Boards Fantasy Football 2014

JaMarcusHustle

gufc21 wrote: »

That's brilliant jemarcus I was wondering how something like that would work. Wat about the promotion and relegation though?

The teams who get relegated would simply be replaced by the teams who get promoted and the schedule would continue to work as normal.

JaMarcusHustle

Raoul wrote: »

Great idea but would the gms be up for all that extra work?

It's not all that much extra work. The spreadsheet does most of the work. Setting the fixtures is a 10 minute job max at the start of the year and doesn't have to be worried about again.

Guffy

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

The teams who get relegated would simply be replaced by the teams who get promoted and the schedule would continue to work as normal.

Ya was thinking that just wondered ob order but its new game every year so doesn't matter.

. Would have no problem spending the twenty or so minutes that would take to set up. Do it during a pre season game sure

JaMarcusHustle

I just think the rivalry it would create would be so much better. Those divisional matches become huge and form a big part of your season, so you get that whole “can’t lose this game as it’s a divisional game” or “well I lost, but at least it was a non-divisional opponent who beat me rather than a division rival…” mindset that comes with the NFL.

Raoul

I thought you can set it up on the site to allow you to set the first 3 and the last 3 games to be against people in your division?

That is the way it is in my 12 team league.

D3PO

good idea but it cannot work in the way suggested.

with promotion relegation its possible multiple teams from one conference go down, also how do you treat the teams that come down from the division above ?

its a great idea but I think it needs a bit more thought / critiquing and a few tweaks to make it a runner.

FWIW if we were going with something like this were GMs were manually setting the schedule, id propose that we equally have GMs set the draft order. Anyway lots to think about and discus during the off season

Guffy

D3PO wrote: »

good idea but it cannot work in the way suggested.

with promotion relegation its possible multiple teams from one conference go down, also how do you treat the teams that come down from the division above ?

its a great idea but I think it needs a bit more thought / critiquing and a few tweaks to make it a runner.

FWIW if we were going with something like this were GMs were manually setting the schedule, id propose that we equally have GMs set the draft order. Anyway lots to think about and discus during the off season

how would draft order be decided, its not a keeper league.

I don't think it matters where e the teams going up or down are placed as again it a redraft league so everyone is a scratch at start of every year.

JaMarcusHustle

How many teams get relegated? I can't remember, but if it's 3 for example...

Just swap the team who finished last in the Premier League with the team who finished 3rd in Div 1. Swap 2nd last in Prep with 2nd in Div 1, and swap 3rd last in Prem with 1st in Div 1.

D3PO

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

How many teams get relegated? I can't remember, but if it's 3 for example...

Just swap the team who finished last in the Premier League with the team who finished 3rd in Div 1. Swap 2nd last in Prep with 2nd in Div 1, and swap 3rd last in Prem with 1st in Div 1.

its 4 that go down.

what if 3 from the same division go down. How would you excpect to work the play the other 3 teams that finished in the same position as you work ?

That would only work if it was the bottom side in every division that went down but that's unlikey to ever be the case.

Guffy

D3PO wrote: »

its 4 that go down.

what if 3 from the same division go down. How would you excpect to work the play the other 3 teams that finished in the same position as you work ?

That would only work if it was the bottom side in every division that went down but that's unlikey to ever be the case.

But as its a new league every year it doesn't really matter. It would be very rare that 3 would go down from the same division as well

Dohnny Jepp

Although it might be unfair, we could promote the top team of every division and relegate the bottom team of every division each year. There would be a continuity to each division.

Love the idea Jamarcus, I'd vote in favour of what you suggested

D3PO

defo an idea worth fleshing out on for a vote in the off season

Spongey1975

I dont know what options are available for GMs when setting schedules but i do like the option of fixing Wks 1,2,3 & 11,12,13 as division games but then randomising the rest of the weeks (if it is an option on NFL.com).

The problem i foresee is that we have 10 divisions and whilst the GMs in the higher leagues are more experienced and dedicated, the GMs in the lower leagues are new players and are usually reluctant volunteers to GM a league so to ask them to set a schedule based on the spreadsheet JaMarcus prepared might be a bit much.

Also in the lower leagues there is a lot more promotion/relegation with 8/9/10 teams sometimes moving up because of players not coming back. Will be very hard to track who should be in which slot in the spreadsheet

Overall though i do like the idea of playing division opponents twice

fisgon

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Fantasy football has never really been fair. its more about luck. Its luck that someone ends up in a division thats weak and sends a team to the playoffs with a losing record. I admit i'd be frustrated to lose out to a team with a weaker record but thats the way the NFL works and i'm very happy for fantasy to run the same way. Im also frustrated if i get the second highest fantasy score one week and lose the matchup but thats the luck of the draw

It is true that FF is not always fair, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try and make it more just and to reduce the role that luck plays in it. Clearly the current divisional system is not fair, nor does it make any sense whatsoever.

Jamarcus' suggestion may work, though it also may be a bit unwieldy. I would favour a simple sixteen team division, or else two eight teamers, as long as the schedule insured that you played everyone in your division at least once. This would be a workable compromise, I think.

There is nothing wrong with trying to make FF more about skill and less about luck.

fisgon

Also, FF is not the NFL, and we shouldn't be trying to emulate them. It has to be what works for our leagues, not for the multi-billion dollar enterprise that is the NFL.

Deco99

fisgon wrote: »

Also, FF is not the NFL, and we shouldn't be trying to emulate them. It has to be what works for our leagues, not for the multi-billion dollar enterprise that is the NFL.

So instead of following the NFL follow the Premiership model?? The league table doesnt lie kinda of thing? Not a good idea. Here's why:

Say you have 16 teams and top 4 qualify (assuming there is still a playoffs) after 5 weeks a noticable gap opens up and the team in 16th is thinking I'm done here whats the point in trying anymore, so they put little or no effort in for rest of year, from week 6 on more people fall into that category and by the end only maybe 7 teams have anything to play for from week 11 lets say on.

At least with Divisions there is the chance of something to play for even if you get a bad start. I started playing fantasy nfl cause i hate the way fantasy premier league is over for half the teams after about ten games cause they wont get back into it.

Its not about skill, its about fun. Skill means the best team wins, wheres the fun in that. Skill has a role of giving you an edge but fun is the possibility of that edge being wiped away.

fisgon

Deco99 wrote: »

So instead of following the NFL follow the Premiership model?? The league table doesnt lie kinda of thing? Not a good idea. Here's why:

Its not about skill, its about fun. Skill means the best team wins, wheres the fun in that. Skill has a role of giving you an edge but fun is the possibility of that edge being wiped away.

When did I mention the Premiership? I gave two possibilities, one of which involved two eight team divisions. What has that got to do with the premiership?

When you are talking about keeping people interested, there is no difference between my suggestions and the current situation. There is promotion and relegation to play for regardless, the people at the bottom should be continuing to play to avoid dropping down a division in whatever format we choose. If you start 1-4 in a four team division, you are just as likely to give up as if you were in an eight team division where three teams could make the playoffs.

And if FF isn't at least partly about skill or good decisions or judgement, then why play? Why draft? Why not just allocate players randomly to teams and let the season play out that way?

Realt Dearg Sec

fisgon wrote: »

And if FF isn't at least partly about skill or good decisions or judgement, then why play? Why draft? Why not just allocate players randomly to teams and let the season play out that way?

Because that wouldn't be fun. Obviously. That was the other side of his point.

D3PO

fisgon wrote: »

It is true that FF is not always fair, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try and make it more just and to reduce the role that luck plays in it. Clearly the current divisional system is not fair, nor does it make any sense whatsoever.
.

why do you think the divisional system is not fair ?

If you cant top a 4 team division then no one really has any business complaining to be frank.

Keeps things interesting , makes some games more pivotal than others and as somebody who also plays in a single 10 team league and also plays in a 2 division 12 team league I can tell you that the 4 divisional system is in my view the best of the lot.

And if you are good enough recordwise you will still make the playoffs as a wildcard. I just need to look at my division on boards this year where 3 of the teams in the playoff came from my division to see that it works as well if not better than anything proposed elsewhere in this thread.

BizzyC

After more thought, I'm not in favour of JaMarcus' schedule at all.

Having people scheduled based on previous years results will handicap people who are good at FF and fail to get promoted and make it easier for people who aren't that good by giving them an easier schedule.

So say I come 5th in my league, next year I'll have a tougher schedule to the promoted person from the league below.
Even if I have a better team and more consistent scores each week, by virtue of a fixed schedule they'll be more likely to be promoted than I will due to easier fixtures, and doomed to the same fate the next year.

I think FF needs randomisation to stay fair, but I agree that the current division
setup needs a rethink.

Setting a few games against division rivals and randomising the rest should be sufficient to revamp the system without throwing the random nature of FF out the window.

Also, this hard coding of schedule will really mess with the draft.
Do the newly promoted teams get better schedules AND better draft picks, does that not create a lop-sided league?
If not, do the existing teams get better picks making it tougher for promoted teams?

fisgon

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Because that wouldn't be fun. Obviously. That was the other side of his point.

Part of the fun is that it is a challenge, it is a test of your knowledge about the NFL and its players. And his point was, if you read it, "it's not about skill". Do you agree with that? If it is all about luck, then I repeat, why play?

If there is little attempt to reward making good decisions that result in scoring more points, then it becomes more about luck, and so less of a challenge, and yes, less fun. That is my point.

The current division system doesn't work, IMO, for two reasons. One, the divisions are meaningless, because the schedules are randomised, you may not even play everyone in your division. How can winning your division be a qualification for making the playoffs if you haven't even played everyone in your division?

Two, teams get in on 6-7, 7-6, while others are kept out on with better records. Again, I ask the question, what's wrong with trying to make FF more weighted towards rewarding good decisions and good judgement, rather than just blind luck?

BizzyC

Just thinking, what if we made it WK 1,2,3,11,12,13 against division teams, random inbetween and fix the division members.

So if you dont get promoted or relegated, you stay in your division with the same teams next year and divisions get new teams based on promotions/relegations.

For example; in league 2
1 team from Div 1 wins the league, so they get the best of the relegated teams from league 1 next season.
2 teams from Div 2 get relegated in 13th & 14th, they get no.1 & no.2 from league 3 next season.

fisgon

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Did you fail to make the playoffs this year by any chance?

Seriously? Is that your only argument? Because if it is, it is a pathetic one. In fact, it is irrelevant to my opinion if I made the playoffs or not, my opinion is the same either way.

For what it is worth, I made the playoffs. Doesn´t mean that the current system works. Seriously, if you are going make an argument, then make an argument, rather than throwing out irrelevant comments that only point out the weakness of your position.

Realt Dearg Sec

fisgon wrote: »

Seriously? Is that your only argument?

I'm not having an argument. I'm having the craic. You're having a rant and sound like you could be having a stroke. Relax FFS it's just fantasy football, personally I don't care what way they structure it, I'm going to just play and fail to make the playoffs like I do every year. But I probably won't age as fast as you.

D3PO

fisgon wrote: »

Part of the fun is that it is a challenge, it is a test of your knowledge about the NFL and its players. And his point was, if you read it, "it's not about skill". Do you agree with that? If it is all about luck, then I repeat, why play?

If there is little attempt to reward making good decisions that result in scoring more points, then it becomes more about luck, and so less of a challenge, and yes, less fun. That is my point.

The current division system doesn't work, IMO, for two reasons. One, the divisions are meaningless, because the schedules are randomised, you may not even play everyone in your division. How can winning your division be a qualification for making the playoffs if you haven't even played everyone in your division?

Two, teams get in on 6-7, 7-6, while others are kept out on with better records. Again, I ask the question, what's wrong with trying to make FF more weighted towards rewarding good decisions and good judgement, rather than just blind luck?

your argument is completely and utterly flawed. Its not fair a team with a worse record gets in over a team with a better one ..

you "fix" this and then the next complaint is its not fair I scored more points over the 13 weeks than somebody who made it and has a better record than me .....

fantasy football has an element of luck to it weather it be a star going to IR or getting the second highest score in a week and losing, but its dwarfed by the ability to influence your own situation by using your good judgement, and good decisions.

This is my 5th year in the boards leagues i.e in from the start. Ive never had a losing record despite having back luck like losing a 1st and 2nd rounder to IR etc, if the setup was so weighted towards luck then that would be unlikely and honestly year in year out you see a quarom of the same guys who have made the playoffs.

That's not a coincidence.

eagle eye

Four divisions is way better imo. Its more like the NFL and I like things to be more like the real thing.

Same with the waiver wire, I'd like to see it changed to 'worst gets first' because it keeps things competitive.

If somebody has a good draft and two of his top players go on IR after two weeks of the season he shouldn't have to suffer the entire season because of it. If you leave the waiver wire as is then he doesn't have the opportunity to get competitive again for quite a while. If he loses ground on the rest of the field in a 'worst gets first' situation then he gets the opportunity to improve his team and still make a run at the playoffs.

All fantasy football is about is a bit of fun and taking on your fellow boardsies. I don't think we want to make it so if somebody isn't just as knowleadgable as others that he will suffer big time and never make the playoffs.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

. I don't think we want to make it so if somebody isn't just as knowleadgable as others that he will suffer big time and never make the playoffs.

:eek: I totally disagree. Yes its fun, but hey for a lot of people winning is fun ! if you don't want to reward knowledge then why bother drafting just randomize everything ... doesn't sound like fun to me.

there is a reason there is a division setup with promotion and relegation. Its designed to get the more knowledgeable and active guys into the same leagues to try and balance things out.

Dodge

I don't want to see anything changed as I don't see the need to. It has worked for years and we get more players each year.

Whatever happens, luck will play a part. We have monster teams steam roll through the regular season and lose the final. You can't take luck out of it.

The key thing for me is to keep it simple and let as many people as possible have an interest for as long as possible. I think the current format does that

I didn't make the play offs this year but once again, thanks to Spongey and all the mods for their hard work!

fisgon

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'm not having an argument. I'm having the craic. You're having a rant and sound like you could be having a stroke. Relax FFS it's just fantasy football, personally I don't care what way they structure it, I'm going to just play and fail to make the playoffs like I do every year. But I probably won't age as fast as you.

If you don't care, then why are you posting here? For someone who is so indifferent, as you claim to be, why are you even commenting?

And the point is, we are actually discussing how to organize the leagues. People are simply giving their opinions about this, as I was. When someone makes a point that you don't like, you make some stupid implication and then get personal, rather than actually making a useful point.

Johnny_Fontane

D3PO wrote: »

fantasy football has an element of luck to it weather it be a star going to IR or getting the second highest score in a week and losing, but its dwarfed by the ability to influence your own situation by using your good judgement, and good decisions.

This is my 5th year in the boards leagues i.e in from the start. Ive never had a losing record despite having back luck like losing a 1st and 2nd rounder to IR etc, if the setup was so weighted towards luck then that would be unlikely and honestly year in year out you see a quarom of the same guys who have made the playoffs.

That's not a coincidence.

Thats an astonishing post. You must be quite the player. Quite the surprise to see that you've actually never won anything though.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057275543

Interestingly, since the league went to say 5 leagues in 2011, only 1 player has one division more than once.