Have to activate central-heating in order to top up the boiler pressure.

mrcheez

New system installed last year (all new rads / new pipes / new boiler) and 2 zones (upstairs / downstairs), all built according to SEAI requirements.

If the pressure drops in my boiler I would normally expect to just turn the valve 90 degrees to allow water in to the boiler, but it wasn't working so I called the RGI guys over.

It was a different guy to the one that installed my system so after 30 mins or so he figured out that the only way the valve would open was that I needed to turn on my heating while I turned the valve 90 degrees to the left.

Indeed this does allow the water to come through.

I asked the plumber why it was setup like that and his response was along the lines of "This is how the system was setup ... it's built according to SEAI requirements? Ah that would explain it, the <insert some plumber jargon here> has to activate to open the valve"

QUESTION:
So, anyway, it does seem to work, even though it's built oddly. Is there any risk in leaving it like this, or do I have to get the plumbers over to refit the system (and potentially go the legal route if they refuse)?

The RGI has so far failed to respond to my request.

I checked with the boiler company, Worcester Bosch, and they said "it should be fine for a short time, but should be investigated to ensure no damage". I'm not sure why it should be fine for a short time but not a long time?!

P.S. I had an SEAI inspection done after the fitting, he noted a few things (albeit which were fixed), but didn't make any note about the valves being setup incorrectly. Perhaps it's not something normally looked at.

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

New system installed last year (all new rads / new pipes / new boiler) and 2 zones (upstairs / downstairs), all built according to SEAI requirements.

If the pressure drops in my boiler I would normally expect to just turn the valve 90 degrees to allow water in to the boiler, but it wasn't working so I called the RGI guys over.

It was a different guy to the one that installed my system so after 30 mins or so he figured out that the only way the valve would open was that I needed to turn on my heating while I turned the valve 90 degrees to the left.

Indeed this does allow the water to come through.

I asked the plumber why it was setup like that and his response was along the lines of "This is how the system was setup ... it's built according to SEAI requirements? Ah that would explain it, the <insert some plumber jargon here> has to activate to open the valve"

QUESTION:
So, anyway, it does seem to work, even though it's built oddly. Is there any risk in leaving it like this, or do I have to get the plumbers over to refit the system (and potentially go the legal route if they refuse)?

The RGI has so far failed to respond to my request.

I checked with the boiler company, Worcester Bosch, and they said "it should be fine for a short time, but should be investigated to ensure no damage". I'm not sure why it should be fine for a short time but not a long time?!

P.S. I had an SEAI inspection done after the fitting, he noted a few things (albeit which were fixed), but didn't make any note about the valves being setup incorrectly. Perhaps it's not something normally looked at.

Something sounds wrong. I wonder where on the system is your filling valve. You shouldn't have to ever turn on your heating to pressurise the system. This should be done when cold

mrcheez

Actually which forum should this be posted in?

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

Actually which forum should this be posted in?

Plumbing and heating

mrcheez

It's a ghost town ... that or plumbers would prefer to charge for advice

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

It's a ghost town ... that or plumbers would prefer to charge for advice

No we all give hours of free advice on here free of charge, often with no thanks.
I've never seen a system where the boiler had to be turned on to pressurise it, and I've seen alot of systems. Your filling valve must be in an incorrect position

mrcheez

Is it a big job to swap the valves around? I'm trying to gauge the reaction of the RGI guys as I haven't heard back from them since I mentioned it.

Also is there likely any longterm damage caused by this setup vs standard?

Thanks!

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

Is it a big job to swap the valves around? I'm trying to gauge the reaction of the RGI guys as I haven't heard back from them since I mentioned it.

Also is there likely any longterm damage caused by this setup vs standard?

Thanks!

Honestly, I don't know what kind of setup you have. I'd really have to look at the job to see.

mrcheez

no worries

Sleeper12

I am not rgi & I don't do gas boilers but I do know you should always fill or top up the system with the boiler off. This is an area of plumbing I haven't been in, in years but unless some new boiler manifacture has changed things (I really doubt it) then I strongly suggest something is wrong.

mrcheez

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I am not rgi & I don't do gas boilers but I do know you should always fill or top up the system with the boiler off

Any idea why? What is the risk?

I need to have a backup argument for the RGI.

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

Any idea why? What is the risk?

I need to have a backup argument for the RGI.

Nobody will know exactly how to diagnose your issue until someone is standing in front of the job I'd say. Where in the country are you based?

mrcheez

Dublin, but it's fine i'll get the RGI guys out. It would be good to know what risks are of having boiler on though. Maybe because it would be damaging if pressure accidentally went above 2 or 3 while it's on?

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

Dublin, but it's fine i'll get the RGI guys out. It would be good to know what risks are of having boiler on though. Maybe because it would be damaging if pressure accidentally went above 2 or 3 while it's on?

Your expansion vessel should absorb the pressure if it's properly charged and the safety valve will release excess pressure once it hits 3 bar. I'd recommend you get a proper second opinion though

K.Flyer

Is there any chance of putting up a few pictures of the valve arrangement.
It might help some of us to understand what you are looking at.

mrcheez

Here you go

mrcheez

Here's the filling valve

K.Flyer

Hmmm..
Looks like a standard filling loop from the mains. Don't understand the need to have your boiler running in order to fill the system. Unless it has something to do with mains water pressure being particularly poor.
I would be asking for an explanation frrom the installer.

mrcheez

Well the pump doesn't turn on when the boiler is running, so the water that comes into the system isn't aided pressure-wise, plus my kitchen cold tap comes from the mains and has plenty of pressure.

Does the filling valve take water from the tank (pictured on the right) or the mains? I'm assuming the mains as the tank wouldn't provide any pressure.

K.Flyer

It looks like the filling valve is branched off the main supply to the water tank.
Have they offered an explanation yet?
I'd be more concerned that you are loosing pressure regardless of how its filled.

mrcheez

Nah not yet, having a visit in a week or so.

Eddie694

Well what happens if your pressure gets to low? Most boilers wont even fire up if they drop below 0.5 of a bar.

mrcheez

I already asked, my boiler has a safety backup that prevents this being an issue. I don't know the tech specs, look up Worcester Bosch 34CDi

mrcheez

Update regarding the issue I'm having: unable to top-up boiler unless heating system is activated.

2 separate plumbers have been out from the RGI company that installed my system. Neither of them could figure out why the water wasn't coming into the system when the boiler was turned off (the actual plumber that installed the system has since left the company).

Is this something the electrician that installed the zoning controls would know?

If the entire RGI can't fix it, what are the next steps? Do I get them to hire another company to look??

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

Update regarding the issue I'm having: unable to top-up boiler unless heating system is activated.

2 separate plumbers have been out from the RGI company that installed my system. Neither of them could figure out why the water wasn't coming into the system when the boiler was turned off (the actual plumber that installed the system has since left the company).

Is this something the electrician that installed the zoning controls would know?

If the entire RGI can't fix it, what are the next steps? Do I get them to hire another company to look??

They can't see a problem cause it's them that installed it. Get somebody else to look at it

mrcheez

I'm assuming they need to pay for the other person to look at it?

It's a problem with their service so why would I need to be liable for it?

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

I'm assuming they need to pay for the other person to look at it?

It's a problem with their service so why would I need to be liable for it?

Send the bill to them

mrcheez

I'd want it in writing from them that I'd be reimbursed before I do that.

Dtp1979

mrcheez wrote: »

I'd want it in writing from them that I'd be reimbursed before I do that.

Ring them and see are they willing to pay somebody independent from them to have a look. I bet they won't though

mrcheez

Well i've paid enough for the system installation that they should be handling everything until it's all working.

I guess what I'm asking is what steps are to be taken if they don't end up cooperating and just ignore any further communication.

Go legal straight away or is there some sort of intermediary process?

murphaph

It'll be cheaper to get an independent opinion at your own cost than get a solicitor to write a letter! It's sh!t that you paid good money for something and haven't got it, but practically speaking you need to get a second (independent) opinion.

The system should not be losing pressure like this anyway. Frequent top ups are a sign of a deeper problem (leak or busted expansion vessel or something) that needs to be found and rectified.