Mother Child Homes Discussion ###DO NOT POST WITHOUT READING 1st POST###

Neyite

silverfeather wrote: »

I actually think it will take much longer.

Course it will. They've got to wait until the last of the old nuns directly involved in the M&B homes die off. You'll never see a single nun with direct involvement in these homes answer to an enquiry or to the Gardai. In a few years they'll trot out a younger nun who never set foot in a M&B home, who will say they've no knowledge of the atrocities committed, who will issue an apology on behalf of the Order while issuing some non-incriminating scraps of evidence of adoptions having destroyed the rest as an unconvincing attempt to pretend they are cooperating transparently with an investigation or inquiry.

Getting deja vu here...

Baggy Trousers

SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: Fears over ‘trafficking’ of children to the US


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/special-investigation-fears-over-trafficking-of-children-to-the-us-334315.html

Concerns that up to 1,000 children may have been “trafficked” to the US from the Tuam mother and baby home in “a scandal that dwarfs other, more recent issues with the Church and State” were raised by the HSE in 2012.

The warning is contained in an internal note of a teleconference in October 2012 with then assistant director of Children and Family Service Phil Garland and then head of the Medical Intelligence Unit Davida De La Harpe.
It ends with a recommendation that the then health minister be informed with a view to a state inquiry being launched. This was almost two years before revelations of a mass grave at the home forced the Government into launching a state inquiry into all mother and baby homes.


The note relays the concerns raised by the principal social worker for adoption in HSE West who had found “a large archive of photographs, documentation and correspondence relating to children sent for adoption to the USA” and “documentation in relation to discharges and admissions to psychiatric institutions in the Western area”.

PopePalpatine

*awaits drive-by post from pompous Ionanist*

osarusan

What I'd love to see happen is the state sue the absolute bollocks off them to the tune of billions, than take all the schools and accompanying land in lieu of cash payment.

SEPT 23 1989

I would like to see the FBI jackets in balaclavas raiding them as this state cannot be trusted to take them on as there are so many far right religious headbangers embedded in the government and civil service

Akrasia

There really really needs to be a proper investigation of this. This is not just a matter for historians to worry about, This home was run by the Sisters of Bon Secours up until 1961
The victims of this are still alive and deserve to be told the truth about what happened to them.

There are other homes around the country that had been engaging in the same kinds of activity up until the 1970s

Appalling appalling behaviour by the self appointed moral guardians.

Baggy Trousers

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/06/04/nation-fondly-misremembers-how-that-whole-tuam-babies-thing-was-sorted-out/

Originally Posted by Waterford Whispers
EARLIER this morning the Nation gathered together to fondly misremember the events surrounding the breaking of the Tuam babies scandal nearly a year ago, allowing for them to presume it has all been sorted out and everything is fine now. “Oh God yeah, do ya remember that? Every bloody country in the world covered it? But, sure look it, the Government stepped in – in fairness and so we all know what happened, and justice has been served,” Wicklow native Alison O’Brien erroneously asserted when she accidentally remembered it was nearly 12 months since the story came to prominence.

The Nation’s positive assertion that at least such a disturbing passage in recent Irish history had been fully explored and closure given to the country sits in contrast to fresh headlines that reveal as many as 1,000 children may have been illegally adopted to the United States. An apparent large scale human trafficking operation run by the church was brought to the attention of the HSE in 2012 with the possibility mooted that the church may have falsified death certificates for some children to facilitate them being sold to couples in the US, yet the Government took nearly another 3 years to act on the revelations.

“No, no, now I’m sure you’ve got that wrong. Sure that stuff is all done and dusted now and everyone is happy,” countered member of the public Roisin Cullen when told of the latest revelations. “I’m just glad we don’t have this cloud hanging over us anymore, and ya have to spare a thought for anyone from Tuam. The name was synonymous with that awful stuff, but at least some good came of it and we’ve got all the full facts,” added Sligo plumber Martin Shields.

It is still unclear as to why the Nation has falsely presumed everything has been sorted out, but it is speculated that it is simply an easier thing to contemplate than the possibile reality of living in a society in which being held to account is as real as a bare chested Gay Byrne battling a unicorn in a fight to the death on the moon. “I know it’s an odd thing to say but I’m proud that once the whole sorry news emerged, Ireland showed it had learned from previous church perpetrated scandals against women and children and had the proper framework in place to bring about a speedy inquiry and everything was put out there in the public domain,” explained Dublin man Henry Caulfield incorrectly.

“This was 800 children we’re talking about, so we weren’t going to take that lying down, it was great to see everyone band together and secure justice for the voiceless, the dead, the innocent,” offered Cavan father-of-two Paul Collins. Campaigners for the rights of children emerged in large numbers in the run up to the recent Marriage Equality referendum but it is believed none of them are banging down the doors of TV, radio and print publications in an effort to passionately discuss these shocking revelations at length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rjzjFbPduE

This shouldn't be let slide.

3:20 onwards

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/18/i-was-put-into-a-bag-and-told-i-was-going-into-a-bog-hole/

Baggy Trousers

That is tough viewing.

SEPT 23 1989

that man is on Newstalk now

Samaris

We do need to keep talking about this, we need more outrage. With all the things that go on in the world, we forget this very quickly.

Baggy Trousers

Samaris wrote: »

We do need to keep talking about this, we need more outrage. With all the things that go on in the world, we forget this very quickly.

Typical of this government, they kicked this can down the road hoping people would forget. The inquiry was given 3 years to complete which is a joke.

Baggy Trousers

Akrasia wrote: »

There really really needs to be a proper investigation of this. This is not just a matter for historians to worry about, This home was run by the Sisters of Bon Secours up until 1961
The victims of this are still alive and deserve to be told the truth about what happened to them.

There are other homes around the country that had been engaging in the same kinds of activity up until the 1970s

Appalling appalling behaviour by the self appointed moral guardians.

Do IONA ever comment on practices like this by the Roman catholic church against children?

Samaris

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Do IONA ever comment on practices like this by the Roman catholic church against children?

Never seen them do it..

Baggy Trousers

Couple finds baby’s cemetery plot sold for adult graves

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/couple-finds-baby-s-cemetery-plot-sold-for-adult-graves-1.2355090

Muahahaha

Last Friday, forensic archaeologists carried out a geophysical survey at the former site of the Tuam mother and baby home in Galway, where it is feared 796 children are buried.

The results of the survey, carried out at the behest of Judge Yvonne Murphy who is overseeing the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes, are not yet known.

In yesterday’s Irish Mail on Sunday, journalist Alison O’Reilly, who originally broke the story about the Tuam mother and baby home, reported a stand-off between the graveyard committee in Tuam and the families of babies who allegedly died there.

The graveyard committee doesn’t want any excavation to take place while the families feel, if they’re ever to find out what happened the children, the site must be excavated.

more here
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/10/12/meanwhile-in-tuam-3/

Baggy Trousers

Tough read but Catherine Corless deserves recognition for her work.

http://www.galwayindependent.com/news/topics/articles/2015/12/30/4111870-one-womans-quest-to-get-to-the-truth-of-the-tuam-home/

Bridget stated that the toddlers’ diet was very inadequate with sloppy porridge for breakfast, mushy potatoes for lunch and bread soaked in milk for dinner. Although the Home had a vegetable garden and kept pigs, chickens and hens, the children were never allocated any of this protein. A lot of the mothers were depressed, they were not allowed to talk while feeding their baby or to talk during meals. When Bridget experienced labour pains at 3am one early morning she was brought to the Maternity Unit at the back of the Home. A nurse examined her and she was then left on her own until 2pm the next day, as she said herself “to get on with it”. She got no comfort from anyone or no pain relief. After the birth she was kept in the ward for 10 days. Bridget stated also that they were allowed to write home once a month but the letters were always censored. Bridget remained for a year at the Home, but then had to part with her daughter and head off to England to make a new life for herself. - See more at: http://www.galwayindependent.com/news/topics/articles/2015/12/30/4111870-one-womans-quest-to-get-to-the-truth-of-the-tuam-home/#sthash.5ez6oat0.dpuf

nowanathiest

All of the discussions I have seen to date on this topic has been around Mothers/babies/nuns and priests.
why is there no discussion of the Fathers of these children and their obligations to the women and society?
Hundreds of men reading about the mass grave must realise is may be their child in there.....

Electric Sheep

nowanathiest wrote: »

All of the discussions I have seen to date on this topic has been around Mothers/babies/nuns and priests.
why is there no discussion of the Fathers of these children and their obligations to the women and society?
Hundreds of men reading about the mass grave must realise is may be their child in there.....

No doubt you will soon have a post from someone who "knows" that nobody in her family ever fathered one of "those" children.

It was all other people and other families, you see.

kylith

nowanathiest wrote: »

All of the discussions I have seen to date on this topic has been around Mothers/babies/nuns and priests.
why is there no discussion of the Fathers of these children and their obligations to the women and society?
Hundreds of men reading about the mass grave must realise is may be their child in there.....

Some of them did; all my maternal grand-uncles got married because they 'had to'. Some men wouldn't have known, some maybe didn't care, some weren't allowed to do the 'right thing' by the woman's family. Some were rapists, some were family members.

nowanathiest

This is a very interesting read on the history of how it all started and the scale of the operations:
www.irishcentral.com/news/what-should-you-know-about-mother-and-baby-homes-in-Ireland

nowanathiest

and if you track even further back it all becomes clear:

1834, Poor Law

http://spartacus-educational.com/Lpoor1834.htm

The Poor Law in Ireland, 1838-1948

http://www.history.ac.uk/ihr/Focus/welfare/articles/crossmanv.html

josip

Something about this that makes my blood boil every time I read about a new occurrence.

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2018/0601/967481-adoption-kevin-battle/

Kevin met his family who told him that his mother had been forced to give him up for adoption and that his adoptive parents had to pay a $1,000 donation to the religious order.

Kevin's mother had tried to find him but was told by the nuns at Sean Ross Abbey that he was dead.

...the nuns had told him his mother was dead, years before she passed away.

Bunch of heartless c***
I hope they're tormented forever in whatever version of hell they believed in.


(Mods, posting here as per the instructions in the opening post. If it's too old please open a new thread or I can. Tx)

recedite

nowanathiest wrote: »

and if you track even further back it all becomes clear:

1834, Poor Law

http://spartacus-educational.com/Lpoor1834.htm

The Poor Law in Ireland, 1838-1948

http://www.history.ac.uk/ihr/Focus/welfare/articles/crossmanv.html

That was the very beginnings of some sort of social welfare safety net, however inadequate.

But sadly after independence when Ireland had a chance to improve things the opposite happened. As residential institutions were being phased out across the water, they were being expanded here.

Best estimates suggest that, at the peak, there were 224 certified industrial schools in England and 50 in Scotland. There were others operating without certification or when certification had been removed. Name changing was common. Directly after World War I, one hundred closed and in 1933 there were only 55

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_school

Graces7

recedite wrote: »

That was the very beginnings of some sort of social welfare safety net, however inadequate.

But sadly after independence when Ireland had a chance to improve things the opposite happened. As residential institutions were being phased out across the water, they were being expanded here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_school

A massive power and money thirst.

And to control the errant classes..

Been planning this since the famine

The problem is that alongside this they established proper health care and education with great skill for the higher echelons,
When SIsters ran the hospitals, the places were spotless and germ free. Nuns take no wages and work hard for their keep

This was not part of any secular national plan. Look up Paul Cardinal Cullen and Rome's plans fr Ireland post famine. We were to be the breeding colonies for nun sand priests to then go out and conquer the world for Rome.

hatrickpatrick

What the actual f*ck is up with lying about peoples' deaths? The same thing happened to Christina Noble when her and her siblings were orphaned, they were split up, sent to different institutions and told that their other siblings were dead? Godwinning myself here, but breaking up families in this manner is concentration camp esque stuff. Honestly, what kind of human being tells a child that his or her siblings are dead when it isn't true?

Obviously I don't need to say this for the bajillionth time but sure screw it - every time I think about the fact that I was brought up as a member of this organisation and told by that organisation that it was here to uphold the word of Christ - "love thy neighbour" - it honestly makes my blood boil. I wish there was more we could to do overtly tell this organisation that we're done with it, without leaving room for them to claim that they're dying purely because of secularisation and changing times. It's because they committed unspeakable acts of evil and have consistently refused to repent for them, simple as that.