People who never buy?

Grandpa Hassan

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I want to move around in m y life, choose a dozen different nice places to live, work in different countries...and pay a pension at a considerable amount, and save when I can.
Buying a house seems crazy to me because of that, who knows where I want to go and what hassle in would be in 1/3/5/10 years?

I'd have no problem buying a house outright on a good pension and also you don't have to live right in a place that workers want to live.

That is great. You are managing it perfectly, and you are nicely set up. But not many people who rent actually put extra money away to build up the savings / pension commensurate with those who have paid a mortgage and have an unencmbered asset at retirement. I know people in their late 30s who rent and have zero savings because either they have none left, or they see what is left as spending money. If it all went on a mortgage instead, they would have something to show for it at the end.

mariaalice

Sleepy wrote: »

I've not looked in detail as I'm a few years away from having a deposit but the first three are more commuter towns than Dublin "proper". Kinsealy looks interesting but I've been told a high proportion of those living around that area are settled (and not so setlled) travellers, a group with a bad track record of being good neighbours in my experience.

Some times you have to accept that you are not going to get every thing you want you are a little bit obsessed with "scubags" and now it settled travellers, and its not just in Dublin that this is happening there are people in London saying I want to live in Chiswick but they can only afford Essex.

Rush and Lusk are in Dublin and would be very nice places to raise a family lovey beaches ect.

Ray Palmer

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

You retire to a country with no rip off prices and a better climate which ensures you get to live longer while enjoying your pension at the same time.

You invested the money elsewhere which would have been used to buy a house and you get a far better return which is also more liquid and easier to cash in and spend.


You are not tied down to one location and can hence move countries or towns if you lose your job and have to get another one.

You are not gambling most of your income on the property roulette wheel

renting makes an awful lot of sense.

If you want to buy a home , then buy one in the place you wish to retire to.

I'll be damned if I want to retire to Tallaght , [no offence ]

Most of this has already been answered and pointed out as no really viable or reliant on downgrading you lifestyle/abandoning your home country /friend/family.
The money you spend on rent will normally be higher than a mortgage especially over time, you won't have money you would spend on a house to save as you spend it on your rent. You also want to be pretty good at investing your money to get the return you need.
In other words this is extremely unlikely to work and a massive gamble. Fine if you want to take that risk but to claim it is a great plan or smart move is not correct.

Tar.Aldarion

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

That is great. You are managing it perfectly, and you are nicely set up. But not many people who rent actually put extra money away to build up the savings / pension commensurate with those who have paid a mortgage and have an unencmbered asset at retirement. I know people in their late 30s who rent and have zero savings because either they have none left, or they see what is left as spending money. If it all went on a mortgage instead, they would have something to show for it at the end.

Yeah true, if people can't manage their money then they should be doing something like that, but people who cant manage their money never seem to see that there is a problem.
My father would have no pension but he has his house, which is most of what he needs. The shockingly low amount people put into their pension on average means they should be doing something else anyway.

Sleepy

mariaalice wrote: »

Some times you have to accept that you are not going to get every thing you want you are a little bit obsessed with "scubags" and now it settled travellers, and its not just in Dublin that this is happening there are people in London saying I want to live in Chiswick but they can only afford Essex.

Rush and Lusk are in Dublin and would be very nice places to raise a family lovey beaches ect.

Oh, I agree that you'll never get everything you want (short of a lotto win and, even then, you've no idea what the neighbours are like until you actually live with them).

Rush and Lusk will certainly be looked at when I get around to buying.

TBH, like most in my early 30's with a young family, I want to be able to provide the same sort of lifestyle for my kids as my parents provided me with: a detached 5 bed in a nice but not quite prestigious suburb.

My parents were able to buy that in Galway in 1994 for £84k. That's circa €170k when adjusted for inflation. The last (and by a long way, the worst) house on that road sold earlier this year for €335k. So, not quite double but as close as makes little difference. And that neighborhood while still decent wouldn't be as good now as it was then.

I earn a similar salary level to what my father did at the time he bought that house yet even bringing my expectations down to a 4 bed semi-detached version of that home in a similar neighbourhood, I'm not getting that for anything under €250k, or over 3 times what my parents could obtain better for!

Given that back then, the real trouble-makers tended to be confined to ghetto-ised council estates or high-rise monstrosities, maybe, as a result of changes in social housing policy, there aren't really as many "good" neighbourhoods nowadays and that's what's making it so hard to afford the ones that are easily identifiable such as Clontarf, Malahide, Blackrock, etc.

We all know that life isn't fair. Knowing that doesn't make it any less upsetting that even when you've "done everything right" regarding education and career, you're left with little to no realistic chance of ever obtaining the same lifestyle that the generation before you had (lottery/inheritance windfalls notwithstanding).

MouseTail

Sleepy wrote: »

Oh, I agree that you'll never get everything you want (short of a lotto win and, even then, you've no idea what the neighbours are like until you actually live with them).

Rush and Lusk will certainly be looked at when I get around to buying.

TBH, like most in my early 30's with a young family, I want to be able to provide the same sort of lifestyle for my kids as my parents provided me with: a detached 5 bed in a nice but not quite prestigious suburb.

My parents were able to buy that in Galway in 1994 for £84k. That's circa €170k when adjusted for inflation. The last (and by a long way, the worst) house on that road sold earlier this year for €335k. So, not quite double but as close as makes little difference. And that neighborhood while still decent wouldn't be as good now as it was then.

I earn a similar salary level to what my father did at the time he bought that house yet even bringing my expectations down to a 4 bed semi-detached version of that home in a similar neighbourhood, I'm not getting that for anything under €250k, or over 3 times what my parents could obtain better for!

Given that back then, the real trouble-makers tended to be confined to ghetto-ised council estates or high-rise monstrosities, maybe, as a result of changes in social housing policy, there aren't really as many "good" neighbourhoods nowadays and that's what's making it so hard to afford the ones that are easily identifiable such as Clontarf, Malahide, Blackrock, etc.

We all know that life isn't fair. Knowing that doesn't make it any less upsetting that even when you've "done everything right" regarding education and career, you're left with little to no realistic chance of ever obtaining the same lifestyle that the generation before you had (lottery/inheritance windfalls notwithstanding).

Ireland was a very different country, socially and economically 20 years ago. Your fathers timing was impeccible, buying just before a period of rapid economic growth and expansion. I'm not sure any price comparison before the mid 90s is valid really, due to factors such as female labour force participation, lack of immigration etc.

Ray Palmer

MouseTail wrote: »

Ireland was a very different country, socially and economically 20 years ago. Your fathers timing was impeccible, buying just before a period of rapid economic growth and expansion. I'm not sure any price comparison before the mid 90s is valid really, due to factors such as female labour force participation, lack of immigration etc.

The world is a different place. Double incomes are expected in order to do the same one salary could have achieved. It is an inevitability of the social changes to increase the work force by having woman join it. Everything is a trade off and you can't expect things to remain the same indefinitely.

To expect a 5 bed house on a single average income is now unreasonable. Wanting it is no surprise but you won't get it ever again the time is passed in this country. Then again the time of people having 9+ kids is pretty much gone too. Things change, some for the better and some for the worst. Maybe your parents lived in a golden age for property affordability versus income.

I actually predict many family home in Dublin Suburbs will be split in the future as few will be able to afford the entire house in the future. That is what has happened in most capital cities it is just a matter of the time frame.

London is full of form single family homes converted they just happen to be Victorian. That basically tells you these had been affordable for individual families on one income back then is no longer the case.

meeeeh

MouseTail wrote: »

Ireland was a very different country, socially and economically 20 years ago. Your fathers timing was impeccible, buying just before a period of rapid economic growth and expansion. I'm not sure any price comparison before the mid 90s is valid really, due to factors such as female labour force participation, lack of immigration etc.

I agree with this.

Houses maybe were cheaper but I bet if you do a comparison in disposable income, the previous generations had less. Quality of life isn't only what kind of house you can afford. And as stated above family homes are noIw mostly (I am guessing) being bought by two income earners so it is not surprising that prices are higher.

Mrs OBumble

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, like most in my early 30's with a young family, I want to be able to provide the same sort of lifestyle for my kids as my parents provided me with: a detached 5 bed in a nice but not quite prestigious suburb.

My parents were able to buy that in Galway in 1994 for £84k. That's circa €170k when adjusted for inflation. The last (and by a long way, the worst) house on that road sold earlier this year for €335k.

Guessing that you're the guy ... how many children do you expect your wife to bear? 'Cos if you're looking for 5brm, that's like a 7 or 8 kids. Not many families doing that these days, or houses built that large AFAIK.

Also, I'm curious where exactly your parents found that in a suburb which isn't quite so nice today? Salthill's the only place that springs to mind, and I'd see it as better today (now that the worse gaudy entertainment halls are gone), not worse. Knockers??? I didn't think there were too many 5brms there.

BeerSteakBirds

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Most of this has already been answered and pointed out as no really viable or reliant on downgrading you lifestyle/abandoning your home country /friend/family.
The money you spend on rent will normally be higher than a mortgage especially over time, you won't have money you would spend on a house to save as you spend it on your rent. You also want to be pretty good at investing your money to get the return you need.
In other words this is extremely unlikely to work and a massive gamble. Fine if you want to take that risk but to claim it is a great plan or smart move is not correct.

Show me the numbers, cost of insurance, maintenance etc and then prove to me that past performance will be repeated in the future . You cant'
Its all a big bluff. The gamble is in borrowing to invest. Thats some mental dichotomy there, a total compartmentalization of dreams from reality when you can call real investing a ''gamble'' when if done properly it is called not putting all your eggs in one basket and spreading risk and on the other hand you encourage someone to borrow to gamble on one house in one neighbourhood in one economy and tell him go on good lad .... nuts especially in a country like this one where there simply is not enough wealth to keep prices higher than in far wealthier capital cities, not short term , not medium term and not long term. Bubble prices will never return ever again. You can forget about it . There is no easy or sure way to make money unless someone takes commission off the top in which case they get a cut of everything sold whether it goes up or down

handlemaster

There a been a few view points expressed about renting all your life are there any posters in their 50/60/70 's here who have done that ? And how has it worked out ?

moxin

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, like most in my early 30's with a young family, I want to be able to provide the same sort of lifestyle for my kids as my parents provided me with: a detached 5 bed in a nice but not quite prestigious suburb.

Given that back then, the real trouble-makers tended to be confined to ghetto-ised council estates or high-rise monstrosities, maybe, as a result of changes in social housing policy, there aren't really as many "good" neighbourhoods nowadays and that's what's making it so hard to afford the ones that are easily identifiable such as Clontarf, Malahide, Blackrock, etc..

This type of post gets on my wick to be blunt. You'd swear from your post that 90% of Dublin is ghetto-ised which it is not, its nowhere near that amount.

There are plenty of areas outside Clontarf, Malahide, Blackrock which are "good" neighbourhoods in your words, I see a chip on your shoulder about areas which are not "good". As you state you are in Clontarf, what's wrong with nearby Raheny for example??

Dredd_J

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I want to move around in m y life, choose a dozen different nice places to live, work in different countries...and pay a pension at a considerable amount, and save when I can.
Buying a house seems crazy to me because of that, who knows where I want to go and what hassle in would be in 1/3/5/10 years?

I'd have no problem buying a house outright on a good pension and also you don't have to live right in a place that workers want to live.

Thats what I was like 20 years ago.
Things have changed a few times since then though.
Always what I thought I wanted ended up changing every couple of years.

Sleepy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Guessing that you're the guy ... how many children do you expect your wife to bear? 'Cos if you're looking for 5brm, that's like a 7 or 8 kids. Not many families doing that these days, or houses built that large AFAIK.

We've two and that's enough for us.

Also, I'm curious where exactly your parents found that in a suburb which isn't quite so nice today? Salthill's the only place that springs to mind, and I'd see it as better today (now that the worse gaudy entertainment halls are gone), not worse. Knockers??? I didn't think there were too many 5brms there.

Yep, Knocknacarra.

moxin wrote: »

This type of post gets on my wick to be blunt. You'd swear from your post that 90% of Dublin is ghetto-ised which it is not, its nowhere near that amount.

There are plenty of areas outside Clontarf, Malahide, Blackrock which are "good" neighbourhoods in your words, I see a chip on your shoulder about areas which are not "good". As you state you are in Clontarf, what's wrong with nearby Raheny for example??

Nothing wrong with Raheny at all. There are plenty of areas in the nearby areas that I'd be happy to buy a home in around the area: there'd be roads/estates in Fairview, Killester, Bayside, Sutton, even parts of Kilbarrack or Baldoyle that are quite nice. Only issue is affordability tbh.

ted1

Sleepy wrote: »

My parents were able to buy that in Galway in 1994 for £84k. That's circa €170k when adjusted for inflation. The last (and by a long way, the worst) house on that road sold earlier this year for €335k. So, not quite double but as close as makes little difference. And that neighborhood while still decent wouldn't be as good now as it was then.

what were the repayments on the house for 84k (€170k) compared to the house at €335k?

you'll probably find that the gap is much closer.