Irish man joining other armies

skooterblue2

I thought you were asked when you were being recruited if you served anywhere else?
If they did then they in breech of regulations.

Unless there has been some change in Regulations since the Good Friday agreement.

Doesnt sound right, does it?

skooterblue2

Just checked it with a few buddies..... it wouldn't be common place. Someone from families with strong allegiances to the state it might work for (See rank of Commandant/Superintendent and above). It would not be for every country either. I think the only one that would be palatable would be the British Army. And it would have to declared at the outset.

I have also sent off an email to the Recruitment Office for the Defence Force. So we will see how that turns out.

I would refer it back to section 8 of the Defense Force regulations act 1958 Part 2

"....while I am a man of the Permanent Defence Force I will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any political organisation or society or any secret society whatsoever and that, if I become a man of the Reserve Defence Force, I will not, while I am a man of the Reserve Defence Force, join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever."

My understanding of a secret society is any organisation that you wear an oath of secrecy and allegiance on a bible or similar text. This would cover any army, police, force, navy, associated organisation and similar organisations including secret organisations like SVdP, IRA, Grand Lodge, Grand Orient, Opus Dei etc etc I dont see how someone could take the oath of allegiance twice without one conflicting with the other.

pablomakaveli

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I thought you were asked when you were being recruited if you served anywhere else?
If they did then they in breech of regulations.

Unless there has been some change in Regulations since the Good Friday agreement.

Doesnt sound right, does it?

If you're a current member of another army or security force than that is a problem as you can't be in two armies at once.

Being a former member of another army isn't an issue as your service with them is over and isn't really a conflict of interest. ( unless that army is of a nation hostile to the country whose army you wish to join)

discus

skooterblue2 wrote: »

"....while I am a man of the Permanent Defence Force I will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any political organisation or society or any secret society whatsoever and that, if I become a man of the Reserve Defence Force, I will not, while I am a man of the Reserve Defence Force, join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever."

I dont see how someone could take the oath of allegiance twice without one conflicting with the other.

It's all in the wording.

skooterblue2

I know it is a bit of an extreme example ....... but I couldnt see a former member of the IRA, sitting down in front of an Army Recruitment Officer and saying "I cashed in my dental plan and pension and I want to come over to the other side"..... I believe old allegiances die hard..... as with the same for any other organisation in a similar vein.

plus there would always be that element of mistrust in the background

Remmy

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I know it is a bit of an extreme example ....... but I couldnt see a former member of the IRA, sitting down in front of an Army Recruitment Officer and saying "I cashed in my dental plan and pension and I want to come over to the other side"..... I believe old allegiances die hard..... as with the same for any other organisation in a similar vein.

plus there would always be that element of mistrust in the background

This has to be a troll job

skooterblue2

Well when I was in the FCA there was plenty of mistrust for anyone outside the Irish security and defence forces....... and rightly so. That was well before the good friday agreement and the joint declaration.

Frosty McSnowballs

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Just checked it with a few buddies..... it wouldn't be common place. Someone from families with strong allegiances to the state it might work for (See rank of Commandant/Superintendent and above). It would not be for every country either. I think the only one that would be palatable would be the British Army. And it would have to declared at the outset.

I have also sent off an email to the Recruitment Office for the Defence Force. So we will see how that turns out.

I would refer it back to section 8 of the Defense Force regulations act 1958 Part 2

"....while I am a man of the Permanent Defence Force I will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any political organisation or society or any secret society whatsoever and that, if I become a man of the Reserve Defence Force, I will not, while I am a man of the Reserve Defence Force, join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever."

My understanding of a secret society is any organisation that you wear an oath of secrecy and allegiance on a bible or similar text. This would cover any army, police, force, navy, associated organisation and similar organisations including secret organisations like SVdP, IRA, Grand Lodge, Grand Orient, Opus Dei etc etc I dont see how someone could take the oath of allegiance twice without one conflicting with the other.

Hhhhmmmmmmm, I know lads in the PDF who have previously served in other militaries. It may not be common place but it definitely has NOTHING to do with "families with strong allegiances to the state". I don't know where you are getting that bollox from.

And quoting the oath is also a load of bollox. Did you even read what you wrote?

skooterblue2

The Oath is not a load of Bollocks..... It is referenced. The source for the coming back into the Irish Defence Forces was the nephew of the Head surgeon of the British army and Adjutant of the Medical Corp. He was from a prominent Cork Medical family.

Yes I did read what I wrote and spell checked it. Did you read what you wrote? "And", you don't start a sentence with a conjunction.

Frosty McSnowballs

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The Oath is not a load of Bollocks..... It is referenced. The source for the coming back into the Irish Defence Forces was the nephew of the Head surgeon of the British army and Adjutant of the Medical Corp. He was from a prominent Cork Medical family.

Yes I did read what I wrote and spell checked it. Did you read what you wrote? "And", you don't start a sentence with a conjunction.

The Oath is not a load of bollox, however, your reference to it is. And, I can start a sentence whichever way I like.

skooterblue2

Yeah that is why I joined the FCA to defend your right to free speech

Local-womanizer

Has to be a pisstake!

skooterblue2

Nope Col Coakley was in the british army, his brother was the state pathologist, his other brother was an eye specialist and his nephew is a Radiologist specialist in the states

tbradman

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I know it is a bit of an extreme example ....... but I couldnt see a former member of the IRA, sitting down in front of an Army Recruitment Officer and saying "I cashed in my dental plan and pension and I want to come over to the other side"..... I believe old allegiances die hard..... as with the same for any other organisation in a similar vein.

plus there would always be that element of mistrust in the background

That's not really as extreme example as you might think... I mean if a current or former member of the IRA can be a current sitting TD, what's to stop them joining the Irish Defence Forces.

But you are right there will always be an element of mistrust of people from that background.

skooterblue2

tbradman wrote: »

I mean if a current or former member of the IRA can be a current sitting TD, what's to stop them joining the Irish Defence Forces.

The IRA has decommissioned, stopped intelligence gathering, recruiting, fundraising and playing ring and run, and other miscellaneous activities.

Any TDs who may have been associated with times place, dates, big bag o' quick lime and shovel, going for late night romantic strolls out on the Cooley Pinunsula, getting budget holiday packages to a fledgling Libyan holiday resort or taking minibreaks in North Korea ...... have denied any knowledge of any events.

Dont see going too well in the mess.

tac foley

Do you mean PIRA?

If the person concerned WAS IRA then he or she is going be pretty old, right?

BTW, the IRA is a proscribed organisation in the UK under the Terrorism Act 2000 and an unlawful organisation in the Republic of Ireland.. The United States includes them in the category of "other selected terrorist groups also deemed of relevance in the global war on terrorism".

tac

skooterblue2

tac foley wrote: »

Do you mean PIRA?

If the person concerned WAS IRA then he or she is going be pretty old, right?

tac

When I say IRA, I mean that as to cover ..the Provisional Irish Republican Army, INLA, Real IRA, 32 Sovereignty committee, diet IRA, One Calorie IRA, Sugar free IRA .....etc etc

If I was referring to any such person, would you hold a prejudice his/her nephew or niece if they applied for membership of the Defence Forces?

tac foley

skooterblue2 wrote: »

If I was referring to any such person, would you hold a prejudice his/her nephew or niece if they applied for membership of the Defence Forces?

Not in the least.

Providing, of course that the oath they take on joining is not a simple mouthing of words, or that they shared the political views of their relative.

tac

skooterblue2

You remember the 1970 Arms Crisis? CJ Haughey, Albert Luykx and the two army Officers?

They bought cira 500 FN rifles? They werent exactly the same as the ones used in the Irish army ..... different material for hand-guards and the Energa sight but I would say the working parts were 100% interchangable. The plan was that FCA lads coming on camp would be able to swop worn parts (Piston and Piston springs) and it would not be noticed.

People (criminals) take an oath every day in court and commit perjury down on top of it. In my experience the apple never falls far from the tree.

Manic Moran

Were Irish FALs imperial or metric?

skooterblue2

All metric AFAIK. Werent they all? All copies of Fabrique Nationale FAL? never heard of any other caliber other than 7.62 with .22 training conversion kit.

tac foley

skooterblue2 wrote: »

All metric AFAIK. Werent they all? All copies of Fabrique Nationale FAL? never heard of any other caliber other than 7.62 with .22 training conversion kit.

FAL = Fusil Automatique Legére = light semi-automatic rifle.

Not a copy of the FN FAL, but made by FN in the Herstal factory of FN under contract from the Irish government of the day.

ALL FALs were metric. The British license-made version was all imperial, except for the calibre, obviously, and was made at the Enfield Lock Arsenal just north of London. Not a rip-off copy, you'll note, but a license-built version for which the British govenment paid a hefty sum of money. It was designated in-service as the Rifle, Self-loading L1A1, commonly called the SLR. A royalty was also paid on each weapon. Nobody EVER made a version that was not licensed from or royalty-paid from FN, and it used, in one form or another, by over 90 countires, including most of NATO. The US at the same time, developed the M1 Garand into the M14, in the same calibre.

The FAL/SLR, only ever made in 7.62x51, was rightly called 'the Free World's Battle rifle'.

tac

neilled

skooterblue2 wrote: »

My friend was a Sergeant in the FCA in Kilkenny and he left it too long to apply for the PDF. He was furious and he went over to join E company of the Irish Guards in the British Army. He went over a served a few years and he was very happy to get out.

Once you leave and join a foreign security service (police army or other) you cant return to Ireland and apply to join here when you come back, that door is closed.

You are misinformed regarding this mater. That is fact.

Hedgemeister

We had five ex-BA lads in my recruit platoon, two were ex-Paras, and one of these had been in the Irish Army before that. They started at the beginning with the rest of us and took rough with the smooth without complaint, even though they had been through it all, and more, across the pond.

On the other hand, we had a three or four ex-FCA lads who thought they knew more than our Instructors, even before our training started. They didn't last long and none made it to the Final Approval stage, just six weeks in.

Down through the years we had South Africans, Dutch, Israelis, Syrians and many more Nationalities joined the PDF in the seventies, eighties and nineties.

TransplantedDub

pvt message sent

TransplantedDub

Mackas_view wrote: »

Get the pictures up :-)

private message sent

skooterblue2

Well I will put my hand up when I am wrong and there you have it. Also my information was second hand or maybe even further from the source..... The Guy I was thinking off missed the PDF recruitment by maybe 3 years. Things were very tight on recruitment as regards age, British army is much more relaxed. There may also have been some begrudgery there also in the background as to why he didnt return to the FCA. That was from an Officer in the FCA at the time.

I still haven't received a reply back from the Press Office. I have heard of people from other nationalities joining the defence forces but they were either naturalised from an early age or dual citizenship.

Muahahaha

TransplantedDub wrote: »

Not true... I work for a defense contractor and have clearance to go on AF bases....Dublin born, US permanent resident, and Irish passport holder.....people can join the US armed forces and become naturalized. not any national guard entity though. 25 years here now...not all scenarios are publicly available via internet search...where theres a will theres a way....I built Felix Baumgartners helmets and worked on his suit...some would say that would be someones dream....never thought I would have those opportunities back in 1989...let the guy dream (in case you think I'm BS I have photos :-)

That is one cool helmet, fair play. Can you tell us a bit about the glass and what kind of forces it needed to be able to resist ? I just loved that skydive at the time, it was totally off the wall what Felix did.

TransplantedDub

Muahahaha wrote: »

That is one cool helmet, fair play. Can you tell us a bit about the glass and what kind of forces it needed to be able to resist ? I just loved that skydive at the time, it was totally off the wall what Felix did.

As father Jack (from father ted)would say :"that wud be an ecumenical matter"
Proprietry info and all........not glass anyhow.
When he stepped off the gondola ,there little to no pressure until he had fallen to a lower altitude . So when he hit mach 1.25 its not like he stuck his head out of the old sr-71 plane. Biggest challenges....cold....that spin he took while still in rarefied athmosphere, which if you noticed he came out of when he hit thicker air. Look up articles on the U-2 PPA S1034E, basically the same suit, made for a pilot ,instead of a high altitude skyjumper.

Muahahaha

Was just looking at the U2 suit on www.davidclarkcompany.com - that's some bit of kit !