Random Running Questions

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320752#Comment_121320752

For me a breakthrough in my fitness came from an increase in volume but I think more importantly an increase in frequency. At the time I was averaging about 70 km per week, but it was running six days a week that gave me the boost I feel.

wersal gummage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320787#Comment_121320787

Used to be able to edit and answer your questions,

Ok

No particular goal.. Just running for fitness really as in middle age. I tend to repeatedly run the garmin half marathon programme on my watch. When I did the couch to 5k thing I remember nearly vomiting when I ran 5k in 25 mins after maybe 2 months of starting, then after a while 5k in 25 mins became a fairly easy pace, and when I ran 5k in under 20 it was similar, complete effort.. And I remember thinking it would be nice to be able to run 5k under 20 without killing myself.... So anyway, no real goals but would like to just be a bit faster /better fitness.

Current pb, without ever having trained for a 5k in particular or doing much speed work is 19.45.

41 for 10k,

1.37 for half,

Just under 6 mins for the mile (never had any natural pace as a kid in school, playing other sports etc). If I ran a mile now as fast as I could I wouldn't go under 6, at a guess mahbe 6.15, and equally wouldn't run 5k under 20 now, mahbe 21.

I don't pay much heed to the garmin vo2 max other than as a sort of baseline for consistency, but it was consistently high 50s for about 2 years and has slowly been dropping to now at low 50s over last year. Can notice it in my runs, where a 5.30 per min km would have been 120 hr, it's now 133 etc... So my fitness is going backwards!

Currently running 3x easy per week and one faster, last week faster was tempo, next week it's speed repeats.

I do understand its possible to train smarter etc, but more interested to hear if people have experience of seeing improvements just by hitting an increased volume?

Family member was doing 170km a week for marathon once (which seems extreme) , so I know my 45km is pretty low.

wersal gummage

Thanks Lazare, I missed your reply earlier. I've been reading a bit online and suspect I need to run even slower and increase volume and days alright. I find the really slow running very difficult, it feels like I'm about to stop, but looking at the different suggested zones etc, my current fitness has my heart rate higher than it should be for my slow runs. I'm only doing 4 days a week for the moment but previously did 5 with no issues so can definitely try take it up to 6, slowly. I cycle as well and do a bit of free weights so something has to give i suppose. Thanks

DangerMouse27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121321784#Comment_121321784

Your 'only' doing 4. That's good going. With the cycling and free weights thrown in.

And you have a high level of fitness with some lovely times in the bank.

Give yourself some credit. Some people would be killing for that base.

Definitely could be an idea to tune up that mile. I'm sure your doing 400m repeats etc but maybe focus on heart rate a bit more during those intervals of 400/800/1000. You might not get as many done, but you want them to be all quality efforts.

Even get some absolute raw-speed sessions in, with just doing drills.

You can mix and match, speed endurance-Tempo-Endurance-Strength(Hills) as long as your not working the same energy systems back to back, you should be fine. Sand Dunes could be a nice little mixer-upper.

It does seem in vogue now to spread the mileage out over the week but I'd still be a big fan of that long run and seeing at using it as a recovery session. Running how you feel. Taking it absolutely handy but logging up a nice distance too.

darrenheaphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320752#Comment_121320752

I was similar about 2 years ago, couldn't ever quite get past the 2km annual year. Some weeks had higher volume but then something would get in the way. For what it's worth I mostly then focused on base building, mostly because I had signed up to Kerry Way Ultra and needed volume, and because I was increasing in volume it was hard to build speed/strength more frequently anyway.

Getting specific - if you know what the recurring injury is then you probably need to incorporate preventive work into your routing (glute/priformis versus quads etc etc)

The only other thing I can think of is consider getting a coach, I only did it this year but it means that he/she can adapt your week based on your state. That way, even if for example, you have a niggle, or limited time, they can still tweak your plan to always be building on what you've got

wersal gummage

Thanks Darren

Yes I have the injury issue in hand I think... Unrelated to running, but the running can trigger it, and I've been to physio and have a load of stuff I build into my strength routine, mostly single led squats /lunges etc. Seems to be working. Basically I need to keep strong core.

Did you find a change at any particular volume?

I think I'll spend winter trying to slowly work up to about 70km a week over 6 days and see how i feel after that, starting working in some more speed stuff etc then.

Runner2023

Two random questions

I cycle in and out of work in the mornings. A very gentle 15 mins each way and definitely in zone 2. I'm curious, is this giving much benefit in terms of building base fitness?

Also, is your "easy pace" the same, regardless of what your training for? I was doing the novice marathon plan before I got injured and was very conscious of keeping things slow on easy runs, generally between 6:00-6:45/km depending on how i felt on the day (I ran the Fingal 10k in 48:54 for reference).

My physio is telling me that it's too slow and I'm "not getting any benefit" from it. He suggested running "easy" at 5:30/5:40 which would probably be marathon pace for me and almost certainly outside of Zone 2 no matter which method I use to calculate it. When I told him this didn't really make sense he said he means"easy" for 5k training, not easy for a marathon. I always assumed your easy pace was based off level of fitness - your heart rate / effort / being able to hold a conversation etc and so would essentially be the same regardless of what you're training for. Curious if this is the wrong way to be looking at it.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331552#Comment_121331552

Marathon pace is very much not easy pace regardless of what your target distance is. Well, so long as it's above 800m, below that you're getting into sprinting which is a different ballgame.

I'd seriously reconsider whether you're getting any benefit from that physio.

event

Is your physio a coach as well or a runner?

Thelonious Monk

Doing my first half marathon on Sunday, it's a pretty hilly route too. Is it ok usually to wear headphones in these races? I'm on the fence whether to wear or not. What do you guys eat on the morning of race?

event

Depends on the race, some ban them. What race is it?

I'd just have muesli and yoghurt, but I have that every day so nothing different

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331741#Comment_121331741

I usually just eat a couple of croissants for breakfast on race day. Quick and easy. Plus, you can eat them as you are on the way to the race.

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331552#Comment_121331552

Easy pace is easy pace, it's not dependent on what you are training for. What does change in a 5k plan is the paces and intensity of your sessions.

The bike is great for recovery and will add a little to your aerobic base.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331798#Comment_121331798

It's Behobia to San Sebastian. Yeah I'll probably just have some oats and fruit I reckon and lots of caffeine.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331741#Comment_121331741

Don't wear headphones. They're usually banned, and even if they're not, they make you more dangerous to others and yourself.

What do you normally eat before a long run? It's a bit late to be saying this now, but a significant part of training is figuring out what works for you.

Runner2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331704#Comment_121331704

I suspect he may be a runner but I'm fairly confident he's not a coach.

I have no interest in his general thoughts on training, I just want him to get me fit / durable enough to deal with the mileage.

I wanted to check I was correct first, mind 😅

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331837#Comment_121331837

I guess I don't really think about what I eat, just as usual but make sure not to run too soon after eating.

I'll leave the headphones so, it will just be weird running without music/podcasts as I never do this, maybe the crowd and new surroundings will keep me going.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331856#Comment_121331856

Yeah thats fair enough. Dont mind too much what he is saying about paces or times, he's probably going off his own experiences

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331937#Comment_121331937

It definitely will. The crowds are sights are what make it. And maybe chatting to other runners.

Im like you though, wear headphones on all my running but for races I leave them, so dont sweat it

Butterbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331856#Comment_121331856

You are correct. Easy is easy, different for everybody, and can vary day to day for the individual, depending on sleep, rest, stress and other factors. No one can tell you what's easy for you.

FinnC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331552#Comment_121331552

Cycling is absolutely brilliant for running fitness. I'm a bit biased as a former(but hoping to get back into it) triathlete,but I've always ran quicker times when I've incorporated cross training, in the form of cycling for me, into my training plans.

Thelonious Monk

Very proud, only took up jogging when lockdown happened pushing 40. It's a fantastic race should you ever find yourself down here.

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364333#Comment_121364333

Looks class, nice pace and all,

yerwanthere123

If I run mostly on softer surfaces, does that make it harder to run road races as the surface is so different?

After almost exclusively running on roads for years I've recently switched most of my mileage to a softer, gravel path in a town park. It's much easier on the legs, I can run for longer and feel better the next day, but just wondering if it might actually make it harder to run on roads. I ran a 10 mile yesterday and blew up very hard after only about four miles. Perhaps my training was wrong, perhaps I was too ambitious in my goals, but just wondering if the surface makes a difference.

rovers_runner

Question on back to back marathons, two weeks apart.

Lots of material on how to manage the weeks between, but how to people train into the first one of the two?

Was considering treating first one as like a peak training week long run without a taper, then the pull back for the long run in the middle week and go again the following weekend.

Marty Bird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427443#Comment_121427443

All depends on your goal time, if you want to PB the 2nd one personally I’d use the first one like a training session go 80% of your PB time similar to what your planning.

I raced two full Ironmans back to back within 3 weeks of each other with my goal to PB in the 2nd one. Didn’t follow the plan raced the first one hard and the wheels fell off the 2nd one. Just my two cents… best of luck with both.

MisterJinx

Question for anyone who trains by HR. Do you find that in Winter you have an elevated HR until you are fully warmed up, say maybe 15 or 20 mins into a run. Just my last few runs in the colder weather the HR has been quite high for the first part and then will drop back quite a bit if I take a short break. Not sure if it's my body working hard to warm me up or a marathon hangover

yerwanthere123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388382#Comment_121388382

Anyone have any ideas? 😳

Marty Bird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427932#Comment_121427932

For me my HR drops a little in the colder weather I noticed it more on the more intense runs.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388382#Comment_121388382

Hmm. I dont think it would make much difference if I am honest. Its not like you are moving to trails or anything so dont think it would have as big an impact as that. One thing I have noticed is that physically its easier to run on roads than pavements. I have picked up way less niggles and knocks since I moved out of a town and got off the pavements.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427932#Comment_121427932

Havent noticed myself. The cold here isnt that cold really, not like its dropping to sub zero temps consistently.