Random Running Questions

dublin runner

I feel like a fat b$stard now after reading all that!

Ososlo

dublin runner wrote: »

I feel like a fat b$stard now after reading all that!

www.eatingdisordershelpguide.com/manorexia.html

dublin runner

Ososlo wrote: »

www.eatingdisordershelpguide.com/manorexia.html

Haha! Luckily, I am not the sensitive type

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''I saw xxx running there earlier, he looks just awful. He's gaunt, pale and looks like he could do with a good feed.''

Response:

''Yeah, he's in some shape alright.''

---

drquirky

I'm with you DR all these 5'10 lads at 64 kg make me feel really overweight at 63/64 kg and 5'5. Guarantee my pythons are bigger though


I agree w/ KC as well though- I can get away with a sub 17 5k carrying a little extra weight- as distances go up though I find going in at a light racing weight crucial

Ososlo

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

ecoli

Ososlo wrote: »

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

Funny enough though you will probably find they weigh more.

People obsess about weight with no context. Lean muscle weighs more than fat, a fact which should not be forgotten

This year I am probably about 1/4 stone heavier yet I look a hell of alot leaner due to nutrition and strength work (but mostly nutrition)

nolinejudge

ecoli wrote: »

Funny enough though you will probably find they weigh more.

People obsess about weight with no context. Lean muscle weighs more than fat, a fact which should not be forgotten

This year I am probably about 1/4 stone heavier yet I look a hell of alot leaner due to nutrition and strength work (but mostly nutrition)

I like beer to much for weight to be my first challenge. Only once I reach peak physical fitness will I focus on weight loss:)

dublin runner

Ososlo wrote: »

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

Depends. I don't worry too much about my weight rather by body fat percentage.

Itziger

Ososlo wrote: »

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

I've forgotten what the equivalent stone weight is at this stage; haven't counted in stones for the last 20 years but even without converting I believe 8 stone 9 is light, depending a little on height of course, and a littler on gender.

Are you joking about losing a stone??

Do I need to reset my sarcasm monitor?

(Just spotted the 5ft 6 there)

Finnt

dublin runner wrote: »

Depends. I don't worry too much about my weight rather by body fat percentage.

How do you get body fat measured?

Itziger

Folks, a question re tune-up session before race. I have a Half Marathon on Sunday and I would normally do the last little speedy effort 4 or 5 days out as you see in most plans. You know the type, warm up + 3x1k or 1mile at 10k pace and cool down. This time round however I had an 'intestinal issue' on Tuesday and Wednesday. I'm absolutely fine again, so the question (eventually) is the following: Is Thursday too late to do the tune-up session?

Ososlo

Itziger wrote: »

I've forgotten what the equivalent stone weight is at this stage; haven't counted in stones for the last 20 years but even without converting I believe 8 stone 9 is light, depending a little on height of course, and a littler on gender.

Are you joking about losing a stone??

Do I need to reset my sarcasm monitor?

(Just spotted the 5ft 6 there)

121 lbs - 54.9kg. Female.
Tongue half in cheek but I do wonder all the same... I see 2 female elite runners now and again running in my area and I feel like a heifer compared to them. Their bodies are like my 10 year old niece's. They would be at least a stone lighter than me but probably lighter. Very muscly arms though but slight at the same time. It's skin, bone and muscle. A different species!

ecoli

Finnt wrote: »

How do you get body fat measured?

Skin fold calipers, bod pod's or if you have a couple of hundred euro laying around a Dexa scan is the most accurate

Cabaal

Ah feck, feel awful heavy now 190lbs / 6 foot,
I've toned and built muscle alot more this year but the damn scales doesn't move more the 2-3lbs either way.

Itziger

Ososlo wrote: »

121 lbs - 54.9kg. Female.
Tongue half in cheek but I do wonder all the same... I see 2 female elite runners now and again running in my area and I feel like a heifer compared to them. Their bodies are like my 10 year old niece's. They would be at least a stone lighter than me but probably lighter. Very muscly arms though but slight at the same time. It's skin, bone and muscle. A different species!

Ah, female, ok. And those elites, sure anyone would look 'fat' next to them. I'll always remember the closest I got to a world level elite athlete was in New York about 8 years ago. 'Twas the day before the marathon and one lad was evidently doing his 30 minute loosener routine. Heading into Central Park right by the finish of the race. Don't know who he was I must admit, but I was amazed at his legs especially. Looked like my arms, I'm not kidding.

That was before I got back into running so my arms were a bit heavier than now;)

Ososlo

Itziger wrote: »

Ah, female, ok.

oh so you're sayin' I'm fat:mad:

Itziger

Ososlo wrote: »

oh so you're sayin' I'm fat:mad:

No, but I was worried you might be a guy!

TFBubendorfer

ecoli wrote: »

Funny enough though you will probably find they weigh more.

People obsess about weight with no context. Lean muscle weighs more than fat, a fact which should not be forgotten

This year I am probably about 1/4 stone heavier yet I look a hell of alot leaner due to nutrition and strength work (but mostly nutrition)

Same here. I weigh 3-4 pounds more than a couple of years ago but my waist is slimmer (and my old trousers are falling down if I don't wear a belt). Weight is what a lot of people obsess about but they are missing the bigger picture.

I'm 178cm/5ft10 and 66kg/10st6. Despite what I said in the previous paragraph I still wonder if I would run faster if I were a couple of pounds lighter, though. :rolleyes:

Clearlier

Itziger wrote: »

Folks, a question re tune-up session before race. I have a Half Marathon on Sunday and I would normally do the last little speedy effort 4 or 5 days out as you see in most plans. You know the type, warm up + 3x1k or 1mile at 10k pace and cool down. This time round however I had an 'intestinal issue' on Tuesday and Wednesday. I'm absolutely fine again, so the question (eventually) is the following: Is Thursday too late to do the tune-up session?

It's Friday now so a little late for you but in case anyone else is reading it wouldn't have been a good idea to do the session on Thursday. You won't get any physiological benefits and you may still be tired from it come Sunday. If you were concerned about leg speed some strides would have been the best option. I'd be looking to leave about 5 days between last session and a race.

davedanon

Who knew the jokes were for real all this time????

Itziger

Clearlier wrote: »

It's Friday now so a little late for you but in case anyone else is reading it wouldn't have been a good idea to do the session on Thursday. You won't get any physiological benefits and you may still be tired from it come Sunday. If you were concerned about leg speed some strides would have been the best option. I'd be looking to leave about 5 days between last session and a race.

I'll report back on Sunday evening (unless things really go tits up). Fact is, I did the little session. It felt ok, even if the 1k reps were too fast - by quite a bit. I've changed the Garmin to miles recently as I've started a JD marathon plan so when I glance down at the pace midway through a rep like that I haven't much of a clue what the pace in mile language means yet. I feel absolutely fine today. Will do a little 20 minute leg loosener tomorrow and give the Half a wallop on Sunday.

Clearlier

Itziger wrote: »

I'll report back on Sunday evening (unless things really go tits up). Fact is, I did the little session. It felt ok, even if the 1k reps were too fast - by quite a bit. I've changed the Garmin to miles recently as I've started a JD marathon plan so when I glance down at the pace midway through a rep like that I haven't much of a clue what the pace in mile language means yet. I feel absolutely fine today. Will do a little 20 minute leg loosener tomorrow and give the Half a wallop on Sunday.

Good luck. If it was just a mini-session then you should be well recovered.

T runner

conavitzky wrote: »

I was just thinking what is the optimum training mileage for distances ranging from 5k-half marathon. I have been training consistently enough for a year now at around 70-80k/week and have started seeing good returns. There is obviously a bunch of folks on here who are doing serious mileage (KC, Stazza, T-runner being examples) I often wondered where is the break point. Where is the point of diminishing returns from the experience of runners on here? At what point should you introduce double days (or treble days-Stazza ya lunatic take a bow!) At what point does the risk of injury outweigh the possible gains to be made? It is obviously different for everyone. Would be interesting to see what it generally is across the spectrum on Boards.
Another question I have is:
Why do/dont do a marathon - what are the pros and cons? (I have been running a few years now and have only run one half last year 1hr 29mins and swore after that I would never run a marathon. Instead concentrating on getting better at 5-10k. I now have this itch to do one and am unsure what to do. I would love to try one but think the mileage would break me leaving me unable to do any running!)

Ill throw my 2 cents in.

From my experience:

High mileage helps greatly with aerobic conditioning For most of us here. That's because this area has huge potential for improvement.

Conditioning puts you in whatever league you're going to be in. The quality stuff decides how high you'll climb in this range.

The build mileage slowly rule is sacrosanct when breaking new ground.
"Build mileage slowly or youll get injured"...true!
Avoid injury like the plague....

The flipside is just as relevant yet often understated:

"If you do build mileage very slowly but very steadily....its the key to reaching higher than you thought possible.

Level of importance:
1 stay injury free for consistant training
2. grow mileage very slowly assuming keeping 1. in mind.

I saw a great improvement with high mileage for a marathon in 2012...I got a glimpse...but I was lucky with injury then I feel.

To build high mileage: after a season....establish a template of training that keeps in touch with all the intensities. Should include core and strength work, stretching. (I do vinyasa yoga for this). Keep a focus on the basics of healthy nutrition. Use recovery drinks to aid with this if necessary.

Forget about mileage completely until you establish this well rounded sustainable training regime.

When its well bedded and comfortable...slowly..slolwly inflate it.

E.g for next years XC season, in order to increase mileage you may have to cut down on the quality, not drop it, just cut it enough to be able to increase mileage.

The slower you increase the mileage the better and fitter youll get.

So within a season you want to reach a sustainable mileage, after which youll be able to slightly up the proportion of quality.

If a starting point was 70k, an increase to 90k would work....
It doesn't sound like much, but 5-6 months of consistant injury free training at a higher level to what youre used to will return massive results.

S0...Whatever youre level or target.

-Establish the well rounded training template that touches all bases.
-slowly...so slowly...blow up the winning balloon
-Before you reach a physical limit, stop the increase and consolidate...now looking to the quality for your event...reducing mileage as necessary.
-next season.....more injury free progress.

You must stop comfortable before this limit for the season. High mileage is only worth it if injury free.


Hadd/Lydiard style of aerobic only is a poor recipe for self coached runners like many of us.

If I had those guys here...id headlock run them in to my physio to answerquestions....

Finnt

Great post T runner, how do you mean the "Hadd/Lydiard style of aerobic only is a poor recipe for self coached runners like many of us."?

conavitzky

Thanks T. Some great nuggets of info there. Im out of action for three weeks with my now yearly achilles problems, so will definitely have to incorporate some strengthening / flexibility work into my program. Cycling on turbo trainer is the substitute for the next three weeks-yipee! (Sarcastic)
I see your training log is quiet. Are you still aiming for frankfurt? No doubt warrior's run is on your agenda.

ultraman1

Finnt wrote: »

How do you get body fat measured?

Stand in front of mirror ...clench and shake....if it wobbles its fat..

ecoli

Great post.

With regards to the HADD/Lydiard approach I would say this is more a question of periodization or not. Neither Hadd's nor Lydiards approach could be classified as aerobic only.

In terms of Hadd many people derive most of their information on this based around the base building Phase I stage, this is an aerobic preparatory stage but trust me the Phase II stuff would be more in lines with the high end intensity work normally associated with the likes of Lydiards anaerobic phase. Discussion within this phase contains the likes of strength work and other aspects which you have alluded to but people tend to just focus on the accessible and the actually running aspect (could be said about many training programs to be fair)

I do however agree with you with regards many of us following them, If you look at the backgrounds of the athletes both coaches were dealing with (Lydiard coming off the back of coaches with a heavy interval based background like Igloi and Stampf, while Walsh was coming from US based high school systems of high intensity low mileage) it made sense for them to spend time building their athletes weakness's to prepare them to be able to train.

Most athletes here are returning to the sport after years off and come from low level aerobic training to begin with so the benefits would not be to the same extent as for most you are still ignoring the weaknesses (biomechanics, leg turnover, muscle imbalances etc)

The more long terms approaches can be useful in developing an athlete long term for high level competition but for the majority of us Joe Soaps the benefits of this long term approach come at too much of a cost given we are approaching it from a hobby perspective we want find it very hard to stick at these long term approaches without seeing some sort of rewards along the way.

You approach however is quite a good one and I think alot of people would make big gains from this sort of template.

Itziger

Clearlier wrote: »

It's Friday now so a little late for you but in case anyone else is reading it wouldn't have been a good idea to do the session on Thursday. You won't get any physiological benefits and you may still be tired from it come Sunday. If you were concerned about leg speed some strides would have been the best option. I'd be looking to leave about 5 days between last session and a race.

Clearlier, that little speedier session didn't do any harm, any harm at all. 1.22.31 for me which is a 90 second pb. I wouldn't recommend doing the tune up workout that late but as I'd missed the Tuesday and Wednesday and wondered about speed.... If nothing else, it set my mind at ease.

Finnt

ultraman1 wrote: »

Stand in front of mirror ...clench and shake....if it wobbles its fat..

Wouldn't chance it, the jingling might be hypnotic!

paddybarry

Question on hill repeats
How many should one do in a session, and ideally what distance should the hill be?

I have never done these, but feel they may help my endurance for shorter distances.

Recent races would be 17.50 for Parkrun and 29.36 for Terenure 5 mile.
Thanks.