I've been reading Jack Daniels running formula book recently and on his 5 to 10km training plan phase II. He has back to back Q sessions. Maybe I've missed it but what is the purpose of this? And would it not be higher risk? Most plans or coaches for distance athletes will have maybe two easy days between sessions. If someone could help explain what Daniels is trying to achieve here? I'd appreciate it, although this forum is a ghost town since the downgrade
Jack Daniels sessions are great. I find the 5k-10k probably the best training plan out there. The schedule is a guideline so you can switch them around during the week. The idea behind the 2 is you be a bit tired after the first day, but be sure the body is up to this and don't get injured. I am currently doing some of phase 2 as can't make the club at the moment
Looking for running routes in Tipperary, please. Near ish to Cashel, if possible.
How often do people get rub downs when running 6 times a week??
In Cashel it self.
Starting arount the fire station head out the old Dublin Road past the new motorway roundabout and head towards the Horse and Jockey, turn left after the stud farm on the left, (there is a sign for Acorn Lodge to the right, continue down that road to Boherlahan, turn left brings you back to Cashel, (approximately 10 mile) .
There is also Rockwell college on the Cahir road, approximately 1k loop on grass.
Dumdum wood, locally known as "the Duck pond" have flat 2 loops of approximately 2k and 3k, on hard packed "mill waste"
A lot of runners use the woods in Dundrum, and is an excellent place to run
Yep, should really factor this in once a month but I just opt for the foam roller every time
Not sure if this is the right thread to post on. I'm looking for pros and cons of getting a personal coach.
I'm a member of a running club but with family and work commitments at the moment, if I make it to 1 session a month I'm doing well. We get a weekly training schedule from the club coach but it's obviously generic as it's a large group.
I have plenty of plans from a variety of running books, some which have worked very well for me in the past.
The lack of races these last 18 months has really affected my motivation in completing any plans. While my mileage has been good and even increased, the quality I feel has nose-dived, and my times are slower over given distances. I feel I'm going backwards.
So back on topic; I feel a coach might get me out of my slump. 2 questions.
What are peoples experience of having a coach?
How did you pick/find a coach that works for you?
I'm very tempted to quit running. I've only been running 6/7 months but I've seen very little improvement, if any in fact, in my speed and it's so frustrating going out to run when you're not improving.
I don't have a designed plan. I just go out and attack the pavement 7 days per week and run between 4-8km. My pace is around 7-7:30km. Top end pace would be 5:45-6:10km/min but I'm dying at that pace. If it helps, I'm 183cm and 95kg.
It's like hitting my head off a wall every time I go out. I've tried changing routes but that doesn't help either. No disrespect to anyone but I see men a lot older and who would be carrying a good bit of weight passing me by and I just feel like stopping and going home. It does my confidence no good at all.
You've been making almost the exact same post to this thread for 6 months or so, and have basically ignored all the advice you received. What do you expect to be different this time?
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"I just go out and attack the pavement" Oh, dear. Now if 280 there is right and you've been making this complaint for the last six months and still insist on "attacking the pavement" each run, well what do you expect? He, or she, also says you've ignored all the advice you received. In which case, yeah, you probably do need to give up!
Omega, your posts are very frustrating to read. As pointed out above you have received plenty of advice over the last few months, and clearly haven't even considered it an option.
How can you expect different results if you keep repeating the same mistake?
Maybe reread the advice you have received in the past, give it a go and if in 6 months you see no progress then you can consider what you want to do re continuing or not.
If the sole purpose of running for you is to see improvement in your speed, then you're never going to be happy and you're running for the wrong reasons. Are you actually enjoying the runs? Do you feel good and satisfied after a run or do you just get annoyed because your "speed" wasn't right? What is the right speed you think you should be running? Remember, as humans we are shockingly bad at estimating our own ability so you really have no reference point there.
As others have said you've been given plenty of advice but I'll just suggest something before you pack it in, which by the way I think you will regret. To discover running and make it a part of your everyday life is a gift. Be wary of going too far into the realm of obsession where it just becomes torture.
Stop measuring. You're clearly obsessed with pace and numbers. This is utterly pointless and tormenting for somebody who's only after starting running because you have nothing to compare to other than your peers. 6 months is not a long time. My advice is to just go out with a stopwatch (if it's a garmin, turn off the pace and just show the time) and run for a planned time period. 40 mins, 50 mins, an hour, whatever. Allow your run to be 4.6km or 9.8km. The distance is what it is. Run by feel and listen to your body, empty your mind of pace and just feel the run and relax. Make it feel like you could chat away the whole time and try even take your mind off the run at times. Running with somebody can really help but maybe that's not your cup of tea. Gradually start introducing efforts where you are in control but working hard. This could be a slightly harder run once a week, or a few (1-2 minute) efforts in the middle of an easy run.
Who cares if older men are passing you out? Again, you're running for the wrong reasons if that upsets you. They've most likely been training much longer than you. I've been running regularly for 9 years and for the first few months of running I was too naive to even care about pace or improvement and I was lucky we didn't have Strava or anything like that. I didn't go out and "attack" runs. I just ran. The pace was whatever it was. It was an important period for my body to adjust to running regularly and of course it eventually adapted and I improved significantly over the next few years as I joined a club and introduced structure. You're building a base. Consider it like a large rock you're chipping away at. Little or nothing comes away as you chip away each day. But then one day a chunk suddenly comes off and you move to a new level. This is what will happen if you stick with it and relax. Persistence will always pay off. Finally, join a club.
I just go out and attack the pavement 7 days per week and run between 4-8km
I'm the last person to be offering running advice - but I'll throw a few things out there nonetheless and see if it helps.
You can't be attacking the pavement with every run. You'll do nothing but make yourself miserable. I did that years ago and ended up giving up.
By going fast for every run you're working on a false economy that was always going to end up in frustration.
I fooled myself for years thinking I was going slow but I wasn't. I was always looking at the watch and cursing myself for not being able to go as fast as the day before, the week before, the year before. I look back now and think why??? It got me no where and I was just adding another stress to myself for what? I turned what started out as an enjoyable hobby into a chore and who needs an extra chore in their lives!
It was only going slow this year, giving myself room to breathe that gave me space to properly add strides and hills which have been a game changer. I feel stronger, composed and more confident than ever. Whether it translates into better race times I don't know, but it makes every run so enjoyable and I'm so excited to get out.
So, instead of getting impatient with what your body can't do, slow down a bit and enjoy your runs. If you feel like you're pushing, reel it back and relax. Instead of looking at other runners and their size or age, look at what they're doing and do a Terminator style run down of yourself. Not how fast they're going but do they look relaxed? Do you feel as relaxed as they look? If not slow down. Are they lifting their legs and holding themselves up? Are you shuffling and slouched? If so, straighten up and get your legs working right. You can bet that they're using how they're moving to be more economical and more beneficial. You'll get stronger and feel so good after every run that you'll look back and think you were mad for even thinking of giving it up.
Again, I stress, I'm the D student down the back of the class around these parts, but all I know is, when I run I feel terrific. On easy days I throw my runners on, pop my earphones in and I even wear shorts these days 😱 and I feel like I've unlocked a little bit of heaven where everything melts away and it's just me and me legs feeling great. There is a corner on my loop that I used to dread because it leads into a hill, now when I turn the corner and head for the hill I feel like I'm in the Olympics!!! 😂. The fact that I'm no faster than a snail is of no concern to me anymore. Why would I be ruining the buzz for myself?
Anyhow take all that with a pinch of salt, but the way I see it is there is a whole world of enjoyment there if you want it. You just gotta access it.
Brilliant post, there's something for everybody in there! You reminded me of my first marathon when I felt really strong in the latter miles, I felt like Sonia O'Sullivan flying along for those miles! Of course she would have had 2 marathons run in the time I was running and I'm sure I was much closer to a shuffle than any form of flying but that didn't really matter a jot, it was that feeling - it was pretty special.
Running should be a joy Omega. Of course everyone struggles with motivation at times and we'd all love to be faster - no matter how much we've already improved, much wants more. But these are small parts of a much bigger picture, try to see the bigger picture. You've been given great advice, don't waste it.
I'd recommend a garmin training plan or others similar to it.
Like you I used to just go out and run about 3/4 times a week, 5k time was 30 minutes and stayed at that for a year or so. Started the garmin 5k plan over 15 weeks and got down to 24 minutes. But alot of it is run longer for slower and then short sprints thrown in.
As others have said just going running as fast as you can until you burn out isn't doing you any good.
I would like to echo what has already been said here & many many times before. It's extremely frustrating reading a post like this when you have been previously offered really good advice before & clearly ignored it.
To be a runner I believe the most important thing you need is enjoyment. You will not enjoy every run, will hate some in fact but if you are enjoying most then you are a runner. I would not be the runner I am today without this forum. For God's sake listen to the advice you have been given & you will see improvements, if you are just not bothered to listen then yes maybe you should give it up.
Running should not just be about paces, times etc that sh!t will drive you nuts. Running should be an escape, I would even go as far as saying a happy place. I honestly don't know where I would be without running right now, having just lost my da some days ago it hurts to breathe, even just talking to people but yet I can put the headphones in put on his playlist & run, that's what running should be.
I genuinely think at this stage you should really know whether you truly want to be a runner or not.
I was reminded of the conversation above by this simple graph.
Even if (especially if) you're training correctly you should expect to see a performance decline (the stress part) before the training adaptions kick in resulting in performance improvements.
Quoting from the article this came from (by Jason Koop)...
"To start out with, we all need to understand that fundamentally, training makes your performance deteriorate in the short term (days and weeks) before you get better in the long term (weeks and months). You have to train hard enough such that your body says ‘dang, this is hard. I better build up some more physiological stuff if I want to keep doing this and not die’. Without a difficult enough training stress and then the requisite recovery, you won’t improve. You have to have both, not simply one or the other.
In this sense, training can look like a good stock market chart with ‘improvement’ on the Y axis and time on the X axis. The general trend over long periods of time will be upwards, but it is certainly not trending up every single week.
The take home message here is that you can’t set PRs every week. If you are, congratulations! You are either new to the sport and/or your training is too easy and will stagnate at some point. Even if you have a moderate amount of training background, you should fully expect your performance in some way to get moderately worse before you apply rest and you see further improvements."
Just looking to do a quick straw poll -
how long (in hours) before a 9am HM or FM do you eat breakfast?
I suffer from runners stitch about 6-8m into race efforts, but v rare in training. I can work it out after 1-2m and then try to get back on track. A personal trainer thinks my stomach has shut down after 6-8m, diverting blood to the muscles and therefore I need to be eating earlier, 3-4hrs (porridge and banana, for me), to ensure my stomach is empty.
I struggle when running on anywhere near a full stomach. I'd do most of my eating the day before and then a light breakfast 2.5 to 3 hrs before a race.
If I'd a 9am marathon, I'd try to have breakfast (porridge with bananas and blueberries) and a full 500ml cafetiere by 6am at the latest. Maybe an excessive amount of coffee but makes sure everything is cleared out in good time before the start of the race.
When do you start fuelling during your race, maybe you need to start taking on fuel sooner to combat this. Just something to consider.
True - I wouldn’t usually take a gel for the first 10m of a race or long fast Sunday morning run, and I take it over the course of a mile or so. I’d usually have a stitch afterwards of some sort.
for Antrim on Sunday (a test race for the Belfast FM), I’m going to try eating earlier, I usually eat 1.5-2hr before racing, and also test drinking less in the 2hrs before gun time. I’m usually well hydrated in the week leading to a race.
doing tonnes of abdominal wall stretches too. It’s a plague on my races for years and on Sunday I’ve a good shout at a 1:30 HM.
would you guys normally be hungry at the start line, or is that the point?
By trial and error I have figured out that I should eat 2 hours before race start. I can get away with 90 minutes but that's cutting it fine. It's definitely better to eat too early than too late, but under no circumstances should you be hungry at the start line. That's a recipe for disaster.
Also, I always used to drink a sports drink in the last hour before the start but have recently read that you shouldn't do that as you might be spiking your blood sugar level before the start and already heading for a sugar crash when you start running. Haven't had the chance to revisit that in practice, though, due the obvious lack of racing this year.
Agreed, it’s a lot of trial and error.
The test for Antrim on Sunday is:
40g porridge & banana, 2hr before
sipping water until 45min before
do the first 3m 5-10sec above goal pace
One thing you could try if all else is failing is drinking a Maurten 160 or 320 drink before the race. There is no need for breakfast as the drink provides all the carbs you'll need. I can't really stomach breakfast early in the morning so would drink a 320 if I had a long session or long race in the morning - works for me
A quick update, - no stitch for the first time ever, and a sub 1:30 pb!
i ate 2.5hr before gun time, and drank nothing for 1.5hr beforehand. I was well hydrated in the days leading up and first thing in the morning.
during the race I drank zero and sipped a large 70g hydro gel from mile 7-10
great local support out, and the 1:30 pacer was spot on - If you’re reading this, thank you very much!
Got back into running after 3 years off. I was enjoying it until yesterday. Felt a pain in the back of my lower right leg on the achilles. Hmmmm, must complete today's run said me so ran 5.6 miles on it and had to stop(5.30km pace).
Can't walk since. How long does this type of injury take to heal?
Yesterday's brought August running total's to 60k and another 439km's walking in work this month.
So no wonder it's fecked
The fastest way out of it is to see a physio and have it assessed. Resting tendons rarely has the affect of fixing an injury so if you just take the time off when you go back to running it may reappear.
how old are your trainers?