Unpopular GAA opinions you hold

citykat

Mountainlad wrote: »

How long ago was that? Using the two above examples I wouldn't be advising anyone to do it.

Yea mid noughties I think. Not sure how well it worked out for either of them tbh.

Mountainlad

citykat wrote: »

Yea mid noughties I think. Not sure how well it worked out for either of them tbh.

Kelly was very good around that time. He's not the kinda fella though that I'd want to have struggling to fill his days.

McConville's troubles have been well documented and I would imagine that having more time on his hands probably didn't help that situation. Think Griffin was still doing some farming at least.

freddiek

why does the GPA need to continue in existence??

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has its aims and objectives at outset not been implemented more or less in full?

I'm struggling to think why there is still a need for the GPA outside of its own commercial agenda.

citykat

freddiek wrote: »

why does the GPA need to continue in existence??

============

has its aims and objectives at outset not been implemented more or less in full?

I'm struggling to think why there is still a need for the GPA outside of its own commercial agenda.

Donal Og would have to get a real job.

Bogsnorkler

citykat wrote: »

Donal Og would have to get a real job.

Is he not a chemical engineer with Pfizer or summit?

tastyt

Inter county players are not as fit as full time professional athletes. They have reached a brilliant level as amateurs, but it is in recovery and rest that they suffer in. The lads have to go to work while full time athletes have recovery sessions, massages, flexibility sessions and people providing them with their meals. This enables them to train better and harder the next day while the gaa lads may be a bit sore and weary. Do not believe the myths that " x or y hada trial with Chelsea and was fitter than all their players ". That's simply untrue or one amazing exception. Sure we often hear of how teams are tired playing on a Sunday because they bad a game the previous Sunday or commentators praising players for battling through extre time while getting cramp.

Gaa players are very fit but professional athletes will always be a level above

freddiek

God be with the days when GAA players didn't think of themselves as pro. athletes.

and they had normal everyday jobs and they fitted in training and playing time around their jobs.

These days its the opposite.

Top players are now picking careers to suit their GAA activities! When did you last hear of a inter-county player being late for training?? used to be very common what with work schedules and commutes - that's all out the window now.

Goes back to my earlier post, the GPA achieved a lot for the ordinary player and it was long overdue but at the same time they created a monster as well.

dxhound2005

freddiek wrote: »

God be with the days when GAA players didn't think of themselves as pro. athletes.

and they had normal everyday jobs and they fitted in training and playing time around their jobs.

These days its the opposite.

Top players are now picking careers to suit their GAA activities! When did you last hear of a inter-county player being late for training?? used to be very common what with work schedules and commutes - that's all out the window now.

Goes back to my earlier post, the GPA achieved a lot for the ordinary player and it was long overdue but at the same time they created a monster as well.

How would I know if a player turned up late for training in Derry or Wicklow? How would you know? Who are these employers that take on GAA players and let them come and go depending on their training schedule? What was a normal everyday job in the good old days that none of them are doing now? You seem very clued up on the lives of hundreds if not thousands of players.

As I wrote about earlier actual professionalism and effectively pay for play existed back in your good old days and the rules had to be strengthened to knock this on the head.

There is a clear precedent. In 1954, the amateur status was first put into rule to stop teams holding full-time training camps for weeks before big finals. Teams on such camps were often paid for time off work ("broken-time payment") and even more. In 1953 Kerry allegedly spent £18 a week per player on training camps.

Amprodude

tastyt wrote: »

Inter county players are not as fit as full time professional athletes. They have reached a brilliant level as amateurs, but it is in recovery and rest that they suffer in. The lads have to go to work while full time athletes have recovery sessions, massages, flexibility sessions and people providing them with their meals. This enables them to train better and harder the next day while the gaa lads may be a bit sore and weary. Do not believe the myths that " x or y hada trial with Chelsea and was fitter than all their players ". That's simply untrue or one amazing exception. Sure we often hear of how teams are tired playing on a Sunday because they bad a game the previous Sunday or commentators praising players for battling through extre time while getting cramp.

Gaa players are very fit but professional athletes will always be a level above

Fully agree.

Just look at the Aussies playing us in International Rules, their fitness is always superior to ours.

Also GAA training is not as intense as someone doing rowing, cycling or MMA.

BonnieSituation

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

But in looking back and comparing these players from different ages, do we apply the thinking that ''oh well they would be conditioned like today's players if they were around now'' or do we credit much of today's players as being better because they are better physically than the guys of 20-30 years ago?

It's hard to tell but my reading of it and to be honest there's no other way I could read, it is that the best in any era would try to be the best no matter what the era.

Tommy Walsh or Henry playing in the fifties would not be as physically adept as they are now, obviously, but the determination that got them to the top would still be present theoretically. In other words I'm sure there would be a Henry Shefflin Cup if he was 50 years older.

I hope I am getting my point across?

ciarriaithuaidh

The top 10% of GAA players are a match for professionals in many aspects. Rugby players are always going to be heavier/stronger due to the contact nature of the sport, but even at that many GAA players wouldn't be found wanting.
In recent years the guys being tested by AFL teams have astounded some Australian coaches. Jack McCaffrey would have been in the elite AFL bracket for acceleration I'm told. Brendan Murphy shocked Sydney Swans coaches by placing third overall in a squad endurance test a couple of years ago and he was barely 19 I'd say. Bernard Jackman mentioned in an article that Leinster rugby tried to recruit him.
Yes, those guys are athletic freaks..but do people realise that the top GAA players are training twice a day in many cases? Gym sessions, yoga sessions, even squad training in the AM is now the norm in some places.
All that being said, I wonder is that sustainable for much longer. Guys are putting their bodies through the ringer, working full time (struggling to hold down jobs or having no job in some cases) and have less than optimal recovery time/strategies in most cases also as someone mentioned.

K-9

Mountainlad wrote: »

Hmm...that's an interesting one. In 2008, Tony Griffin took a year out from his studies to concentrate on hurling. He was the only player I've ever known to basically do this. I guess players would be full time training so to speak in any foreign training camps they'd have.

I wonder how much training professional soccer players actually do, I don't think it is typically 9-5, so the work the top GAA teams might well be pretty comparable.

eyescreamcone

K-9 wrote: »

I wonder how much training professional soccer players actually do, I don't think it is typically 9-5, so the work the top GAA teams might well be pretty comparable.

I hope you are not trying to compare any GAA team with say a premiership team. Only the very elite make it to the premiership. Intercounty GAA teams are far from elite.

Mountainlad

The problem is you're comparing to very different sports in very different systems.

If you play hurling, the most your preparing for to play is likely 5 games. If it's football it can be more but for say the top teams not likely to be much more than 6.

Soccer players at the highest level are likely playing for 40 (it's a minimum 48 for lower league english teams) games in a year or more.

Therefore the training will be different. There's no doubt the pre season they undergo, in terms of the preparation and level of attention to detail is ahead of GAA. I would say it's very intense. But once the season starts I would say they don't train to hard unless they get injured. It's more about recovery as you'll find them sometimes playing games 3 days after finishing one.

They are able to play these number of games because soccer is not as intense even if it is played for 20 minutes longer.

Even comparing football and hurling, football isn't as in intense to me. That's why the players are generally bigger than their hurling counterparts, they don't have to be quite as fast over 6 yards (that's my opinion anyway, not saying that is a good or bad thing before anybody comes in with a typical 'hurling man' says this nonsense rebuke).


I remember when Waterford played Cork in the replay in 2010, the game went to extra time so it was 90 minutes of hurling. They gauged Stephen Molumphy's running by putting a device on his jersey/shorts (bit sketchy on the details) and I believe he ran 17km. I'm pretty sure in the average soccer match the players that cover the most ground would be closer to 10km.

All I'm trying to get across is these sports are not as similar as it's often made out to be, and that needs to be factored in when considering the level of the respective athletes.

tastyt

Also lads ask yourself this, if gaa players were as fit , how come it's becoming more and more rare that players 30+ are able to compete with the younger guys?? It's because of the amateur status, it's impossible to combine top level training and a job and a family for so long. The lads who play to 34 or 35 are the small exception.

In my opinion the gaa have an awful lot to answer for as regards overtraining and burn out when these players are in their teens. More and harder training isn't always the way. Flogging young lads into the ground playing college, club u 21 and senior, intercounty u 21 and senior and maybe even dual playing aswell is another reason lads are spent by the time they are 30.

Didn't I hear that 3 players from the wexford u 21 panel last year had to undergo hip operations. That's usually a procedure for a pensioner to face into. That's shocking in anyone's book .

hurling_lad

tastyt wrote: »

Also lads ask yourself this, if gaa players were as fit , how come it's becoming more and more rare that players 30+ are able to compete with the younger guys?? It's because of the amateur status, it's impossible to combine top level training and a job and a family for so long. The lads who play to 34 or 35 are the small exception.

In my opinion the gaa have an awful lot to answer for as regards overtraining and burn out when these players are in their teens. More and harder training isn't always the way. Flogging young lads into the ground playing college, club u 21 and senior, intercounty u 21 and senior and maybe even dual playing aswell is another reason lads are spent by the time they are 30.

Didn't I hear that 3 players from the wexford u 21 panel last year had to undergo hip operations. That's usually a procedure for a pensioner to face into. That's shocking in anyone's book .

In fairness, I don't think that issues around the elite level of amateur sports being increasingly closed off to older lads is unique to the GAA.

My own sport was rowing and when I started it off in the early 90's most of the top-level crews were from normal clubs in Dublin, Limerick and the North whereas nowadays it's all college and college alumni clubs that are winning everything and the average age of the elite guys is around 4-5 years less than it used to be.

K-9

tastyt wrote: »

Also lads ask yourself this, if gaa players were as fit , how come it's becoming more and more rare that players 30+ are able to compete with the younger guys?? It's because of the amateur status, it's impossible to combine top level training and a job and a family for so long. The lads who play to 34 or 35 are the small exception.

In my opinion the gaa have an awful lot to answer for as regards overtraining and burn out when these players are in their teens. More and harder training isn't always the way. Flogging young lads into the ground playing college, club u 21 and senior, intercounty u 21 and senior and maybe even dual playing aswell is another reason lads are spent by the time they are 30.

Didn't I hear that 3 players from the wexford u 21 panel last year had to undergo hip operations. That's usually a procedure for a pensioner to face into. That's shocking in anyone's book .

Yes, but the main reason they retire earlier is because they are much fitter and far more is expected of them than 20 years ago.

tastyt

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but the main reason they retire earlier is because they are much fitter and far more is expected of them than 20 years ago.

That's very true. Too much for amateur players to cope with

freddiek

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How would I know if a player turned up late for training in Derry or Wicklow? How would you know? Who are these employers that take on GAA players and let them come and go depending on their training schedule? What was a normal everyday job in the good old days that none of them are doing now? You seem very clued up on the lives of hundreds if not thousands of players.

As I wrote about earlier actual professionalism and effectively pay for play existed back in your good old days and the rules had to be strengthened to knock this on the head.

There is a clear precedent. In 1954, the amateur status was first put into rule to stop teams holding full-time training camps for weeks before big finals. Teams on such camps were often paid for time off work ("broken-time payment") and even more. In 1953 Kerry allegedly spent £18 a week per player on training camps.

I think professionalism in terms of approach really took off with the Dubs - Kerry era in the 1970s. back then even the top players were content to play for the love of the game and were not concerned about compensation.

dxhound2005

freddiek wrote: »

I think professionalism in terms of approach really took off with the Dubs - Kerry era in the 1970s. back then even the top players were content to play for the love of the game and were not concerned about compensation.

So up until the 1950's when the GAA had to stamp out pay for play they were only in it for the money? And then there was some golden age until the GPA came along where it was pure amateurism? And now they are all in it only for the money again? And all through the years they loved the game so much that they went to America to play for no compensation.

Amprodude

freddiek wrote: »

I think professionalism in terms of approach really took off with the Dubs - Kerry era in the 1970s. back then even the top players were content to play for the love of the game and were not concerned about compensation.

Come on now. There is no comparison from modern gaa player to one in the 70s.i still think the training gaa players do is nothing compared to what a boxer will do preparing for a fight.

dxhound2005

Mountainlad wrote: »

The problem is you're comparing to very different sports in very different systems.

If you play hurling, the most your preparing for to play is likely 5 games. If it's football it can be more but for say the top teams not likely to be much more than 6.

Soccer players at the highest level are likely playing for 40 (it's a minimum 48 for lower league english teams) games in a year or more.

Therefore the training will be different. There's no doubt the pre season they undergo, in terms of the preparation and level of attention to detail is ahead of GAA. I would say it's very intense. But once the season starts I would say they don't train to hard unless they get injured. It's more about recovery as you'll find them sometimes playing games 3 days after finishing one.

They are able to play these number of games because soccer is not as intense even if it is played for 20 minutes longer.

Even comparing football and hurling, football isn't as in intense to me. That's why the players are generally bigger than their hurling counterparts, they don't have to be quite as fast over 6 yards (that's my opinion anyway, not saying that is a good or bad thing before anybody comes in with a typical 'hurling man' says this nonsense rebuke).


I remember when Waterford played Cork in the replay in 2010, the game went to extra time so it was 90 minutes of hurling. They gauged Stephen Molumphy's running by putting a device on his jersey/shorts (bit sketchy on the details) and I believe he ran 17km. I'm pretty sure in the average soccer match the players that cover the most ground would be closer to 10km.

All I'm trying to get across is these sports are not as similar as it's often made out to be, and that needs to be factored in when considering the level of the respective athletes.

Where are you getting this only 5 or 6 games from? A footballer could play up to 9 games in the League and maybe 6 in the Championship He could be on the county Under 21 panel as well. And if his club are county champions then over and above that campaign and the club league campaign he could have 5 or 6 more games in the All Ireland Club Championship. Many professional soccer players could sit out their club's 48 game season on the bench or maybe not even in the first team squad.

tastyt

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Where are you getting this only 5 or 6 games from? A footballer could play up to 9 games in the League and maybe 6 in the Championship He could be on the county Under 21 panel as well. And if his club are county champions then over and above that campaign and the club league campaign he could have 5 or 6 more games in the All Ireland Club Championship. Many professional soccer players could sit out their club's 48 game season on the bench or maybe not even in the first team squad.

I think we can surely all agree that a professional soccer match is on a different planet to a club gaa match ?

dxhound2005

tastyt wrote: »

I think we can surely all agree that a professional soccer match is on a different planet to a club gaa match ?

Depends at what level. Some lower league games in England attract crowds of less than 2,000. Anyway only counting inter county championship games is a nonsense. In that case plenty of players play only two games a year.

tastyt

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Depends at what level. Some lower league games in England attract crowds of less than 2,000. Anyway only counting inter county championship games is a nonsense. In that case plenty of players play only two games a year.

It doesn't matter what crowd a game attracts they are still full time professional athletes. And inter county games are the only games where all players would be anywhere near as fit as an average professional so it's only those games that should be counted

Mountainlad

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Where are you getting this only 5 or 6 games from? A footballer could play up to 9 games in the League and maybe 6 in the Championship He could be on the county Under 21 panel as well. And if his club are county champions then over and above that campaign and the club league campaign he could have 5 or 6 more games in the All Ireland Club Championship. Many professional soccer players could sit out their club's 48 game season on the bench or maybe not even in the first team squad.

Lets be honest, nobody gives a f*ck about the league. They are only half fit at that stage. It's basically pre season. If you're a County player, your peak is for the championship. Point taken re club level, but it's pretty fractured and applies to an even more select few.

Your right it depends on the player, and their age but I would say 30 games on average for the better players all of which they're expected to be at their peak. For County players, it's the duration of the championship for their respective teams.

megadodge

Amprodude wrote: »

Come on now. There is no comparison from modern gaa player to one in the 70s.i still think the training gaa players do is nothing compared to what a boxer will do preparing for a fight.

There's virtually no sport that can compare to the hardship of boxing/boxing training, so you're being seriously unfair with that comment.

freddiek

Amprodude wrote: »

Come on now. There is no comparison from modern gaa player to one in the 70s.i still think the training gaa players do is nothing compared to what a boxer will do preparing for a fight.

I'm not making a comparison.

all I'm saying is the elite gaelic footballers of the 1970s were as quote unquote professional as that era allowed.

dxhound2005

tastyt wrote: »

It doesn't matter what crowd a game attracts they are still full time professional athletes. And inter county games are the only games where all players would be anywhere near as fit as an average professional so it's only those games that should be counted

So these stories I heard about savage winter training sessions in the mud and snow with fellas puking their guts up are just fairy tales. No sand dunes, no mountain sides, no forest parks.

MaroonAndGreen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

So these stories I heard about savage winter training sessions in the mud and snow with fellas puking their guts up are just fairy tales. No sand dunes, no mountain sides, no forest parks.

That doesnt mean they are anywhere near as fit as a proper professional athlete in other field sports like soccer.

Soccer professionals are well and truly elite. Millions and millions play soccer worldwide yet there are probably less than 20,000 professionals id guess. Less than 1% of soccer players make it to be a pro, the ones that are professional are super super fit and in top physical shape. They are well and truly world class.

GAA players are so so far away from being elite (in international terms) its ridiculous. Less than 500,000 people play GAA, comparing even the very very best GAA players to a professional soccer player who has beaten off millions around the world to become a professional, is laughable.

And im a big big GAA fan by the way, im not biased in any way towards either sport, I think its just so wrong to compare a GAA player to a soccer player and try and claim that there isnt much between them.