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Gay Cake Controversy!

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    #632
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I refuse to tattoo swastikas, wolfangels etc. Am I wrong to do that?

    This has nothing to do with tattoos, though, does it?


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    #633
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    gozunda wrote: »
    Ok please provide the wording of the correct NI Law. I take it that you an expert on NI legislation.

    I'm not pretending to be an expert in the law. I was showing how aloyisious' definition of the law was way too open ended.


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    #634
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    old hippy wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with tattoos, though, does it?


    jesus man.

    I refuse to provide a service because I do not agree with the message. Do I need to walk you through it again?


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    #635
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Leave out anything to do with religion, most of the world has not changed the centuries old regulation that marriage is a legal instrument to recognise the union of one man and one woman, provided both are over a certain age and are not close blood relations.

    The political campaigns in various countries to extend that regulation to Same Sex couples is brand new and there is no consensus anywhere in it's favour. Holding the view that marriage should not be extended to Same Sex couples does not make a person homophobic or bigoted.

    Forcing others who do not agree with the campaign to do something to promote the campaign is a denial of their right to hold that point of view. Especially in a country where that point of view is upheld by the law.

    So nothing do with religion. Just plain old homophobia then?

    Smack me with a kipper!


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    #636
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Holding the view that marriage should not be extended to Same Sex couples does not make a person homophobic or bigoted.

    Actually, it does make you bigoted.


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    #637
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    jesus man.

    I refuse to provide a service because I do not agree with the message. Do I need to walk you through it again?

    If you mean the nazi swastika, as opposed to the Eastern swastika, that is a sign of hatred and tyranny.

    The cake in question was a sign for equality and love.

    Do you see the difference?


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    #638
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    old hippy wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with tattoos, though, does it?

    Bodice ripper is trying to show that she lets her conscience be her guide in terms of the work she produces. Should she have to do tattoos that she finds morally repugnant?


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    #639
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    old hippy wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with tattoos, though, does it?

    It's about providing a customised product that goes against the beliefs (political, religious, whatever) of the provider.

    Have a look at this case, where a printer in NI refused to print a gay magazine last year. I haven't been able to find any follow-up, legal or otherwise, and there's no mention of it on the Equality Commission website.

    Unless it's pending, or was settled out of court secretly with a media blackout, then it's not looking good for the people bringing the cake case.


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    #640
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    old hippy wrote: »
    If you mean the nazi swastika, as opposed to the Eastern swastika, that is a sign of hatred and tyranny.

    The cake in question was a sign for equality and love.

    Do you see the difference?


    so its ok to pick and choose based on personal opinion?


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    #641
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,854 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    old hippy wrote: »
    It does make them homophobic & bigoted. They are refusing equality to people who want to get married.

    The right to be bigoted for no other reason than irrational prejudice, you mean?

    Equality is coming. Prepare yourselves.

    Equality is not coming in the North. It is a very live political issue but the majority are against. In this country it is also a very live political issue and the outcome will be decided by referendum and equality will only come by the will of the majority. Will you call the people who vote NO bigoted and homophobic?

    Equality is certainly not coming in most of the rest of the world. Marriage is still recognised by the majority of countries and being only between one man and one woman.


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    #642
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I refuse to tattoo swastikas, wolfangels etc. Am I wrong to do that?


    Context is everything. The bakery representative refusal was stated as follows:

    "This order was at odds with our beliefs and in contradiction with what the Bible teaches".

    And they did in the knowledge that the order was for a LGBT event.

    No mention of the message. This is what has got them into trouble. Simple


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    #643
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    so its ok to pick and choose based on personal opinion?

    One is a message of hatred and persecution & one is a message of tolerance and love.

    The bakery is Christian, they won't promote the message of tolerance and love because it's part of their belief system to discriminate against gay people.
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Equality is not coming in the North. It is a very live political issue but the majority are against. In this country it is also a very live political issue and the outcome will be decided by referendum and equality will only come by the will of the majority. Will you call the people who vote NO bigoted and homophobic?

    Equality is certainly not coming in most of the rest of the world. Marriage is still recognised by the majority of countries and being only between one man and one woman.

    Yes, I will call the people who vote NO bigoted and homophobic. And selfish. There's no rational reason to vote that way.

    Equality is coming. If not this year, then the following year or the year after.


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    #644
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    That does seem completely wrong to me as well. If that was the case, I'd go into a bakery and ask them to make a cake of Jimmy Savile fondling a corpse and then sue when they refused to make it.


    You do know necrophillia is illegal? Or are you just sick?


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    #645
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,854 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    gozunda wrote: »
    You do know necrophillia is illegal? Or are you just sick?

    Same Sex Marriage is also illegal.


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    #646
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Is it not also discrimination to force someone to do something against their religious beliefs?


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    #647
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    gozunda wrote: »
    You do know necrophillia is illegal?

    Handy guide for necro-tourists:

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/16/necrophilia-is-legal-in-these-states


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    #648
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,854 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    old hippy wrote: »
    One is a message of hatred and persecution & one is a message of tolerance and love.

    The bakery is Christian, they won't promote the message of tolerance and love because it's part of their belief system to discriminate against gay people.



    Yes, I will call the people who vote NO bigoted and homophobic. And selfish. There's no rational reason to vote that way.

    Equality is coming. If not this year, then the following year or the year after.

    One reason is that same sex couples cannot ever produce children without the parentage involving someone else outside of the relationship. Which could have a bearing on inheritance rights. And is an argument that same sex marriage cannot be exactly the same as man woman marriage. Whether it is a rational argument depends on ones point of view and does not make someone homophobic.


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    #649
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Same Sex Marriage is also illegal.


    And you are equating marriage between
    Two consenting adults (Currently an issue of civil rights) with a sexual attack on a corpse??

    Boy you are one sick puppy


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    #650
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,587 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    gozunda wrote: »
    And you are equating marriage between
    Two consenting adults (Currently an issue of civil rights) with a sexual attack on a corpse??

    Boy you are one sick puppy

    Another strawman. You do love them so.


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    #651
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    gozunda wrote: »
    And you are equating marriage between
    Two consenting adults (Currently an issue of civil rights) with a sexual attack on a corpse??

    One is de rigueur, the other is de rigor mortis.


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    #652
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    old hippy wrote: »
    One is a message of hatred and persecution & one is a message of tolerance and love.

    The bakery is Christian, they won't promote the message of tolerance and love because it's part of their belief system to discriminate against gay people.
    ...
    Agree
    I reckon Jesus would turn in his grave ...

    resized_jesus-says-meme-generator-jesus-says-i-say-let-them-eat-cake-b6911a.jpg


  • Options
    #653
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    osarusan wrote: »
    Another strawman. You do love them so.

    Sometimes it's hard to think of a reasonable response when liberal rage has taken hold of you


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    #654
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    osarusan wrote: »
    Another strawman. You do love them so.

    If you check properly I didn't bring necrophilia into the argument. And yes the poster is equating the two. Check for yourself.
    Jester252 wrote: »
    Sometimes it's hard to think of a reasonable response when liberal rage has taken hold of you

    I will presume you are referring to yourself though I wouldn't class you as a 'liberal' by any means...;)


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    #655
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Same Sex Marriage is also illegal.

    And you're comparing them to each other? Seriously?
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    One reason is that same sex couples cannot ever produce children without the parentage involving someone else outside of the relationship. Which could have a bearing on inheritance rights. And is an argument that same sex marriage cannot be exactly the same as man woman marriage. Whether it is a rational argument depends on ones point of view and does not make someone homophobic.

    There are straight couples who cannot produce children. Is their marriage somehow different?

    Try harder.


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    #656
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    osarusan wrote: »
    Except for posters like flogg and joeyparrot, who say you are talking through your arse.

    You all are.

    It's seems not too many of you understand how equality legislation is applied and yet are arguing back and forth for pages now saying the same things and getting no where.

    We can't know unless we know all the facts. We don't have them. It is possible that there is indirect discrimination but that would depend on the general policy of the shop.

    And the customer doesn't need to be gay if the policy is primarily aimed at or disproportionately affect gay people.

    Can we please just wait until the matter goes to the county court instead of speculatin.


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    #657
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Sometimes it's hard to think of a reasonable response when liberal rage has taken hold of you

    Or religious rage, or irrational rage, or conservative rage. Take your pick.


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    #658
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Is it discrimination when a Jewish tattoo artist refuses to tattoo a swastikas on a neo-nazi. If the message doesn't matter than he discriminated against the neo-nazi.


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    #659
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Is it discrimination when a Jewish tattoo artist refuses to tattoo a swastikas on a neo-nazi. If the message doesn't matter than he discriminated against the neo-nazi.

    This is not about neo nazis or Jewish tattooists.

    As well you know.

    More obfuscation.


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    #660
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,854 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    old hippy wrote: »
    And you're comparing them to each other? Seriously?



    There are straight couples who cannot produce children. Is their marriage somehow different?

    Try harder.

    I put the word Ever in my sentence for exactly that reason.


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    #661
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    old hippy wrote: »
    This is not about neo nazis or Jewish tattooists.

    As well you know.

    More obfuscation.

    Can you answer the question?


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