Oireachtas TV

The Cush

On Dec 16th last RTÉ gave a closed presentation to the Joint sub-committee on Administration of the House of the Oireachtas regarding Oireachtas TV on Saorview. Summary of the presentation attached

The Cush

From a recent RTÉ discussion with the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications - http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/TRJ2015032500002?opendocument#H00100

Committee Video Playback - http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=28681&&CatID=127

Video playback 1:32:10

Senator John Whelan: ... I am a member of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. The Houses of the Oireachtas communications unit has put huge effort and resources into developing Oireachtas television. If we are discussing political balance, coverage of current affairs and the proceedings of the committees, the Seanad and the Dáil, it is shameful that RTE continues to refuse to provide a platform for broadcasts from the Oireachtas. Let me say to Mr. Bakhurse that RTE is looking for more money. It sought €1 million which has now been reduced to €500,000. Essentially RTE has tapped the Oireachtas, which is essentially the taxpayer, in order to broadcast the Oireachtas TV channel, which is being broadcast by RTE's rivals Sky, UPC and Eircom and is available through the Oireachtas streaming.

Let me put it to the Chair that this is not a good policy decision. I accept that the board does not interfere with day-to-day programming, rightly so, but from the policy perspective, I put it to Ms Doherty that this should be revisited by RTE. As the State broadcaster, contingent on the subvention that the taxpayer pays through the licence fee, it would be great to see the Oireachtas TV channel , which has been developed to a high level in terms of production values by the Houses of the Oireachtas communications unit and staff, made available on SAOIRVIEW. RTE should not be looking for more money in order to do this.

...

Video playback 1:55:45

Mr. Kevin Bakhurst: ... On Oireachtas TV, I think Senator John Whelan was slightly unfair on RTE. I know this is a bone of contention. The Senator might shake his head as I shook mine when he was making the point but I think, as he is aware, the pricing on SAORVIEW is not a matter for RTE. We do not have the ability to give the platform to Oireachtas TV. RTE does not have the platform. SAORVIEW has statutes and they govern what people have to be charged to be on there. It is a regulated statute that RTE does not have a concession over. We have been trying, as part of the consortium that runs SAORVIEW, to bring down the cost, because we are big supporters of Oireachtas TV, and we would like to try to have it on SAORVIEW. The reason why the cost has come down so far is because there have been other new entrants to SAOIRVIEW, such as UTV Ireland. The more broadcasters who are on there the greater the reduction for everyone who is one there because there is an overall cost of SAORVIEW which has to be divided up and there are statutes to govern that. It is not within the gift of RTE to give it for free. What we can do is try to build up a portfolio which brings the cost down as far as is possible and that is what we have done so far and what we will try to do in the future. We would very much like to see it on SAORVIEW.

The Cush wrote: »

As we've said here before why doesn't the Oireachtas change the legislation to allow free/reduced carriage.

Video playback 1:57:12

Senator John Whelan: I am familiar with that point. However, if it is not resolved in reasonably due course I will propose that we change the law.

Mr. Kevin Bakhurst: That is an option

---

Ms Moya Doherty: One of the first questions I asked when I took up my role as chair of RTE is why Oireachtas TV was not on SAORIVEW and I was given a paper with everything that Mr. Bakhurst has outlined. I certainly know that the board and I, as chair, very much want Oireachtas TV on SAORVIEW. I have gone back several times to the Director General on that point but it is a legislative issue and the members of the committee are the legislators.

Deputy Timmy Dooley: That is very welcome because unfortunately the communications around this House about that decision, as the Senator has outlined, have shown RTE as the baddie on this one so I welcome the fact that Mr. Bakhurst and Ms Doherty have clarified that issue.

STB.

No change there then. The paliamentarians want it to be free on Saorview, but dont want it coming out of their budget.

Senators saying that RTE is the PSB, and that the Oireachtas is the taxpayer, so just do it, is just not good enough in this day and age and is a throw back to the political attitude of the 70s and 80s. Referring to UPC and Sky as RTE's competitors in one breath having alienated the Free to Air Community on the Island by going on Pay Only Services exclusively first, just shows you how either ignorant or mercenary some parliamentarians are about Broadcasting. The realities behind RTE being a free to air PSB seems to have been totaly forgotten when it suits.

The simple solution is for the Houses of the Oireachtas to seek an extra 500k in their budget and pay the damn money. That way it keeps them independent of RTE who in turn through 2RN are trying to ensure that all stakeholders are paying for the platform and that they (and ultimately the TV licence payer) are not left with the bills. That way they RTE as a broadcaster can fulfill their primary statutory responsibility, to provide a free to air service to the Island.

Sam Russell

It is Comreg who have imposed a non-commercial regime for charging on Saorview. This was as a result of a complaint by TV3 who wanted a free ride. (No surprise there then).

Because they decided that the charges must be bandwidth based, and only bandwidth based, then 2RN have an income of €12m per annum guaranteed whatever happens, if they operate two muxes, which they do. 2RN have not managed to persuade TV3, TG4, nor UTVi to go HD while there is capacity for all three so to do. Consequently 2RN are forced to burn off unused capacity by broadcasting two HD and two SD channels of blank content. These are enough to provide the three HD channels, plus OTV.

A commercial company would give a 'free' introductory period, or persuade them all to 'jump together' so all benefit from the increased usage, and consequently reduced charges.

It is Comreg that's to blame.

The Cush

Deputy Timmy Dooley: That is very welcome because unfortunately the communications around this House about that decision, as the Senator has outlined, have shown RTE as the baddie on this one so I welcome the fact that Mr. Bakhurst and Ms Doherty have clarified that issue.

I think Timmy Dooley's contribution sums it up, the Ceann Comhairle/members/officials of the Houses Commission have taken a certain position on Oireachtas TV in relation to Saorview. They are communicating this as the only option to the other TDs/Senators which, as Timmy Dooley points out, has "shown RTE as the baddie on this one".

The two options open to the Commission are pay the tariff as required by legislation or change the legislation to allow a free/reduced tariff.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

The two options open to the Commission are pay the tariff as required by legislation or change the legislation to allow a free/reduced tariff.

There is another option. The Minister can instruct Comreg to review their decision with regard to the charging regime for Saorview such that a more commercial regime exists. This could allow reduced charges for OTV and it could allow reduced short term charges for HD. He could also lift the artificial limits on RTE such that it can use the two channels that earns no money for them (RTE 1+1 and RTE NN) and allow them full programme and advertising freedom.

There is no sense in any of these restrictions, except to benefit UPC and Sky.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is another option. The Minister can instruct Comreg to review their decision with regard to the charging regime for Saorview such that a more commercial regime exists. This could allow reduced charges for OTV and it could allow reduced short term charges for HD.

There are always other options but the broadcast transmission market here is now regarded as having SMP and so the tariffs are regulated under EU legislation via a Comreg decision. The Dept won't be intervening.

As regards reducing the charges for some, this will mean increasing the charges for others, the overall capital and operating costs remain the same no matter how many services are running on the 2 multiplexes.

STB.

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is Comreg who have imposed a non-commercial regime for charging on Saorview. This was as a result of a complaint by TV3 who wanted a free ride. (No surprise there then).

Because they decided that the charges must be bandwidth based, and only bandwidth based, then 2RN have an income of €12m per annum guaranteed whatever happens, if they operate two muxes, which they do. 2RN have not managed to persuade TV3, TG4, nor UTVi to go HD while there is capacity for all three so to do. Consequently 2RN are forced to burn off unused capacity by broadcasting two HD and two SD channels of blank content. These are enough to provide the three HD channels, plus OTV.

A commercial company would give a 'free' introductory period, or persuade them all to 'jump together' so all benefit from the increased usage, and consequently reduced charges.

It is Comreg that's to blame.

I do not get the reasoning behind "Burning off bandwidth". It is simply unused capacity on what is 2 PSB muxes. I have never seen the pupose of the placeholders and thats all they are.

The unfortunate thing is that there is a direct connection between RTE the broadcaster and 2RN the Network provider historically RTE Networks.

RTE should never have been charged with or given the responsibility of solely setting up and financing the digital platform that others were going to use. I do agree that it should have been the responsibility of Comreg. That way there could never be confusion or dragging of heels as regards paying up. But its too late for that. No doubt in the absence of anyone else else having the technical wherewithall and with ASO/DSO dates looming, RTE themselves had to take the reins and ultinately ended up investing €75million of their own money in its infrastructure. They also invested heavily in its promotion. It must be disappointing to have senators berating them for non free carriage having forgotten all that!

Outside of Comreg decisions governing them, RTE/2RN would have had a responsibility in recouping some of that money and not letting commercial companies on it for free. For that reasoning alone, there should be no distinction between content providers, even broadcast proceedings from the Houses of the Oireachtas, or all anarchy would prevail and then the only people left to pay would be you and I.

Tg4 (funded directly by the exchequer) the PSB have to pay for carriage. Why should it be any different for the Oireachtas ?

From reading the papers etc it wouldn't seem that the other channels have been kicking down the doors of 2RN for HD bandwidth capacity. I wonder why that is. Lets not forget that there is the unusual situation that we dont have a commercial mux, but that we have commercial companies (albeit with some PSB responsibilities) on a PSB Mux, the infrastructure for which was financed solely by one of the PSB's.

Sam Russell

STB. wrote: »

I do not get the reasoning behind "Burning off bandwidth". It is simply unused capacity on what is 2 PSB muxes. I have never seen the pupose of the placeholders and thats all they are.

The unfortunate thing is that there is a direct connection between RTE the broadcaster and 2RN the Network provider historically RTE Networks.

RTE should never have been charged with or given the responsibility of solely setting up and financing the digital platform that others were going to use. I do agree that it should have been the responsibility of Comreg. That way there could never be confusion or dragging of heels as regards paying up. But its too late for that. No doubt in the absence of anyone else else having the technical wherewithall and with ASO/DSO dates looming, RTE themselves had to take the reins and ultinately ended up investing €75million of their own money in its infrastructure. They also invested heavily in its promotion. It must be disappointing to have senators berating them for non free carriage having forgotten all that!

Outside of Comreg decisions governing them, RTE/2RN would have had a responsibility in recouping some of that money and not letting commercial companies on it for free. For that reasoning alone, there should be no distinction between content providers, even broadcast proceedings from the Houses of the Oireachtas, or all anarchy would prevail and then the only people left to pay would be you and I.

Tg4 (funded directly by the exchequer) the PSB have to pay for carriage. Why should it be any different for the Oireachtas ?

From reading the papers etc it wouldn't seem that the other channels have been kicking down the doors of 2RN for HD bandwidth capacity. I wonder why that is. Lets not forget that there is the unusual situation that we dont have a commercial mux, but that we have commercial companies (albeit with some PSB responsibilities) on a PSB Mux, the infrastructure for which was financed solely by one of the PSB's.

It would make sense if RTE, whose two muxes they are, took ownership of mux1 and transferred all their programming onto that mux. The second mux would then be available for lease to a consortium of the non-RTE broadcasters, at a fee of €6m pa, and they could do as they wished.

If that was done, they would all go HD, and divi up the rest of the bandwidth between themselves since they would be paying for it anyway. Surprisingly, this would be less cost than exists at present because of the unused bandwidth. Clearly, they are getting a good deal at present.

Then OTV would have to fight to get on it, and also to pay. It is only because RTE own the muxes that this 'free ride' culture has arisen, after all they are willing to pay Sky €250,000 per year.

Elmo

The Oireachtas want to present it as a free-ride and spin against RTÉ, RTÉ are an easy target.

You have the Minister saying he doesn't want to legislate to give funding for either IFB or OTV for transmission costs on Saorview because it would diminish RTÉ's, TG4's and BAI's funding for programme making.

Could someone show me the legislation enacted to give TG4 licence fee funding?

The legislators won't legislate for changes to the transmission costs. But then they won't legislate to increase ad mins on Independent Radio even though they are lobbying for some of the licence fee to go that way. But still TD's from the main political party suggest http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/commercial-stations-deserve-a-greater-share-of-licence-fee-31112799.html

The problem is someone will have to pay for the broadcast of OTV. Currently UPC and Eircom customers pay for the prevlidge, while everyone pays for Sky transmission and Sky customers pay twice through their subscription and direct taxation.

STB.

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would make sense if RTE, whose two muxes they are, took ownership of mux1 and transferred all their programming onto that mux. The second mux would then be available for lease to a consortium of the non-RTE broadcasters, at a fee of €6m pa, and they could do as they wished.

I wouldnt think its that simple from a technical or organisational viewpoint.

First off, RTE/2RN put up the €75m for the infrastructure. They are not going to hand it over to anyone I would imagine.

RTE cannot have all channels on the one Mux because of so called optisimation of the first Mux as far as I recall.

Sam Russell wrote: »

If that was done, they would all go HD, and divi up the rest of the bandwidth between themselves since they would be paying for it anyway. Surprisingly, this would be less cost than exists at present because of the unused bandwidth. Clearly, they are getting a good deal at present.

If money were not an issue and advertisers were fighting to get on, that might happen. But neither is the case. The commercial operators and other PSB have no interest in HD. They dont have the content, nor the money (certainly dont have €6m PA!) Just because the stereo light is on doesnt mean that its not just a 19kHz pilot tone!

Sam Russell wrote: »

Then OTV would have to fight to get on it, and also to pay. It is only because RTE own the muxes that this 'free ride' culture has arisen, after all they are willing to pay Sky €250,000 per year.

Its because RTE as an organisation, RTE the broadcaster and 2rn as a Network Provider are indistinguisable for pushy politicians with their own agendas. Nothing changes. They were not thinking of the public when they put OTV behind a paywall, they were thinking of themselves.

"Never mind we'll soon have our own fúcking station"

Sam Russell

STB. wrote: »

I wouldnt think its that simple from a technical or organisational viewpoint.

First off, RTE/2RN put up the €75m for the infrastructure. They are not going to hand it over to anyone I would imagine.

RTE cannot have all channels on the one Mux because of so called optisimation of the first Mux as far as I recall.

I said it should be leased to a consortium, not handed over. The optimisation of the mux would still be optimised, just differently.

If money were not an issue and advertisers were fighting to get on, that might happen. But neither is the case. The commercial operators and other PSB have no interest in HD. They dont have the content, nor the money (certainly dont have €6m PA!) Just because the stereo light is on doesnt mean that its not just a 19kHz pilot tone!

In alalogue days, a channel cost €3m pa. They paid or didn't broadcast. Now they are cribbing about paying anything. [Well at least one is!].

€6m would allow 3 HD channels at two SD channels, which I reckon would be €650k per SD, and €1.6m per HD. A better deal than on offer at present - but only if they fill the mux.

Its because RTE as an organisation, RTE the broadcaster and 2rn as a Network Provider are indistinguisable for pushy politicians with their own agendas. Nothing changes. They were not thinking of the public when they put OTV behind a paywall, they were thinking of themselves.

"Never mind we'll soon have our own fúcking station"

We are going back to Ray Burke times. And "thundering disgrace" times as well.

icdg

Mind the langauge

STB.

icdg wrote: »

Mind the langauge

Would you have said that to Charlie

Hotblack Desiato

STB. wrote: »

The simple solution is for the Houses of the Oireachtas to seek an extra 500k in their budget and pay the damn money.

Better still, seek 250k and stop paying Rupert Murdoch.

The Cush

STB. wrote: »

RTE themselves had to take the reins and ultinately ended up investing €75million of their own money in its infrastructure.

Small correction - Cost of building the Saorview network - €61m, Amount borrowed - €38.25m (RTÉNL 2013 accounts)

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Could someone show me the legislation enacted to give TG4 licence fee funding?

Budget 2011 - 5% reduction in the licence fee to RTÉ. That 5% was used to replace the reduction in direct exchequer funding to TG4 (2011 - €9.245m)

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

Budget 2011 - 5% reduction in the licence fee to RTÉ. That 5% was used to replace the reduction in direct exchequer funding to TG4 (2011 - €9.245m)

Is that legislation or just the budget, the minister said he also didn't want to introduce new legislation seems to me no legislation is required just a reduction going from RTÉ to OTV and IFB

Also it completely goes against the idea that RTÉ is financial independent from the government when it can systematically reduce its public funding. Via budgets and the minister's hold over advertising minutes.

expectationlost

in those above docs they said they could do a feed that would allow you to choose to see the committees aswell, be great if they did that

btw
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/oireachtas-tv-to-cost-15m-over-five-years-31281876.html

The Cush

expectationlost wrote: »

btw
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/oireachtas-tv-to-cost-15m-over-five-years-31281876.html

The current contract is due to expire at the end of the year. It's currently held by Pi Communications Limited who were awarded a 3 year contract in Dec 2010 to manage, operate and maintain the technical facilities for the televising of the Oireachtas, the value of the contract was €3.2 million plus VAT (copy of contract). The previous 5 year contract was held by Windmill Lane Ltd.

Tender - https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=88664&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders
Tender for consultancy in relation to the above contract - https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=88581&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Elmo

It would be nice to see the Irish broadcasters take an interest in the contract.

With a value of €3m and the amount of money given each year to political parties by the Oireachtas, I still don't see their issue with Saorview.

Charles Slane

Apparently it's on Channel 21 on Saorview now.

The Cush

Charles Slane wrote: »

Apparently it's on Channel 21 on Saorview now.

LCN 21 is the RTÉ News Now channel which relays Oireachtas TV during certain debates and committee discussions, LCN 22 is reserved for Oireachtas TV.

Charles Slane

The Cush wrote: »

LCN 21 is the RTÉ News Now channel which relays Oireachtas TV during certain debates and committee discussions, LCN 22 is reserved for Oireachtas TV.

Thanks, someone told me it was on and I thought it was either testing again or a deal had been made.

Sam Russell

Charles Slane wrote: »

Thanks, someone told me it was on and I thought it was either testing again or a deal had been made.

The only deal done has been with Sky - €250,000.

icdg

It is on UPC too.

Sam Russell

icdg wrote: »

It is on UPC too.

UPC does not cost them money. (As far as I know)

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

UPC does not cost them money. (As far as I know)

Though AFAIK they pay UPC for some facilities/up links???? I think it was mentioned in an FoI.

expectationlost

Oireachtas Broadcast and Channel Manager (Assistant Principal Grade) in the Houses of the Oireachtas Service

job ad http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=29648&&CatID=120


details http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/jobs/broadcastinfob20150917.pdf

fernrock

Who wants to watch oireachtas tv anyway.

There is more interesting and better entertainment and drama elsewhere.