Clerical Positions in the Civil and Public Service

weadick

barneystinson wrote: »

It's not just to fill those jobs though, and people can find out about a particular job when they're offered it and say no thanks if they don't want it!

That's true. Just offering a word of warning.

MIRMIR82

Just wondering, do you think I'd have any chance if i don't tick the Dublin area in the application form? Husband is waiting 6 years for a transfer from a Dublin prison to midlands one, I'm not willing to be in the same position in 6 years?

starlit

Can be difficult to get out of a Dublin job like that. They can do transfers alright but can take time. I would be in favour of not ticking Dublin if looking for a transfer.

starlit

barneystinson wrote: »

It's not just to fill those jobs though, and people can find out about a particular job when they're offered it and say no thanks if they don't want it!

Ya I think they can do that alright.

barneystinson

MIRMIR82 wrote: »

Just wondering, do you think I'd have any chance if i don't tick the Dublin area in the application form? Husband is waiting 6 years for a transfer from a Dublin prison to midlands one, I'm not willing to be in the same position in 6 years?

Are you asking if there's jobs outside of Dublin? If so, then the answer is yes, but obviously there'll be more jobs in Dublin.

starlit

There are more jobs in Dublin. Would you try any of the midland counties or Galway even?

They hardly all be jobs in prisons? Is it not jobs in the Public Expenditure and Reform Department and a few departments that be within it think the social welfare one is could I be wrong?

Divisadero

I was a permanent CO for a couple of years about ten years ago and a TCO more recently. Now I'm just guessing here but I'd say there are a lot of vacancies due to the virtual hiring embargo since the crash. It just depends how much of a budget they have to hire. Most of the vacancies are always in Dublin and I don't see that changing but there could be more vacancies outside Dublin than in previous years due to decentralisation. But it's hard to say. If you just want a job anywhere than it is important to include Dublin as one of your choices. Regarding degrees you certainly don't need one. In my opinion the most important part of the process is the tests. Unless things have changed the test is more important than the interview. You don't just need to pass the test you need to get a high enough score to get called to interview. I was told that during the Celtic Tiger when young kids ignored the Civil Service as a career anyone who simply passed was offered work but usually it is quite competitive.

Good luck.

InReality

I think its not the worst job by a lot shot. A lot will depend on your manager , and yourself , just like in any other job.
Now once your in , you can apply for jobs internally at any level in the civil service.
This is a big improvement from the old way of having to go from CO-EO etc.

bijou

Just out of interest, what are the pay scales for a PASO 3?

Are they the same as a CO. The booklet refers to pay as approx. 21k.

irishfeen

Would working inside the public service via an internship at the minute be any help lads and ladies?

weadick

bijou wrote: »

Just out of interest, what are the pay scales for a PASO 3?

Are they the same as a CO. The booklet refers to pay as approx. 21k.

The Prison Service just make it up as they go along...law unto themselves. As far as I know there are already two different payscales for PASO's doing the same job. This will make it three.

yenom

irishfeen wrote: »

Would working inside the public service via an internship at the minute be any help lads and ladies?

Yes, well at least for the Temporary Civil Servants it is. Any experience in administration will help.

WinterSong

This is probably a stupid question, so bear with me! :P

I applied a few days ago and was wondering if there's any way to add your CV to the application? The application form seemed incredibly basic and I'm worried I might have missed something!

cee_jay

WinterSong wrote: »

This is probably a stupid question, so bear with me! :P

I applied a few days ago and was wondering if there's any way to add your CV to the application? The application form seemed incredibly basic and I'm worried I might have missed something!

Nope, you didn't miss anything. You just submit your application, the next stage then is usually aptitude tests. If you reach the qualifying standard on that, you may be called to the next stage (interview). Before the interview you will be asked to complete an application form - basically work experience and experience/competencies in certain things.

WinterSong

cee_jay wrote: »

Nope, you didn't miss anything. You just submit your application, the next stage then is usually aptitude tests. If you reach the qualifying standard on that, you may be called to the next stage (interview). Before the interview you will be asked to complete an application form - basically work experience and experience/competencies in certain things.

Thanks a mil! I'm so used to spending ages on cover letters when applying for jobs that I'm a bit suspicious of anything that seems straightforward, even though the booklet seemed to indicate that the application was the only initial requirement. Time to get waiting, so.

another question

cee_jay wrote: »

Nope, you didn't miss anything. You just submit your application, the next stage then is usually aptitude tests. If you reach the qualifying standard on that, you may be called to the next stage (interview). Before the interview you will be asked to complete an application form - basically work experience and experience/competencies in certain things.

You don't by any chance know how long from the closing date the above process should take?

Tigger99

According to the CO booklet on the PAS page for this competition, which many people seem not to have read, there will be 2 aptitude tests, an unsupervised one that you can do at home then if your results are good enough you get through to a supervised one, probably in Croke Park or the RDS. Can't remember if they have venues down the country.

This extra step could add an extra month, could be anything up to 6 months from start to finish. The unsupervised one is a new thing, and PAS will need to give people a bit of time to access a computer etc so that's why it would take longer.

Don't forgot, after all the above is done, and the interview, you are placed on a panel and mightnt be called for a job for months after that, or never if they don't take everyone off the panel.

No doubt there will be many grumbles about how slow the process is, but that's the price of having a fair recruitment process with thousands upon thousands applying.

another question

Tigger99 wrote: »

According to the CO booklet on the PAS page for this competition, which many people seem not to have read.

I did in fact read the booklet, in full but it didn't give a timescale, I just thought someone on here may have some idea if they went through the recruitment process in the past.

Tigger99

But that's my point AQ. It depends on how many apply, on the new step, on where people place On the panel. Could be 6 months, could be 18.

InReality

It was 6 months between the exam and interview for 2 roles for me.
Took at least a year from exam to interview for another role.

When I passed an interview , it took another 6/7 months before I actually started work.
The panel moved at a kinda predicable speed , 1-2 people a month , I was about 14th I think.

Divisadero

Okay the booklet doesn't specify which methods they are going to use just those they may use. They may not have decided yet or are just covering themselves in case they change their minds but here's what they usually do and will most likely do again.

After you do the short online application and after the closing date you are invited to do an online questionnaire. You are marked on this. It is basically a lot of questions on past experience, suitability for the role and some hypothetical work scenarios. When hiring TCO's this is the only test used but for full-time CO's this is followed by more if you like traditional aptitude tests as in numerical and verbal reasoning type tests. They sometimes have these in small groups in the testing centre in Public Jobs or else a massive gathering somewhere like the RDS. Both tests are very important as they will decide who gets to the final stage which is the interview and count towards your final position on the hiring panel. Those who pass all stages will be put on a hiring panel in order of their results. I would say getting from here to interview could take anywhere from 3 to 6 months. Getting a job offer depends on the number of vacancies. But those at the top will get offered the first jobs and then they work down the panel as the jobs come in. The panel usually expires after about two years. Getting on the panel is not a guarantee of a job it simply depends on the number of vacancies.

Tigger99

Divisadero I don't know where you are getting your information but tco's will be subject to the exact same process. Unions tried to push for something different but it didn't work out. A lot of your reply is misleading to say the least. Have a read of page 8 of the CO booklet.

The aptitude test stages are used to narrow numbers called to put forward an application, so it's neither logical nor an efficient use of PAS's time and also the people applying to even get into past experience and suitability at those stages. The numbers applying will be large and have to be whittled down first.

stargazer 68

Do they still require you to have your leaving certificate? Friend of mine is in her 30's and failed her LC - was thinking of applying.

Divisadero

Tigger99 wrote: »

Divisadero I don't know where you are getting your information but tco's will be subject to the exact same process. Unions tried to push for something different but it didn't work out. A lot of your reply is misleading to say the least. Have a read of page 8 of the CO booklet.

The aptitude test stages are used to narrow numbers called to put forward an application, so it's neither logical nor an efficient use of PAS's time and also the people applying to even get into past experience and suitability at those stages. The numbers applying will be large and have to be whittled down first.

Very dismissive Tigger! You are right regarding TCO's my reply is somewhat misleading! What I meant is that to be hired as a TCO (in the first place) you only do the questionnaire and not the formal aptitude tests. I did not mean that current TCO's would get special treatment. The rest is an accurate description of the hiring process to date. It is of course all about reducing the numbers but you are marked on both the questionnaire and the aptitude test and the questionnaire is the next step and it does ask you about your past experience. So what's inaccurate about that?

BRYAN Is Ainm Dom

Dovies wrote: »

Do they still require you to have your leaving certificate? Friend of mine is in her 30's and failed her LC - was thinking of applying.

I work PS and one of my colleagues doesn't have it, I am unsure what the criteria is these days.

Technocentral

Dovies wrote: »

Do they still require you to have your leaving certificate? Friend of mine is in her 30's and failed her LC - was thinking of applying.

Didn't ask to produce it or any other degrees /cert's for that matter.

thisNthat

My opinion would be (and its just an opinion) that she could get in without it providing she has years of relevant experience (which if in her 30's she probably does).
Degree's etc would only really be necessary if applying for different internal positions which may require such qualifications as a prerequisite.

Dovies wrote: »

Do they still require you to have your leaving certificate? Friend of mine is in her 30's and failed her LC - was thinking of applying.

Divisadero

Regarding the Leaving Cert I can't answer that for sure but the fact that they have left it vague would lead me to think you don't. I mean if a degree or Leaving was a minimum requirement they would (or at least should!) state so. I suggest your friend phones the PAS and just asks them. She doesn't have to leave her name if she is for any reason uncomfortable phoning them. But they are fine to deal with. They will (hopefully) have an answer for her. The number is on their website.

sillysocks

When you do the first application now on the website do you put in your experience etc? Starting a new job this week so might wait til I have a better idea what I'm doing there before filling out the application, but if there's no detail on the first step of the application I might as well do it now.

KERSPLAT!

sillysocks wrote: »

When you do the first application now on the website do you put in your experience etc? Starting a new job this week so might wait til I have a better idea what I'm doing there before filling out the application, but if there's no detail on the first step of the application I might as well do it now.

Don't think there's anything bar name, address, PPS, DOB, e-mail

Zipppy

There was talk a while back of an Open EO competition....any word on this??

Maximus_1

Does everyone that gets one of these roles start on 21k regardless on qualifications etc? Thanks

Divisadero

Same pay for everyone or at least anyone who has never worked in the Civil Service before. These are entry level unskilled positions. By unskilled I mean you learn on the job. There is nothing to stop you from applying for the CO and then applying for the EO if there is an EO competition later on. Even if you are hired as a CO you can still go for the open EO. This is perfectly acceptable within the Civil Service.

Maximus_1

Divisadero wrote: »

Same pay for everyone or at least anyone who has never worked in the Civil Service before. These are entry level unskilled positions. By unskilled I mean you learn on the job. There is nothing to stop you from applying for the CO and then applying for the EO if there is an EO competition later on. Even if you are hired as a CO you can still go for the open EO. This is perfectly acceptable within the Civil Service.

Thanks. How long would you have to be in there before you can apply for those promotions?

Divisadero

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Thanks. How long would you have to be in there before you can apply for those promotions?

Internal promotions are different and you may need to be in the job for a while before you can apply. But an open competition is like it says. Open. It is like this CO competition you would be applying with people who are outside the Civil Service but want to start off as an EO instead of a CO. Unless they change the rules you should still be able to apply even from within the Civil Service. There is talk of an open EO comp later this year. But I know of nothing definite as of yet. So don't hold me to it!

Sorry if this is complicated. But the Public Service is a large and complicated beast...

starlit

If you worked in the civil/public service before do they not increase the pay a little or is the 21k standard salary for this campaign?

Divisadero

doovdela wrote: »

If you worked in the civil/public service before do they not increase the pay a little or is the 21k standard salary for this campaign?

As I said above it may be different for people who worked in the civil service before but I'm not sure and if nobody else on here can help you it would be best if you asked the Civil Service directly. I will bet it is complicated though and may depend on the length and type of your previous experience. I know I didn't qualify when I went back in as a TCO (having been a full-time CO previously). But it might be different for full-time appointments.

InReality

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Thanks. How long would you have to be in there before you can apply for those promotions?

Usually 2 years for Internal Competitions , might be 1 year at odd time.

SPM1959

Applied today.

the_syco

FYI, I believe today is the cut-off point...

starlit

Yes today is the deadline for applications.

Maximus_1

Didn't bother with this as it would be a big enough drop off in salary and after spending 5 years in college would be hard to swallow. Good luck to those boarders who did. I'm hoping an EO competition comes up in the not to distant future!

gazzer

Got an email in work the other day to say that there are a number of competitions due to take place in the next 6 months. I think they are confined ones though.

• Administrative Officer Competition: September 2014

• Executive Officer: November / December 2014

• Assistant Principal: late 2014 if possible within PAS schedule

gazzer

nukie1978 wrote: »

Legend has it there will be an open EO competition around the end of the year anyway. An open competition for generalist AOs would explain the recent rush to interview an unexpectedly large number of people for the specialist panel— the AO Law one anyway.

Presuming many of the same people would apply for general AO jobs as applied for the specialist positions, and those invited to interview would do similarly well in the aptitude tests, it would make sense to make sure you could fill all the relatively-hard to fill specialist positions before possibly offering the same people jobs in relatively-easy to fill generalist positions.

Im 10 years as an EO. I REALLY want a promotion so hoping that the internal AO will go ahead and that I will be successful at it.

gazzer

gazzer wrote: »

Got an email in work the other day to say that there are a number of competitions due to take place in the next 6 months. I think they are confined ones though.

• Administrative Officer Competition: September 2014

• Executive Officer: November / December 2014

• Assistant Principal: late 2014 if possible within PAS schedule

Yeah they are all confined with a HEO confined due in early 2015

Maximus_1

Oh well, there goes my hoping for an EO opportunity

ezra_pound

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Oh well, there goes my hoping for an EO opportunity

There Will be an open EO competition shortly as well.

Divisadero

I hope they do hire a decent number of EO's but I have a question for serving Civil Servants. Are the CO's and EO's in your office doing different or similar work? The reason I ask is that when I worked as a full-time CO there was a significant difference between the duties of both grades. If management thought you were up to it they would lumber you with some (or a lot of!) EO level work but my core duties were CO level. When I returned as a Temp CO last year (in a different department) the EO's and CO's were doing virtually the same work. This may have simply evolved on the ground due to staff shortages or may have been policy driven from the top. I can't say. Maybe they have learned a thing or two from the private sector! If so the unions have certainly dropped the ball. It does make me wonder about any forthcoming EO competitions though. If this is not an isolated exception and has become the norm they may not hire so many EO's. I mean why hire EO's when CO's can do the work for significantly less money?

gerbilgranny

Many many COs employed in the taxes section of Revenue do work which is significantly more 'complicated' than average Clerical Officer work.

barneystinson

gerbilgranny wrote: »

Many many COs employed in the taxes section of Revenue do work which is significantly more 'complicated' than average Clerical Officer work.

So the upcoming EO competition will be a great opportunity for them!