rarely invokes the holocaust in order to justify its atrocities. Its supporters do that for it.

dav3

Sufa wrote: »

haha!

No, not at all - in fact I joined the forum tonight for very different reasons but happened across this thread completely unexpectedly and, having connections to Israel myself (although I am not Israeli) thought I would simply add to the conversation!

Well if you're short a few quid you can always ask Israel's foreign ministry for a few shekels. You shouldn't be doing all this dirty work for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_(Israel)

In 2009, Israel's foreign ministry organised volunteers to add pro-Israeli commentary on news websites. In July 2009, it was announced that the Israeli Foreign Ministry would assemble an "internet warfare" squad to spread a pro-Israel message on various websites, with funding of 600,000 shekels (c $150,000).

... and in reference to the "anti-israel activists" network.

The newspaper also cites the report as saying this network promotes pro-Palestinian activities in Europe as "trendy," and calls for it to be monitored by Israeli intelligence services, and for the cabinet to treat the network as a strategic threat.

Sufa

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Welcome, be sure to read the 3,000+ posts as I am sure every conceivable excuse / reason/ justification has been aired

Well, I read the last 6 or so and got the gist. I won't enter into all of the moral arguments again - I'm sure they've been done hundreds of times over.

In fact I don't think I pushed any sort of agenda; a poster asked why Israel continued to target built up areas in Gaza if the tunnels were the objective and I explained (albeit probably quite poorly) why they do. Whether its legal, or justifiable or not is something I didn't enter into.

hju6

Sufa wrote: »

Well, I read the last 6 or so and got the gist. I won't enter into all of the moral arguments again - I'm sure they've been done hundreds of times over.

In fact I don't think I pushed any sort of agenda; a poster asked why Israel continued to target built up areas in Gaza if the tunnels were the objective and I explained (albeit probably quite poorly) why they do. Whether its legal, or justifiable or not is something I didn't enter into.

Read the post again

If the tunnels are there to "launch terror " on Israel, one end of the tunnel must be close to the border,

So why the necessity to blow the fluckery out of Gaza to destroy tunnels with one end in or close to Israel ?

Tail Docker

Sufa wrote: »

Well, I read the last 6 or so and got the gist. I won't enter into all of the moral arguments again - I'm sure they've been done hundreds of times over.

In fact I don't think I pushed any sort of agenda; a poster asked why Israel continued to target built up areas in Gaza if the tunnels were the objective and I explained (albeit probably quite poorly) why they do. Whether its legal, or justifiable or not is something I didn't enter into.

From that wiki page - "Even day schools and MASA programs have been conscripted to the task."


I'm guessing day school. Also, the rule is no name calling or low-blows. So this ought to remain fairly polite. Carry on.

Highflyer13

Sufa wrote: »

haha!

No, not at all - in fact I joined the forum tonight for very different reasons but happened across this thread completely unexpectedly and, having connections to Israel myself (although I am not Israeli) thought I would simply add to the conversation!

Ah the auld sneaky throw a post in about the commonwealth games trick, then post away.

You'd swear it was BN himself at times. Wonder where these shills are based, here or Israel?

end of the road

Sufa wrote: »

Israel does not use the holocaust as any sort of justification for its military campaigns.

it uses it to make people feel guilty about criticising its actions

Tail Docker

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Ah the auld sneaky throw a post in about the commonwealth games trick, then post away.

You'd swear it was BN himself at times. Wonder where these shills are based, here or Israel?

The budgets only 150k - to keep down costs, he's in MickyDs on the Kylemore rd, cogging off the free wi-fi. One coke and a cheeseburger to last the night.

end of the road

Sufa wrote: »

Yes but it is often a surprise to those who assume that they do use the holocaust as a justification to actually discover how infrequently the Israelis will ever refer to it. Instead they justify the use of military force by highlighting the existential threat posed by hostile Arab neighbours in the form of both states and non-state groups who have throughout Israel's short history have fought three wars which have seriously threatened the very existence of the Israeli state as well as thousands of terrorist attacks intending to do nothing other than bring death, destruction and pain to the people of Israel.

all started by israels slaughtering of people and stealing of land, they should be forced back to pre 1967 borders and they can put up and shut up

hju6

https://sites.google.com/site/muslimholocaustmuslimgenocide/ww2-bengali-holocaust

Muslims had a holocaust too

Shakespeare's Sister

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To be fair, Israel rarely invokes the holocaust in order to justify its atrocities. Its supporters do that for it.

Yeh, the "plants" on these threads don't bother me; they're in a position of bias. It's those people who are well able to see things from the outside who just keep pretending the Israeli state/military are completely in the right, when they know they're not, simply because they don't want to have the same view as "lefties"/"shinnerbots".
Astounding dishonesty.

hatrickpatrick

Magaggie wrote: »

Yeh, the "plants" on these threads don't bother me; they're in a position of bias. It's those people who are well able to see things from the outside who just keep pretending the Israeli state/military are completely in the right, when they know they're not, simply because they don't want to have the same view as "lefties"/"shinnerbots".
Astounding dishonesty.

The way I see it, the only way anyone could defend Israeli settlements is if they truly believe that "might is right", ie that if Israel has the physical power to steal from the weak, it has a right to do so. In my view, holding such a belief makes one a fairly vile human being.

Of course, it's entirely possible that some have different reasons for their support of settlements, but as Israel's supporters are deafeningly silent whenever they're asked, one must make assumptions until told otherwise.

In my view the true left/right divide is whether one believes that strength confers extra rights.

greenflash

Haven't seen any mention of Mosab Hassan Yousef in the thread thus far.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

Tail Docker

greenflash wrote: »

Haven't seen any mention of Mosab Hassan Yousef in the thread thus far.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

He sounds a bit flippy-floppy. Hopefully no scientologists get to talk to him. That would cost him a fortune.

wes

greenflash wrote: »

Haven't seen any mention of Mosab Hassan Yousef in the thread thus far.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

Probably, because he is completely irrelevant to the current events in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank.

twowheelsgood

Seems to be some double standards at play here.

If those on one side of the argument attempt to play the man and not the ball (by crying anti-Semitism) they are rightly and quickly put in their place.

But it seems that when the other side are free to do so essentially the same thing (by crying shill)?

In any case it matter little what motivates posters to take a position, this only goes to why they post. At with any topic, the credibility of their arguments lie in what they say, and not why they say it.

Personally, I cannot see any good guys in this quarrel. While I believe the Palestinians have, in the overall picture, right on their side, in terms of how the adversaries are conducting themselves I believe both sides are willing to behave appallingly but one side is far more able.

LorMal

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The way I see it, the only way anyone could defend Israeli settlements is if they truly believe that "might is right", ie that if Israel has the physical power to steal from the weak, it has a right to do so. In my view, holding such a belief makes one a fairly vile human being.

Of course, it's entirely possible that some have different reasons for their support of settlements, but as Israel's supporters are deafeningly silent whenever they're asked, one must make assumptions until told otherwise.

In my view the true left/right divide is whether one believes that strength confers extra rights.

I don't know if it is that simple. I think the israeli state is conflicted over some of the settlements. The settlers tend to be religious zealots, who beieve they have a God given right to the land.
Many Israelis are secular and are uncomfortable and embarrassed about these settlements but are trumped when the settlers play the religion card. The settlers use the argument 'you were given a place to live when you came here, but you want to deny us our rights as Jews?'. It's abhorrent but I can understand how the ordinary Isreali finds it such a difficult issue.
I don't think the majority of people on either side in this conflict are vile human beings. I do think that they have become immune to the suffering of the other side through years and years of conflict - as we saw in N.I.
What annoys me the most is the way other countries support each side - paying for the bloodshed from afar. Disgusting.

wes

twowheelsgood wrote: »

But it seems that when the other side are free to do so essentially the same thing (by crying shill)?

If you have posted on these thread before, you can spot the shills, they are new posters, who often post only on this topic, but may also post on a couple others as well, and once the current fighting is finished, they will not be heard from again. Such posters are here solely to disrupt the conversation, and not contribute.

There are certainly posters on here who support Israel, but I don't think the organized effort to flood forums with pro-Israel posts should be ignored either.

JC01

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The way I see it, the only way anyone could defend Israeli settlements is if they truly believe that "might is right", ie that if Israel has the physical power to steal from the weak, it has a right to do so. In my view, holding such a belief makes one a fairly vile human being.

Of course, it's entirely possible that some have different reasons for their support of settlements, but as Israel's supporters are deafeningly silent whenever they're asked, one must make assumptions until told otherwise.

In my view the true left/right divide is whether one believes that strength confers extra rights.

Well that's just entirely untrue. That's like saying all pro-Palestinians are terrorist-supporters, I'm sure many people have many different reasons and logics behind there support of one side or the other, but good god don't let that kind of thinking get into this thread. Sweeping statements continue...

Nodin

greenflash wrote: »

Haven't seen any mention of Mosab Hassan Yousef in the thread thus far.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

As mentioned, its not really relevant. That being said, either he's suffering some mental disability or he's a turncoat.

hatrickpatrick

JC01 wrote: »

Well that's just entirely untrue. That's like saying all pro-Palestinians are terrorist-supporters, I'm sure many people have many different reasons and logics behind there support of one side or the other, but good god don't let that kind of thinking get into this thread. Sweeping statements continue...

Read the post completely - I specifically referred to those who support settlement construction, not those who support Israel generally. So in fact yes, it is indeed like asking why some who are pro Palestinian support terrorists, and is a valid question.

If you don't support settlement construction in post 1967 territories, then my statement doesn't apply to you. If you do, then why?