796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

Czarcasm

Resonator75 wrote: »

Id wager the defenders of this shyte have never suffered a hard day in their lives because of the system.


I mean Czarcasm, come on man???

Resonator despite what other posters are claiming here, I would welcome you to take a look back through my recent post history and see for yourself between this thread and the thread in the A&A forum, I've done everything BUT defend anyone who was complicit in the suffering that was inflicted on these women and children. If we're supposed to be calling for an independent investigation into this, then we have to leave aside our bias and examine the evidence objectively. People with a bias against the RCC will ignore everyone else involved, I mean, that's convenient when you hate the RCC, but it means the Gardaí, the media, the Health Services, the Government, the ancillary services that profited from the laundries... they all get a free pass?

What kind of an investigation is that?


I've posted my experience earlier in this thread, but Resonator it's only a mere glimpse of the physical and mental torture I was subjected to as a child -

I was brought up in a home where both my parents were "devout" Roman Catholics, "pillars of the community", etc, real fire and brimstone nutters. I was subjected to horrendous beatings for numerous reasons, eventually they didn't even need a reason (to the point where I questioned was I merely only put on this earth to be a punch bag for these cnuts?). The reason I mention this is because despite my neighbors being fully aware of the situation, nobody ever reported anything to the authorities. Nobody so much as picked up a phone when they saw a naked child running up the road and back down to get the smell of urine off his body after he wet the bed, again. Bear in mind that this was a busy road with cars passing in both directions.

If anyone was complicit in covering up abuse, it was the people that knew about it, and knew it was wrong, yet CHOSE to keep shtum, and I don't buy for a minute this nonsense about "Oh people were controlled by the Catholic Church, they were afraid", all the rest of it. How do they think a child who was being subjected to such physical and mental torture must have felt? One simple answer - they didn't, because they didn't care, because they didn't want to get involved, because they saw it as none of their business, because my parents were held in as high regard as the local priest. They had status, and status means they were untouchable.

From this thread - Catholic bashing.

Resonator75

Czarcasm wrote: »

Resonator despite what other posters are claiming here, I would welcome you to take a look back through my recent post history and see for yourself between this thread and the thread in the A&A forum, I've done everything BUT defend anyone who was complicit in the suffering that was inflicted on these women and children. If we're supposed to be calling for an independent investigation into this, then we have to leave aside our bias and examine the evidence objectively. People with a bias against the RCC will ignore everyone else involved, I mean, that's convenient when you hate the RCC, but it means the Gardaí, the media, the Health Services, the Government, the ancillary services that profited from the laundries... they all get a free pass?

What kind of an investigation is that?





I've posted my experience earlier in this thread, but Resonator it's only a mere glimpse of the physical and mental torture I was subjected to as a child -





From this thread - Catholic bashing.

NO.

I hate the Roman Catholic Church but I believe in fair and due process and will abide by the law of the land.

IF

this went to court and Bon Sec or whom ever were found to be not guilty, I would stand by that judgement.

Just because I hate established religion does not imply that I am lacking in morality,ethics or scruples. That is your base presumption.

If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that what we all think happened did not happen, in a court of law, I will die to defend that judgement.

Sorry for my bad grammer.

Jester252

Was there anymore regarding the age of the remains. I remember reading an article that suggests the grave is due to the famine.

argonaut

Jester252 wrote: »

Was there anymore regarding the age of the remains. I remember reading an article that suggests the grave is due to the famine.

I think that argument has largely died away. I mean, really, what'd they do, build a septic tank in 1852 for the express purpose of burying hundreds upon hundreds of babies?

endacl

Jester252 wrote: »

Was there anymore regarding the age of the remains. I remember reading an article that suggests the grave is due to the famine.

The septic tank as we know it today was invented in France, by a John Mouras, in or around 1860.

The potato famine occurred between 1845 and 1852.

Do you suppose Monsieur Mouras rushed an early prototype across from France, so person or persons unknown would have a place to stuff the bodies of almost 800 juvenile famine victims?

It's not a grave. It a septic tank. That statement, I'd imagine, was issued in the hope that it would be accepted on face value.

padd b1975

segaBOY wrote: »

No matter what happens a whole load of folks hanging around boards chatting about it won't do anything. Pitchforks at the ready or GTFO.

Some have e-mailed the 'Garda Press Office' for some reason.

WilyCoyote

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A waste of money was when the Irish taxpayers were taken to the cleaners over the corrupt deal between the extreme catholic right elements in the fianna fail crime family and their masters in the archbishops palace

Brokered by a cowardly smug cult member. At the expense of the taxpayer.

Can this not be revisited - considering that it was contrary to the wishes of the majority?

Nodin

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Brokered by a cowardly smug cult member. At the expense of the taxpayer.

Can this not be revisited - considering that it was contrary to the wishes of the majority?

They've tried to get more money out of them to no avail. Some of them have it buried in trust funds as well, to further complicate matters.

"Ceist is a charitable trust company set up by a number of Irish religious orders, into which ownership of the school property of those orders is intended to – and in many cases has been – transferred.
The orders are the Daughters of Charity, Presentation Sisters, Sisters of the Christian Retreat, Sisters of Mercy and the Missionaries of the Sacred Heart.
The Sisters of Mercy alone has transferred 66 school properties, worth €412m, to Ceist whose directors include Senator Ronan Mullen.
Ceist’s memorandum and articles – publicly available from the Companies Office – define its purpose as the furthering of the aims and purposes of Roman Catholic education generally, and state that its assets are to be used for that purpose.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/ceist/

sparkle_23

It's so awfully sad. I'm in Canada on a working visa and it has made some of the news sites here.

WilyCoyote

Michael Woods, if you're reading this - you must feel proud.
Likewise, Rónán Mullen of Ahasragh. Such a long way you've come!

Overheal

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You're doing pretty good here too, with your "pissy thanks" jibe at anybody with the temerity to agree with me.

Do cop on. You're the one who introduced "Thanks" into this discussion.

Overheal

sparkle_23 wrote: »

It's so awfully sad. I'm in Canada on a working visa and it has made some of the news sites here.

It's made it to my facebook feed. Some people thought it must surely be a hoax.

Reformed Character

let me preface what I am about to post by saying I find abhorrent and sickening the actions of the RCC in dealing with the range of house of horror abuses it has inflicted on so many in the past, and its abject failure to deal with those abuses, to the extent that one facilitator of child sexual abuse remains the most senior RCC clergyman on this Island.
Yesterday I attend the funeral of somebody very close to me who succumbed to cancer. It was an Roman Catholic funeral and cremation. The priest was about my own age and seldom have I seen anyone act with more kindness, humour and dignity when dealing with the suffering and anguish of others.
I left the funeral grateful that the man officiating had taken real time to find out little intimate details about woman who funeral it was, and had allowed her sense of life and sense of humour dictate the proceedings.
As I sat alone last night I began to understand why so many people seek both solace and strength through religion generally and in Ireland the RCC specifically. I did not raise the past with the priest but having listened to him and watched as he guided proceedings in a gentle and caring way I have no doubt in my mind that he is as appalled as anyone here by the actions of his predecessors.
My point? The actions of the RCC in the past were and are reprehensible, but we all need to be careful (me especially) not to let our justifiable anger at those actions blind us to the important and caring role that institution provides to the particular community it serves.

josealdo

Reformed Character wrote: »

let me preface what I am about to post by saying I find abhorrent and sickening the actions of the RCC in dealing with the range of house of horror abuses it has inflicted on so many in the past, and its abject failure to deal with those abuses, to the extent that one facilitator of child sexual abuse remains the most senior RCC clergyman on this Island.
Yesterday I attend the funeral of somebody very close to me who succumbed to cancer. It was an Roman Catholic funeral and cremation. The priest was about my own age and seldom have I seen anyone act with more kindness, humour and dignity when dealing with the suffering and anguish of others.
I left the funeral grateful that the man officiating had taken real time to find out little intimate details about woman who funeral it was, and had allowed her sense of life and sense of humour dictate the proceedings.
As I sat alone last night I began to understand why so many people seek both solace and strength through religion generally and in Ireland the RCC specifically. I did not raise the past with the priest but having listened to him and watched as he guided proceedings in a gentle and caring way I have no doubt in my mind that he is as appalled as anyone here by the actions of his predecessors.
My point? The actions of the RCC in the past were and are reprehensible, but we all need to be careful (me especially) not to let our justifiable anger at those actions blind us to the important and caring role that institution provides to the particular community it serves.

how long ago was the last body buried ?

comongethappy

Reformed Character wrote: »

My point? The actions of the RCC in the past were and are reprehensible, .

The past?

Says who?

When an organisation spends decades covering for & supporting paedophiles & abusers as well as tarnishing those brave enough to speak out one can assume the RCC has become very adept at it.

Do we know the abuse has stopped?
Or are they just better at covering their tracks?

dharma200

Reformed Character wrote: »

let me preface what I am about to post by saying I find abhorrent and sickening the actions of the RCC in dealing with the range of house of horror abuses it has inflicted on so many in the past, and its abject failure to deal with those abuses, to the extent that one facilitator of child sexual abuse remains the most senior RCC clergyman on this Island.
Yesterday I attend the funeral of somebody very close to me who succumbed to cancer. It was an Roman Catholic funeral and cremation. The priest was about my own age and seldom have I seen anyone act with more kindness, humour and dignity when dealing with the suffering and anguish of others.
I left the funeral grateful that the man officiating had taken real time to find out little intimate details about woman who funeral it was, and had allowed her sense of life and sense of humour dictate the proceedings.
As I sat alone last night I began to understand why so many people seek both solace and strength through religion generally and in Ireland the RCC specifically. I did not raise the past with the priest but having listened to him and watched as he guided proceedings in a gentle and caring way I have no doubt in my mind that he is as appalled as anyone here by the actions of his predecessors.
My point? The actions of the RCC in the past were and are reprehensible, but we all need to be careful (me especially) not to let our justifiable anger at those actions blind us to the important and caring role that institution provides to the particular community it serves.

I dont think anyone thinks there are not some good people in the catholic church. It is the hold the catholic church has on communities who do not wish that hold to exist.. ie. our school system, our health care system, our press, our legislators. I am sure there are some amazing priests, however the organisation they belong to is sod rotten to the core it cannot be mended. An organisation cannot perpetrate these atrocities over such a long period of time, yet still have power over people who do not wish that power to be exerted.
I feel if the priest was that appalled by what his very recent and in some cases still serving colleagues have done, then he would no longer be able to morally and ethically be part of the organisation, collect monies for the organisation etc etc. Even the statement from the head honchos reeks of denial, twisting words, damage limitation etc etc. The church has not come forward and adequately dealt with either the paedophile ring they have allowed to exist for years (how many priests in Tuam have been accused and tried for this - a quick google gives the sickening numbers).

I don't mean to sound harsh, and I am sorry for your loss, but saying that the priest is doing a good job has nothing to do with peoples turing attitudes against the church. It is not each and individual serving member,. but the organisation as a whole which is responsible, and which seeks to shirk the responsibility. In my mind, anyone who serves or defends the actions of the church, the beatings, the buggery, the horrific toprture of women men and children, yet still does a good mass, still collects money for the church, still does not recompense those who were tortured, is as much a part of the whole rotten problem.
The church still forces itself onto people, my children are indoctrinated at school, my health care choices are dictated by the church, the papers i read spout catholic morality slyly..... While attitudes are changing, this type of outrage, 800 dead babies in a tank originally made for human sh i t sums it all up. For those who wish to be part of th church and its pomp, that is fine. But all its influence needs to be removed from those who want the choice. Every penny collected should go to victims of its crimes, and every mass and prayer said should be towards those who have been raped, beaten and tortured, starved to death and treated like animals. EVERY prayer.

Reformed Character

comongethappy wrote: »

The past?

Says who?

When an organisation spends decades covering for & supporting paedophiles & abusers as well as tarnishing those brave enough to speak out one can assume the RCC has become very adept at it.

Do we know the abuse has stopped?
Or are they just better at covering their tracks?

dharma200 wrote: »

I dont think anyone thinks there are not some good people in the catholic church. It is the hold the catholic church has on communities who do not wish that hold to exist.. ie. our school system, our health care system, our press, our legislators. I am sure there are some amazing priests, however the organisation they belong to is sod rotten to the core it cannot be mended. An organisation cannot perpetrate these atrocities over such a long period of time, yet still have power over people who do not wish that power to be exerted.
I feel if the priest was that appalled by what his very recent and in some cases still serving colleagues have done, then he would no longer be able to morally and ethically be part of the organisation, collect monies for the organisation etc etc. Even the statement from the head honchos reeks of denial, twisting words, damage limitation etc etc. The church has not come forward and adequately dealt with either the paedophile ring they have allowed to exist for years (how many priests in Tuam have been accused and tried for this - a quick google gives the sickening numbers).

I don't mean to sound harsh, and I am sorry for your loss, but saying that the priest is doing a good job has nothing to do with peoples turing attitudes against the church. It is not each and individual serving member,. but the organisation as a whole which is responsible, and which seeks to shirk the responsibility. In my mind, anyone who serves or defends the actions of the church, the beatings, the buggery, the horrific toprture of women men and children, yet still does a good mass, still collects money for the church, still does not recompense those who were tortured, is as much a part of the whole rotten problem.
The church still forces itself onto people, my children are indoctrinated at school, my health care choices are dictated by the church, the papers i read spout catholic morality slyly..... While attitudes are changing, this type of outrage, 800 dead babies in a tank originally made for human sh i t sums it all up. For those who wish to be part of th church and its pomp, that is fine. But all its influence needs to be removed from those who want the choice. Every penny collected should go to victims of its crimes, and every mass and prayer said should be towards those who have been raped, beaten and tortured, starved to death and treated like animals. EVERY prayer.

I think you were both missing my point.

Grayson

comongethappy wrote: »

The past?

Says who?

When an organisation spends decades covering for & supporting paedophiles & abusers as well as tarnishing those brave enough to speak out one can assume the RCC has become very adept at it.

Do we know the abuse has stopped?
Or are they just better at covering their tracks?

It's only in the last 20 years that the abuse has come to light. The cover-up wasn't done by the whole church but neither was it just a few people. There will still be those in the church who participated in the abuses and the cover ups over the years.

In this particular case there will still be people alive who organised those homes, who worked in the homes and who sent people to those homes. There will also be people who are the parents or siblings of children who were taken or died in those homes.

dharma200

I dont. I understand the point of the least sentence of your post. To me though, that is fine, along as the churches influence is removed format hose who do not wish it toe exert any influence at all on their lives.

old_aussie

Czarcasm wrote: »

I meant the RCC as a whole Kiwi. .

The All Blacks arc up

Reformed Character

dharma200 wrote: »

I dont. I understand the point of the least sentence of your post. To me though, that is fine, along as the churches influence is removed format hose who do not wish it toe exert any influence at all on their lives.

I don't disagree with you.

Dan_Solo

Overheal wrote: »

Do cop on. You're the one who introduced "Thanks" into this discussion.

Is this mod hat on?

Cabaal

segaBOY wrote: »

No matter what happens a whole load of folks hanging around boards chatting about it won't do anything. Pitchforks at the ready or GTFO.

I don't know about that
the Petition thats doing the rounds and is being reported in the media started on boards.ie, the atheist forum to be exact.

Why it didn't start off in the christian forum is beyond me, surely they above everyone else want the true details behind the past abuse of their own faith.

Dan_Solo

Cabaal wrote: »

I don't know about that
the Petition thats doing the rounds and is being reported in the media started on boards.ie, the atheist forum to be exact.

Certainly it's a good time to be doing this sort of thing after a fairly tumultuous elections. TDs must be sh1tting their pants about the next GE and will be more likely to pay attention...

Cabaal wrote: »

Why it didn't start off in the christian forum is beyond me, surely they above everyone else want the true details behind the past abuse of their own faith.

But we're being told by Catholics here that, very conveniently, none of this has anything at all to do with the church or faith.

dharma200

dharma200 wrote: »

A link to the synopsis of the research essay that opened this horrific can of worms for the Catholic Church https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1382568855335119&id=1381096678815670
Very interesting reading......

Can't read this now, but did last night. These are comments directly from the local historian that has studied at length the records available.

Surely they deserve some more credit / reading. Their research is direct, this thread in its entirety is borne out of commentary on the research.

Just trying to flag this up as something worth reading if you can.

Geuze

A letter to the Irish Times today suggests that infant mortality rates of up to 90% were reported in some foundling homes in the USA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/mother-and-baby-home-deaths-1.1822008


Overcrowding, cross-infection and gastroenteritis were the main contributing factors.

bumper234

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Is this mod hat on?

Oh the irony :rolleyes:

same ol sh1te

Geuze wrote: »

A letter to the Irish Times today suggests that infant mortality rates of up to 90% were reported in some foundling homes in the USA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/mother-and-baby-home-deaths-1.1822008


Overcrowding, cross-infection and gastroenteritis were the main contributing factors.

What about the 100 that died of nourishment?

Dan_Solo

bumper234 wrote: »

Oh the irony :rolleyes:

No getting the irony.

bumper234

Dan_Solo wrote: »

No getting the irony.

You accusing someone of having a mod hat on by back seat modding = irony.