People who never buy?

L1011

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes Ireland is notorious for earthquakes. Even with 20 years on Ireland will have very few houses that will be effected by rising sea levels.

Plenty of houses that are uninsurable, borderline unsaleable and will eventually be structurally done for due to river flooding in Ireland as it is.

Sierra Oscar

patrickpaul wrote: »

type into google "Housing for older people - Citizens Information Board" this document pretty much explains it.

Not too easy to come across housing for older people these days, long waiting lists in the same way that there are long lists for general social housing.

handlemaster

MYOB wrote: »

Plenty of houses that are uninsurable, borderline unsaleable and will eventually be structurally done for due to river flooding in Ireland as it is.

Word to the wise don't buy them so.

Villa05

handlemaster wrote: »

It seems to me a lot of people complain when prices were high,complain when prices were low and now complain prices are going back up.

Are they the same people or a discussion amongst people with differing viewpoints.

handlemaster

Villa05 wrote: »

Are they the same people or a discussion amongst people with differing viewpoints.

the poster is giving reasons not to buy flooding etc.. simple ans is don't buy if you think you will need to buy a boat with the house.

Villa05

handlemaster wrote: »

It seems to me a lot of people complain when prices were high,complain when prices were low and now complain prices are going back up.

Are they the same people or a discussion amongst people with differing viewpoints.

mikom

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Have you heard of global warming and rising sea levels? There are some houses that you will not be able to live in in 20 years time.

Friends have been telling me that the earthquakes in New Zealand caused some people to re-think their retirement investment strategies. Relying heavily on property in one limited geographical area can leave you very exposed to the effects of a range of disaster situations that you cannot control or sometimes even insure against.

Chicken little likes this.
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Dredd_J

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This works brilliantly when you can buy an apartment for £40k and rents go up by 5% each year on average for the next 20 years (which is what happened in Dublin); not when you are buying one for €200k and then rents fall. And by the way, it doesn't make you clever. It just means that when you are 30 years old, property prices happened to be attractive at the time. And property prices in Dublin in the early 1990s was probably the most optimal in the past 50 years. You had choices that other generations don't have.

Of course its luck. In exactly the same way as im unlucky now that I cant find a house that im willing to part with enough money for.

Im also unlucky that its now the norm for dual income families to be competing when buying houses and they are just going to beat the single income buyer every time. So prices have gone up accordingly. Even though we are a dual income household we are hoping for a fall. But if it doesnt happen we wont fret over it wither.

The most important lesson people learn as they through life is that there are ups and downs with everything, including property, and you cant do anything about them. You strike while the iron is hot or you dont , but dont dwell on the opportunities you missed. there will be more to come some time in the future.

lima

whippet wrote: »

wow .. so much in this I don't know where to start.

First off ... the sense of entitlement is palpable from your post.

Secondly .. yes 'old' money exists and always will - but 'old' money can go bankrupt very quickly also and there is plenty of new money too!! .. such is society.

There are an abundance of affordable houses the length and breath of the country .. just in a small subsection of dublin the prices are out of reach of most ... not everyone can live in a couple of square miles ... so money will always talk in places like this.

It seems that you have a chip on your shoulder about people who own nice things?

For someone who says there is so much in my post, you haven't really given enough examples of what this 'much' is. Anyway...

1. I am not entitled to anything. But in other countries when you work your way up you are eventually able to afford a place to live. Yes, before you say 'why don't you emigrate' it is a viable option luckily.

2. Yes, you are correct that some who inherit money may squander it and become bankrupt. Also you are correct that there is plenty of new money too, which is fair game and good on them. I'm not sure where this comment ties in with my post though.

3. Yes there is available property outside of Dublin. This is known. However:
- Dublin is not New York, London, Paris or Singapore. Yes it is a capital city but it does not have the extreme population density of other cities, just bad planning by careless planners in cushy numbers. I cycled by so many derelict inner city sites today, that could have high rise accommodation in them. So many other cities have them but why not Dublin?

4. I do not have a chip on my shoulder, you are wrong. What I do not like is that 'fair play' is non-existant in Ireland. You need to have rich relatives to inherit money from to live in the huge D4/D6 houses, or else you need to screw someone over. For the people who are self-made - fair play and well done to them. But it's really about who you know in Ireland. Jobs for the boys and all that.

lima

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

You also make it sound like it is an absolute disaster to not own property. That you can't live any kind of a good life. Which is nonsense

It is not an absolute disaster to own property in my opinion. I have a great life, but..

When you have money in the bank there is a risk it can be taken from you by the EU or whatever such as the rumours go.

If you have property you cannot get your property repossessed in Ireland, especially if you have kids. You can stop paying and cry suicide or 'ah the poor kids' and you get to keep an asset.

Therefore if you have a property you have an asset that cannot be taken away from you.

lima

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh ever hear the saying "life isn't fair" ?

Look at this another way.

In the mid 2000s some people who didn't even finish school were making more money than those who had studied for years and had college degrees/professional qualifications.
Was that fair ?

In the late 90s you had eejits with a few months IT conversion courses walking into jobs that paid ridiculous amounts only for some longer term employees who had proper qualifications and struggled up through the ranks having to carry them because a) they really knew fook all and b) they didn't really care about IT as it was just the thing to be in for job prospects.
Was that fair ?

You played in a under 12 match and ref gave his favourite pet favourable treatment meaning you lost.
Was that fair ?

What is going on at the moment regarding property is going to bust or reverse in some fashion.
You know well you cannot continue to have a property market such as in Ireland where normal commerical rules and sanity are ignored or even turned on it's head.

Will that be fair ?
To some people probably not.

Yes, I have heard of life is not fair. It is especially not in Ireland, and nobody does anything about it.

lima

mariaalice wrote: »

I some what agree with you, one of my children would like to eventually buy near where she grew up, but while it was doable for her father and myself with very modes jobs and not much money and interest rates of 16%... it would be beyond impossible for any one today with similar jobs to buy in the same area, Where I disagree with you and its the same argument I have with my child it its not that you cant afford a home it is that you cant afford a home in the area you would like.

Its the same old south Dublin argument...south Dublin is both a actual place and a metaphysical place, it a place where generations of professional and state employees live, an area where education is valued , where discreet wealth is valued but not flashy wealth, where you take you children to France on holiday as opposed to a package holiday to Spain, good transport links, a nice environment and so on and so on. People want it because it is a pleasant way to live. It could be any part of Dublin or Ireland and housing has become very expensive in such areas. I do think wealth had become much more concentrated in certain areas , due mainly to money being inherited.

Not sure about the south Dublin paragraph but there are other places in Dublin that are as you describe.

Question is why population growth was not planned for? Why should people work harder for less than what their parents got? Dublin should have huge developments that can accommodate all these people, yet the govt is withholding huge stocks of apartments so that prices will rise. Why is no one doing anything about it?

lima

jmayo wrote: »

See post 78 where lima laments the lot of current 20 something generation who are faced with rising house prices, while at the same time everyone knows they will be able to save less due to higher taxes, less salary growth, etc.

They basically said only people with rich parents or inheirtance will succeed in buying houses.

My two examples were how during our tech and construction bubbles a lot of people who had busted their nuts getting good education were only as well off or even less well off as those who might have a lot less education.

Ulimately my point was that life isn't necessarily fair and just because you bust your nuts getting a degree, education, etc doesn't mean everything will be a bed of roses.

IMHO buying into the mantra that going to third level, etc is a guaranteed path to success is as false as Americans buying into the myth that everyone can live the American Dream.
It just aint so anymore and I am not sure if ever was.

The Irish Dream:

Doing an apprenticeship and making as much money as possible from 1998-2004, buying a huge house, getting laid off and getting to keep your house forever.

Mrs OBumble

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes Ireland is notorious for earthquakes. Even with 20 years on Ireland will have very few houses that will be effected by rising sea levels.

Different countries have different risks. No earthquakes here - but far more risk of flooding, rising sea levels, mass unemployment if US multinationals stop getting their tax breaks, and (IMHO) domestic terrorism.

But my point is that intelligent people are not seeing property-and-only-property as a good strategy. Some people had purchased say 6-10 rental properties in eastern Christchurch as their retirement strategy. Having them all together makes the property management a lot easier. But it exposes you to a lot more risk if things go wrong.

whippet

lima wrote: »

4. I do not have a chip on my shoulder, you are wrong. What I do not like is that 'fair play' is non-existant in Ireland. You need to have rich relatives to inherit money from to live in the huge D4/D6 houses, or else you need to screw someone over. For the people who are self-made - fair play and well done to them. But it's really about who you know in Ireland. Jobs for the boys and all that.

or you could just earn the money yourself to buy the big D4/6 house you crave so badly ... but as with anything in high demand the price will be reflective of the demand.
It seems ironic that you lament over the derelict parts of dublin and it's potential for high rise cheap accommodation ... but all the while use this as an argument as to why 'large' city houses are not affordable for the average joe soap.

lima

whippet wrote: »

or you could just earn the money yourself to buy the big D4/6 house you crave so badly ... but as with anything in high demand the price will be reflective of the demand.
It seems ironic that you lament over the derelict parts of dublin and it's potential for high rise cheap accommodation ... but all the while use this as an argument as to why 'large' city houses are not affordable for the average joe soap.

You have skipped over a relevant part of my comment where I said:

"For the people who are self-made - fair play and well done to them."

These people earned money by themselves to buy the big D4/D6 house. I do not crave this personally, but if I happened to be as successful as them I would be happy too. They are winners, well done to them.

It does not seem ironic. You are putting your words in my mouth, which is not a very clever thing to do. Of course high rise accommodation (I never said cheap either, you are again putting words in my mouth) is not going to make a 6br D4 house cheaper. But it will make apartments cheaper. Look at a 2br in Ranelagh, 450sqft goes for about 280-320k, which should be illegal as you cannot live in such a small area like that. But if say for example a highrise (think Melbourne Docklands high-rise living) was build in the docklands or south inner city (dolphin/fatima flats get knocked down for e.g) then this would bring down city centre apartments to an affordable level.

on_my_oe

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Different countries have different risks. No earthquakes here - but far more risk of flooding, rising sea levels, mass unemployment if US multinationals stop getting their tax breaks, and (IMHO) domestic terrorism.

But my point is that intelligent people are not seeing property-and-only-property as a good strategy. Some people had purchased say 6-10 rental properties in eastern Christchurch as their retirement strategy. Having them all together makes the property management a lot easier. But it exposes you to a lot more risk if things go wrong.

To be fair we didn't know there was a fault under us, although it shouldn't have been a surprise given the little trembles we felt.

---

Our retirement strategy won't involve concentrating assets in any country - after Cyprus we are hedging our bets far and wide.

Life isn't fair, and being honest there are times when I feel like I got kicked a bit more often than other people, but you have to deal with the situation at hand - that said, I won't be getting over anyone sitting in 'their' house not paying the mortgage.

Sleepy

I don't know if the problem is with housing policy, that large swathes of the Irish population are scumbags or if I'm just a snob but in my experience, most of areas in Dublin where a modest 3 bed terrace/semi comes on the market for anything less 250k aren't places you'd want to rear your children, even when geographically speaking these should be desirable areas to live in due to their proximity to employment and public amenities.

handlemaster

Sleepy wrote: »

I don't know if the problem is with housing policy, that large swathes of the Irish population are scumbags or if I'm just a snob but in my experience, most of areas in Dublin where a modest 3 bed terrace/semi comes on the market for anything less 250k aren't places you'd want to rear your children, even when geographically speaking these should be desirable areas to live in due to their proximity to employment and public amenities.[/QUO

the scumbags are the minority they just are the most promenant with their anti social behaviour. Even in the worst places for antisocial behaviour its still a minority that are scum

lima

Sleepy wrote: »

I don't know if the problem is with housing policy, that large swathes of the Irish population are scumbags or if I'm just a snob but in my experience, most of areas in Dublin where a modest 3 bed terrace/semi comes on the market for anything less 250k aren't places you'd want to rear your children, even when geographically speaking these should be desirable areas to live in due to their proximity to employment and public amenities.

That a core feature of Irish culture is out of control kids is another debate. If you're happy paying an astronomical amount of money for a house relative to other countries then it is going to impact your quality of life as you pay it off with such a large amount of your money.

Ray Palmer

handlemaster wrote: »

the scumbags are the minority they just are the most promenant with their anti social behaviour. Even in the worst places for antisocial behaviour its still a minority that are scum

While I agree with that mostly it is much more complex than that. Your kids go to school with these people's children and a bad apple does effect the who crate.
Try being a good kid in the local school in a deprived area and you won't do well socially or academically. There will be a lot stacked against you and bully will be a problem. Growing up near to one of the worst areas in the country and you could walk into the class room and point at the kids that came from the bad area and we wore uniforms. A close friend of mine came from the area and "bullying" because he didn't wear a track suit and carry on like his neighbours was vicious. I wouldn't call it bullying really as it was out an out violence verging on attempted murder. This includes people he new most of his childhood and would have been friends.
There is a lot of anti-social behaviour of minor levels that wouldn't register but are acceptable by a local community. It could be as simple as pirate videos and selling stolen goods to covering for local criminals at all levels of criminality.
I certainly would not live in parts of Dublin due to the dangers and certainly wouldn't want to raise kids there. I completely get why some people would refuse to buy in these areas and I think they are right.

The issue I have is the idea that the government should sort this out by building property for people as a solution. They created these places the first time around so it isn't a good idea to get them to do it again. It is a social issue not a housing issue.

BeerSteakBirds

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

How do you pay your rent when you retire?

You retire to a country with no rip off prices and a better climate which ensures you get to live longer while enjoying your pension at the same time.

You invested the money elsewhere which would have been used to buy a house and you get a far better return which is also more liquid and easier to cash in and spend.


You are not tied down to one location and can hence move countries or towns if you lose your job and have to get another one.

You are not gambling most of your income on the property roulette wheel

renting makes an awful lot of sense.

If you want to buy a home , then buy one in the place you wish to retire to.

I'll be damned if I want to retire to Tallaght , [no offence ]

Sleepy

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The issue I have is the idea that the government should sort this out by building property for people as a solution. They created these places the first time around so it isn't a good idea to get them to do it again. It is a social issue not a housing issue.

Well, since most those bad apples live in social housing, it's both.

mariaalice

Sleepy wrote: »

I don't know if the problem is with housing policy, that large swathes of the Irish population are scumbags or if I'm just a snob but in my experience, most of areas in Dublin where a modest 3 bed terrace/semi comes on the market for anything less 250k aren't places you'd want to rear your children, even when geographically speaking these should be desirable areas to live in due to their proximity to employment and public amenities.

Have you ever looked at Rush Lusk and Skerries or at Kinselly.

jonah_whale

lima wrote: »

That a core feature of Irish culture is out of control kids is another debate. If you're happy paying an astronomical amount of money for a house relative to other countries then it is going to impact your quality of life as you pay it off with such a large amount of your money.

houses in dublin are not astronomical relative to other european capitals or western capitals , in fact , they are slightly below average , houses in new zealand are kips compared to ireland yet are more expensive

on_my_oe

jonah_whale wrote: »

houses in dublin are not astronomical relative to other european capitals or western capitals , in fact , they are slightly below average , houses in new zealand are kips compared to ireland yet are more expensive

The majority of houses in NZ are detached, more spacious, include off street parking for several cars plus a garage you can park at least one car in, if not two. There is a separate utility room plus an outside line.

The downside is insulation is crap (but improving, thanks to grants), and yes, purchasing quite expensive. The government is trying to help by putting a 29% minimum deposit in place plus assistance to first home buyers. Also 'social housing' aka Housing New Zealand properties are usually grouped together so you can frequently avoid the feral folk.

MouseTail

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

You invested the money elsewhere which would have been used to buy a house and you get a far better return which is also more liquid and easier to cash in and spend.

But a mortgagee has much more disposable income to invest over the lifetime of the mortgage than a renter.

BeerSteakBirds

MouseTail wrote: »

But a mortgagee has much more disposable income to invest over the lifetime of the mortgage than a renter.

Show me some numbers . Do you realize that telling people to invest their money in a house is actually giving unsolicited unqualified unguaranteed investment advice ? If property is the way to go , then why Irish property ?


It is nuts to believe somebody should jump into a pyramid scheme because rents are artificially high or something along those lines. Money wont magically land out of the sky in the future just like it is not happening today.

what happens to the mortgagee if he loses his job and has to move, what does he do then ? how many houses do you expect him to rent or buy ?

Sleepy

mariaalice wrote: »

Have you ever looked at Rush Lusk and Skerries or at Kinselly.

I've not looked in detail as I'm a few years away from having a deposit but the first three are more commuter towns than Dublin "proper". Kinsealy looks interesting but I've been told a high proportion of those living around that area are settled (and not so setlled) travellers, a group with a bad track record of being good neighbours in my experience.

Tar.Aldarion

I want to move around in m y life, choose a dozen different nice places to live, work in different countries...and pay a pension at a considerable amount, and save when I can.
Buying a house seems crazy to me because of that, who knows where I want to go and what hassle in would be in 1/3/5/10 years?

I'd have no problem buying a house outright on a good pension and also you don't have to live right in a place that workers want to live.