Random Running Questions

RayCun

There are different kinds of hill repeats. You can do very short repeats with longer recoveries, eg 20 seconds up, 40 down, or two minutes up and one minute jog back down - you'll need a long hill for that one

statss

Gels for a half marathon - are they really needed? Have taken 1 at the start line and 1 at half way in the past, but not sure if they are actually required if your running for less than two hours?

Krusty_Clown

I could never understand why anyone would take a gel before a race. I know the gel manufacturers recommend it (they would, wouldn't they?!), but given that they are advertised as a convenient mechanism for replacing lost energy, and before a race you won't have lost significant amounts of energy (or need the convenience) taking one just seems wasteful (and could potentially upset the stomach). I generally carry a single gel for a half marathon and take it at the 10 mile mark. I'm not convinced that they provide any significant benefit but haven't had an opportunity where I've been willing to put the placebo effect to the test. They do seem to give me a boost for the final miles, but I suspect that it's all in my head.

And yes, I realize that taking one at the 10 mile mark means that I probably won't realize the benefits until around 5 minutes after my race is finished, but at least it means I have a nice cool-down.

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

And yes, I realize that taking one at the 10 mile mark means that I probably won't realize the benefits until around 5 minutes after my race is finished, but at least it means I have a nice cool-down.

I do the same, and in fact I take a gel at mile 7 of a 10-mile race.

Likewise, I realise that the energy boost is probably non-existent, but it does give me a psychological boost which is just as good in my view.

Krusty_Clown

So... Is an outdoor running track completely flat? Or is it sloped on the bends or straights? Visited a track (a proper one, not a cinder track) and it seemed to be slightly sloping outwards, but I suspect it was an optical illusion.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

So... Is an outdoor running track completely flat? Or is it sloped on the bends or straights? Visited a track (a proper one, not a cinder track) and it seemed to be slightly sloping outwards, but I suspect it was an optical illusion.

http://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=77c027b0-46b8-405d-9ffd-889fa28e3f6e.pdf&urlslug=IAAF%20Track%20and%20Field%20Facilities%20Manual%202008%20Edition%20-%20Chapters%201-3

The kerb of the 400m Standard Track must be laid horizontally throughout. The
lateral inclination of the track shall not exceed 1.0% inwards and the overall inclinationin the running direction shall not exceed 0.1% downwards. It is recommended that the design lateral inclination be slightly less than 1% to ensure that, because of construction inaccuracies, the 1% inclination is not exceeded. Local variations in inclinations are permitted on parts of the track.

menoscemo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I could never understand why anyone would take a gel before a race. I know the gel manufacturers recommend it (they would, wouldn't they?!), but given that they are advertised as a convenient mechanism for replacing lost energy,

I would take one on the startline of a marathon, literally pop it as I start moving. My thinking is that I am getting in 'free energy'. I know gels are quick release energy but I doubt it would be in your system immediately. Therefore say at the 1 mile mark I have burned 100kcal running but now have another 100kcal in my system to replace that glycogen lost in running the first mile...My thinking might be totally flawed but there you go.

For a Half marathon I have never taken a gel and don't think I ever will. You've got more than enough stored energy in the body to last 13 miles. Besides at Half Marathon intensity I don't think my stomach would handle a gel too well.

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

http://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=77c027b0-46b8-405d-9ffd-889fa28e3f6e.pdf&urlslug=IAAF%20Track%20and%20Field%20Facilities%20Manual%202008%20Edition%20-%20Chapters%201-3

So.... That's a 'yes' then?

Krusty_Clown

menoscemo wrote: »

For a Half marathon I have never taken a gel and don't think I ever will. You've got more than enough stored energy in the body to last 13 miles. Besides at Half Marathon intensity I don't think my stomach would handle a gel too well.

Shouldn't you be fine for the first 13 miles of your marathon then? Seems like flawed logic. It sounds like you're trying to pre-top-up your carb levels before you lose them, but isn't that what carb-loading is all about? And by carb-loading, I mean maintaining the same level of carb consumption, while reducing the level of activity.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

So.... That's a 'yes' then?

If the track has been constructed to IAAF specifications then it should be completely flat, no slope out on bends or straights, that's my understanding of the doc.

Krusty_Clown

... But it's within the IAAF specifications to have a slope of up to 1%, so it's possible.. Was just googling, and came upon this monstrosity. Would love to see a 400m race on it, where four lanes merge into two.

Clearlier

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Shouldn't you be fine for the first 13 miles of your marathon then? Seems like flawed logic. It sounds like you're trying to pre-top-up your carb levels before you lose them, but isn't that what carb-loading is all about? And by carb-loading, I mean maintaining the same level of carb consumption, while reducing the level of activity.

I think that the answer would be that if your ability to absorb carbs is exceeded by the rate at which you use them then you should start absorbing them as soon as you possibly can. Of course, the ability to use and absorb carbs are affected by multiple factors.

If you can store about two hours worth of carbs in your body then those near the pointy end of a race will need to take on relatively little and can easily wait a few miles before taking anything. If you're going to be out there for 4 or 5 hours though you're going to need to take on a lot more and so you should probably start taking some on as soon as you can given that you absorb less than you spend.

menoscemo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Shouldn't you be fine for the first 13 miles of your marathon then? Seems like flawed logic. It sounds like you're trying to pre-top-up your carb levels before you lose them, but isn't that what carb-loading is all about? And by carb-loading, I mean maintaining the same level of carb consumption, while reducing the level of activity.

No my logic is that it's not the same at all.
'Topping up' carb levels as you use them is not necessary in a half Marathon because I won't be 'empty' at the end. Therefore I can top the levels back up after the race.
If I consume several gels in the first half of a marathon by the time I get to halfway my gas tank is still almost full therefore I have plenty of gas already to get me to the end and won't need to take anymore in the second half. If I hadn't taken any gels in the first half, my tank would already be almost empty and in urgent use of fuel (exaggerating here for effect). Given that my stomach is more likely to protest in the second half, I prefer to take on energy in the first half of a marathon.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

... But it's within the IAAF specifications to have a slope of up to 1%, so it's possible.. Was just googling, and came upon this monstrosity. Would love to see a 400m race on it, where four lanes merge into two.

that's fantastic! :pac:
what are those dirt areas in the middle?

Krusty_Clown

menoscemo wrote: »

Given that my stomach is more likely to protest in the second half, I prefer to take on energy in the first half of a marathon.

That's a personal preference though - It's not advice. The thing is, before the start of a marathon, you wont have used any calories, so you're just topping up an already full system. Like trying to overfill a car with petrol, there's a risk that some might spill out.

menoscemo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That's a personal preference though - It's not advice. The thing is, before the start of a marathon, you wont have used any calories, so you're just topping up an already full system. Like trying to overfill a car with petrol, there's a risk that some might spill out.

As I said, I wouldn't take them before the race, just once I start moving. Maybe the energy required to move that first mile is taken directly from the first gel, not from my 'Tank' of Glycogen. So there is no risk of overflowing.

Yes it is my personal preference to take them in the first half. At 20 miles the last think my stomach wants is a gel. My point is (my opinion) it doesn't matter when you take them. Energy is energy. Most people find it more dfficult to take them bnear the end of a race, so why not take them nearer the start?

Still to go back to the original question, unless you had no breakfast or skipped dinner the night before (i.e. you are carrying a half empty tank) then gels are not necessary in a half IMO.

jebuz

menoscemo wrote: »

it doesn't matter when you take them. Energy is energy

I'm not so sure about that. Energy gels aren't a one-to-one replacement. The glycogen must first be digested, make its way through the intestinal wall and then be absorbed by the muscles, this process takes time. However that 'perk' you feel shortly after ingesting is probably more of a mental awakening as the glucose in your liver is used directly by the brain. Taking a gel 5 miles before the end of a marathon does little physiologically for your legs but can give you that mental push you desperately need to get you over that line.

Of course the gel companies won't mention any of this, they want you to take gels before, every 20-30 mins during, in the shower afterwards, the next morning...etc :pac:

Itziger

statss wrote: »

Gels for a half marathon - are they really needed? Have taken 1 at the start line and 1 at half way in the past, but not sure if they are actually required if your running for less than two hours?

I guess they might be handy if you're very slow - I'm not trying to be funny here- as then you're out running for a lot longer than the speedsters. (Work colleague took a couple the other day in his second half and though he barely missed his 2 hour goal, he said he needed it/them and would take again.)

In my last two Half M's I did the following: 1 Gel Before =1.24* and Nothing=1.22.3x. That certainly suggests the gel ain't doing much for me in the Half.

As for the 'mental boost' idea, I can see how that might work alright so wouldn't categorically count them out.

* Just remembered I also took a swig or two of flat coke at km 16, just before the uphill section.

davedanon

RayCun wrote: »

that's fantastic! :pac:
what are those dirt areas in the middle?

Monster truck racing?

Laois_Man

Serious question - but I'm genuinely curious

Do people find that doing "THE DEED" within a certain timeframe before a race or hard session adversely affects performance levels??

davedanon

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about it affecting things, although if it was the night before a marathon I might tell the other half to get lost if the subject, er, came up. Now, and at the risk of upsetting our more sensitive posters, an all-night romp with a couple of blonde twins would be a completely different matter. But who would care about a stupid race in that situation anyway?

ultraman1

davedanon wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about it affecting things, although if it was the night before a marathon I might tell the other half to get lost if the subject, er, came up. Now, and at the risk of upsetting our more sensitive posters, an all-night romp with a couple of blonde twins would be a completely different matter. But who would care about a stupid race in that situation anyway?

Take it Wen u can get it....

Ososlo

Laois_Man wrote: »

Serious question - but I'm genuinely curious

Do people find that doing "THE DEED" within a certain timeframe before a race or hard session adversely affects performance levels??

We'll be discussing this in detail over on the Novices' forum in a few weeks:D but here's something to keep you going:

'Sex? I'll bet I've got your attention now. Should you or shouldn't you the night before? Will it drain away strength needed for the race? The fear of sex is deeply rooted in athletic tradition. Ancient Greek athletes were prohibited from engaging in sex and many modern athletes from around the world have been discouraged to enjoy sex the night before games. But "the ol' professor, " New York Yankee manager Casey Stengel, summed it up best: "It ain't the sex that wrecks these guys, it's staying up all night looking for it." Want a note from your doctor? The American Medical Association states, "Sexual relations the night before competition do not hinder athlete performance provided that sex is a regular part of the athlete's life." Some researchers even believe sex the night before a race may be advised since it promotes relaxation."
The Competitive Runner's Handbook
Glover & Glover

barryoneill50

Ososlo wrote: »

We'll be discussing this in detail over on the Novices' forum in a few weeks:D but here's something to keep you going:

'Sex? I'll bet I've got your attention now. Should you or shouldn't you the night before? Will it drain away strength needed for the race? The fear of sex is deeply rooted in athletic tradition. Ancient Greek athletes were prohibited from engaging in sex and many modern athletes from around the world have been discouraged to enjoy sex the night before games. But "the ol' professor, " New York Yankee manager Casey Stengel, summed it up best: "It ain't the sex that wrecks these guys, it's staying up all night looking for it." Want a note from your doctor? The American Medical Association states, "Sexual relations the night before competition do not hinder athlete performance provided that sex is a regular part of the athlete's life." Some researchers even believe sex the night before a race may be advised since it promotes relaxation."
The Competitive Runner's Handbook
Glover & Glover

I'll be printing this so....

Ososlo

Are runners more obsessed about their sport than people you know who participate in other sports? Personally I think they are. Maybe golfers come close? But do they have to do it every day like most runners do? Around these parts anyhow!

RayCun

Ososlo wrote: »

Are runners more obsessed about dedicated to their sport than people you know who participate in other sports?

yes, of course:)

Billy Mills

Ososlo wrote: »

Are runners more obsessed about their sport than people you know who participate in other sports? Personally I think they are. Maybe golfers come close? But do they have to do it every day like most runners do? Around these parts anyhow!

Running tends to attract complete mentalers/ freaks/ ocd heads/ misfits/ socially awkward weirdoes ect etc. This forum would be an excellent example of that phenomenon.

ecoli

Ososlo wrote: »

Are runners more obsessed about their sport than people you know who participate in other sports? Personally I think they are. Maybe golfers come close? But do they have to do it every day like most runners do? Around these parts anyhow!

I would say yes. Look at the average "hobby jogger" (mean this as in anyone who doesn't do it for a living) they become amateur -

- Coaches (we all question why we do things)

- Nutritionists (we all aim to improve diet to increase performance)

- Physio's (Injuries are part and parcel of it, even before I studied it I could tell you about ITB Syndrome, Pelvic Tilt, Stress fractures, posterior tibialis syndrome and many more just from experience)

- Personal Trainers (how many of us research exercises to fix imbalances)

- Biomechanist (how many look at their form?)

- Scientist (what other sport could you talk about aerobic and anaerobic energy pathways and people have a general idea what you are on about)

Ososlo

Billy Mills wrote: »

Running tends to attract complete mentalers/ freaks/ ocd heads/ misfits/ socially awkward weirdoes ect etc. This forum would be an excellent example of that phenomenon.

Ha ha I think you might have a point there Billy! most I've met would fit into one of said categories;)
If the average man thinks about sex 19 times a day, then how many times a day does the average boards runner think about running? 100s I'd imagine!

ecoli

Ososlo wrote: »

Ha ha I think you might have a point there Billy! most I've met would fit into one of said categories;)
If the average man thinks about sex 19 times a day, then how many times a day does the average boards runner think about running? 100s I'd imagine!

Perfectly fine as long as you are working in the right HR zones for the prescribed training for that day