Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Gay Cake Controversy!

Options
1…1819212324…129

Comments

  • Options
    #602
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    gozunda wrote: »
    As I said it has been put up as a question and answered many times in this thread already. As I said go order your cake and be happy. What's the problem.

    Do you believe that if, as a non-gay man, I ordered the same cake from Asher's, the bakery would have made it for me?


  • Options
    #603
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,587 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    gozunda wrote: »
    Your post didn't make sense imo. Hence the questions.


    Sorry, I don't believe you.


  • Options
    #604
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    golfball37 wrote: »
    Any business is perfectly within their rights to refuse somebody's custom.

    Another storm in a teacup made into a big issue by the minority who want to promote their victimhood agenda on the rest of us.

    With one teeny little exception ....

    Where it is found to be discrimination.

    Ignoring the legislation won't make it go away.


  • Options
    #605
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    osarusan wrote: »
    Sorry, I don't believe you.

    I don't understand your post!


  • Options
    #606
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,587 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    gozunda wrote: »
    I don't understand your post!

    I don't believe you. I think you are deliberately misrepresenting it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #607
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,575 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    This all boils down to the facts:

    A. The bakery is a commercial business open for the provision of goods to the public. It is NOT a religious body.

    B. A request was made by a member of the public to the bakery to provide a cake with writing on it.

    C. The writing, and not the cake, is what the bakery staff and management felt unable to provide.

    D. The law in N.I. on the sale and provision of goods is plain: providers are NOT allowed to refuse service when the refusal is to a
    particular member of the public, purely because that person's request is NOT to the personal taste of the provider or staff.

    E. The Gov't Department had/has NO choice but to apply the law as it stood/stand's.

    .....................................................................................................................................................................

    It's plain that the bakery was targetted by the person/s making/behind the request to see if it would supply the goods requested,
    but the request made was/is well within the law.


  • Options
    #608
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Do you believe that if, as a non-gay man, I ordered the same cake from Asher's, the bakery would have made it for me?


    Is there some mad reason you keep asking the same question that has been answered already many times in this thread?


  • Options
    #609
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,587 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    aloyisious wrote: »
    D. The law in N.I. on the sale and provision of goods is plain: providers are NOT allowed to refuse service when the refusal is to a
    particular member of the public, purely because that person's request is NOT to the personal taste of the provider or staff.

    If this is true, then the bakery have broken the law. It wouldn't a case of discrimination though.

    But I find it hard to believe that the law is as you have stated. If a person wanted a cake decorated with..for example, text saying "I wish it was Bloody Sunday every Sunday" then the bakery would be breaking the law to refuse to make and decorate the cake as ordered?

    Also, you use the term 'a particular member of the public' rather than just saying 'a member of the public'. Is there any significance to your use of the word 'particular'?


  • Options
    #610
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    gozunda wrote: »
    Is there some mad reason you keep asking the same question that has been answered already many times in this thread?

    Because you never seem to answer it.


  • Options
    #611
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,044 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    golfball37 wrote: »
    Any business is perfectly within their rights to refuse somebody's custom.

    Within the law. Its really that simple. I dont know whats difficult to understand about that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #612
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Because you never seem to answer it.


    But is has 'been answered'. Unless you are advocating trolling?


  • Options
    #613
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    golfball37 wrote: »
    Any business is perfectly within their rights to refuse somebody's custom.

    Another storm in a teacup made into a big issue by the minority who want to promote their victimhood agenda on the rest of us.

    Another step forward in the battle for equality and keeping the bigots at bay.

    Because of religious teachings, because of willful ignorance against gay people, because of intolerance and people trying to oppress homosexuals. Because of the gay people murdered all around the globe due to their orientation.

    Because of you.

    Because every small step is a step forward.

    BECAUSE.


  • Options
    #614
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,044 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    aloyisious wrote: »

    D. The law in N.I. on the sale and provision of goods is plain: providers are NOT allowed to refuse service when the refusal is to a
    particular member of the public, purely because that person's request is NOT to the personal taste of the provider or staff.
    .

    Sorry what? I dont think thats the law at all!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #615
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    aloyisious wrote: »

    ......

    It's plain that the bakery was targetted by the person/s making/behind the request to see if it would supply the goods requested,
    but the request made was/is well within the law.


    What evidence do you have for the that accusation?

    "The cake was ordered for an International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia event, hosted by Alliance councillor Andrew Muir, who said another bakery accepted the order"

    See

    http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-28206581

    There's even a photo of the cake (baked by another bakery) being cut by Andrew Muir ...


  • Options
    #616
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    lazygal wrote: »
    WTF is a bakery run on Christian values anyway?

    They give you a fraction of the cake you ordered and charge you extra on the basis that it will multiply endlessly when you start serving it?


  • Options
    #617
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    gozunda wrote: »
    But is has 'been answered'. Unless you are advocating trolling?

    No, I don't. I was asking your opinion. I've checked through your posts and you haven't answered it as far as I can tell.


  • Options
    #618
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    No, I don't. I was asking your opinion. I've checked through your posts and you haven't answered it as far as I can tell.


    Maybe you should read the full thread and actually find where this has been asked and answered. Or are you just picking on me for some particular reason?


  • Options
    #619
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Sorry what? I dont think thats the law at all!

    That does seem completely wrong to me as well. If that was the case, I'd go into a bakery and ask them to make a cake of Jimmy Savile fondling a corpse and then sue when they refused to make it.


  • Options
    #620
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    That does seem completely wrong to me as well. If that was the case, I'd go into a bakery and ask them to make a cake of Jimmy Savile fondling a corpse and then sue when they refused to make it.

    This is about equality for gays and fighting discrimination - not about necrophilia.


  • Options
    #621
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    gozunda wrote: »
    Maybe you should read the full thread and actually find where this has been asked and answered. Or are you just picking on me for some particular reason?

    I just want to get your personal opinion on what you think would happen. You seem unable or unwilling to give it…


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #622
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Quote: golfball37
    Any business is perfectly within their rights to refuse somebody's custom.
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Within the law. Its really that simple. I dont know whats difficult to understand about that.


    Well I guess that it's provably because it appears that refusal in this case was not 'within the law'. Hence the action of the Equality Commission. Tbh at this stage it's probably best you took it up with them rather than ignoring that.


  • Options
    #623
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    old hippy wrote: »
    This is about equality for gays and fighting discrimination - not about necrophilia.

    :rolleyes: I know it is. I was pointing out what was wrong with the wording of aloyisious' interpretation of NI law.
    D. The law in N.I. on the sale and provision of goods is plain: providers are NOT allowed to refuse service when the refusal is to a
    particular member of the public, purely because that person's request is NOT to the personal taste of the provider or staff.


  • Options
    #624
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    I just want to get your personal opinion on what you think would happen. You seem unable or unwilling to give it…

    You seem quite content to make the thread about something it's not. It's not about straight people being discriminated against or dead people.

    Why are you muddying the topic?


  • Options
    #625
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    I just want to get your personal opinion on what you think would happen. You seem unable or unwilling to give it…

    Why my personal opinion? You seem to be more interested in myself than what has been clearly stated multiple times already. Are you trying to impress me or something?


  • Options
    #626
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,854 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    old hippy wrote: »
    Another step forward in the battle for equality and keeping the bigots at bay.

    Because of religious teachings, because of willful ignorance against gay people, because of intolerance and people trying to oppress homosexuals. Because of the gay people murdered all around the globe due to their orientation.

    Because of you.

    Because every small step is a step forward.

    BECAUSE.

    Leave out anything to do with religion, most of the world has not changed the centuries old regulation that marriage is a legal instrument to recognise the union of one man and one woman, provided both are over a certain age and are not close blood relations.

    The political campaigns in various countries to extend that regulation to Same Sex couples is brand new and there is no consensus anywhere in it's favour. Holding the view that marriage should not be extended to Same Sex couples does not make a person homophobic or bigoted.

    Forcing others who do not agree with the campaign to do something to promote the campaign is a denial of their right to hold that point of view. Especially in a country where that point of view is upheld by the law.


  • Options
    #627
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    I refuse to tattoo swastikas, wolfangels etc. Am I wrong to do that?


  • Options
    #628
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    :rolleyes: I know it is. I was pointing out what was wrong with the wording of aloyisious' interpretation of NI law.

    Ok please provide the wording of the correct NI Law. I take it that you an expert on NI legislation.


  • Options
    #629
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Holding the view that marriage should not be extended to Same Sex couples does not make a person homophobic or bigoted.

    Forcing others who do not agree with the campaign to do something to promote the campaign is a denial of their right to hold that point of view. Especially in a country where that point of view is upheld by the law.

    It does make them homophobic & bigoted. They are refusing equality to people who want to get married.

    The right to be bigoted for no other reason than irrational prejudice, you mean?

    Equality is coming. Prepare yourselves.


  • Options
    #630
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    gozunda wrote: »
    Why my personal opinion? You seem to be more interested in myself than what has been clearly stated multiple times already. Are you trying to impress me or something?

    I simply wanted to know if you thought a non-gay man would have gotten the same cake made for him if he ordered it from that bakery - a reasonable question in relation to this discussion I think - and you refuse to answer. Why?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #631
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,587 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    old hippy wrote: »
    You seem quite content to make the thread about something it's not. It's not about straight people being discriminated against or dead people.

    The question of whether or not a heterosexual customer would have also been refused is not some irrelevance - it is central to the issue of establishing whether this is a case of discrimination.


Advertisement