Random Running Questions

Treviso

I started running in Oct18 after years playing soccer. My goal is DCM this year, with also running the Cork half marathon in June.

I find the speed and hill work quite easy, but need to work on my leg endurance over long distances. Question is should I still include speed and hill work in my plan or could I just do tempo/progression runs for my midweek sessions to see the most improvement?

shotgunmcos

Treviso wrote: »

I find the speed and hill work quite easy....?

Treviso

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Suppose what I meant was I can hit my targets a lot easier than the tempo/prog runs - sorry for the use of easy!!

28064212

Treviso wrote: »

I started running in Oct18 after years playing soccer. My goal is DCM this year, with also running the Cork half marathon in June.

I find the speed and hill work quite easy, but need to work on my leg endurance over long distances. Question is should I still include speed and hill work in my plan or could I just do tempo/progression runs for my midweek sessions to see the most improvement?

If you find speed and hill work easy, you're not running them hard/fast enough.

Increased mileage will (by far) give you the best return. Put a way higher priority on that than any speed work. And I'd put a higher priority on it than tempo/progression runs as well. At least 80% of your running should be slow

Treviso

28064212 wrote: »

If you find speed and hill work easy, you're not running them hard/fast enough.

Increased mileage will (by far) give you the best return. Put a way higher priority on that than any speed work. And I'd put a higher priority on it than tempo/progression runs as well. At least 80% of your running should be slow

Thanks for the response

I've been using the running calculator to determine my training times from a recent 10 mile race. Again, it's not that they are easy - just the tempo/progress runs are more difficult. Its where I feel I need more improvement on

I'm at a stage of running 4 times a week now (20-25miles pw), with 2 easy/recovery, 1 LSR and 1 session. was wondering if I should vary the midweek session or not.

Down South

djemba djemba wrote: »

I am off to Dubai for a week. Has anyone ran over there? How easy is it to run around? Staying near to Port Rashid, so any tips would be great. Plan usually when I am away is to run early in the day.

Yes there's a number of rubberised running paths throughout the city, with one long one running along the seafront in the city

El CabaIIo

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Fast twitch runners will often find speedwork easy, well easier than someone who is endurance based and will find more endurance based stuff harder. You see it all the time with soccer players who switch to running. There's a guy who joined our club about a year back who ran 4:40 for the mile after a couple of months but couldn't break 40 for 10 much longer, when he was doing 5 or 10k reps, 4 minute k's is a dawdle for him with the recoveries as his speed gets him through it handily enough, take out the recoveries and it was a different ball game because his endurance is weak compared to his speed. They also have to be trained differently to slow twictch runners as they react better to different types of training.

You'll see the same thing with most newer people to running as well, say their 10k time is 50 minutes and they need to do 8 minute mile reps in training, often they are physically able to do those reps at 7:30 or lower pace as they have more speed than endurance because they have never trained their endurance before and speed is a bit more naturally inbuilt so they are able to do that. Thje more your endurance gets built up, the harder it becomes to run those reps above goal pace.

I used to have a habit of blasting the first rep in training and first few miles in a race in a race and my old coach from years ago would always chastise me to slow down but simultaneously say that it was a good sign as that meant I had the speed to go much faster than I was, my endurance would just need to improve. In other words, speed wouldn't be the limiting factor for a while yet.

OP, I'd keep speedwork in but in the form of short hill sprints or accelarations

Hill sprints would be 6-8 x 8 -10 seconds with 3 minute recoveries

Accelarations would be 6x150m with the 150 broke into 3 phases of 50m

50m: accelarate up slowly
50m: sprint
50m stride out relaxed

Do either one of them ne week and a progression run the other week where you start out slow and build evenly into the run finishing at tempo pace.

Add some mileage or extra easy runs to the week when you start to feel comfortable with what you are doing. The amount of mileage you are doing will play a big factor in how succesful you will be in the marathon.

Bluesquare

Thanks all

I guess I’ll just have to figure it out . I’ve never exceeded 30 miles for half training but my times don’t improve that much either . I suspect my problems are more in the mind than the mileage!!!

Bluesquare

One more question type comment thing :

I used to train off miles , then swapped to kms ( if you can’t beat them join them ) - when discussing running I use them interchangeably.

Now when racing or trying to pace myself I’ve been using kms - but I just can’t get it right .

I’m thinking for 1/2 marathon and marathon maybe miles would be better as they rounder and fatter and easier to compute . My brain sees 5:10 and thinks ok that’s approx anything Bewteen 5:00 and 5:20.

This post probably makes no sense ! But what do others do for longer races and pacing !!! I try to run by feel but fast and slow currently all I can gauge !!!

El CabaIIo

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Fast twitch runners will often find speedwork easy, well easier than someone who is endurance based and will find more endurance based stuff harder. You see it all the time with soccer players who switch to running. There's a guy who joined our club about a year back who ran 4:40 for the mile after a couple of months but couldn't break 40 for 10 much longer, when he was doing 5 or 10k reps, 4 minute k's is a dawdle for him with the recoveries as his speed gets him through it handily enough, take out the recoveries and it was a different ball game because his endurance is weak compared to his speed. They also have to be trained differently to slow twictch runners as they react better to different types of training.

You'll see the same thing with most newer people to running as well, say their 10k time is 50 minutes and they need to do 8 minute mile reps in training, often they are physically able to do those reps at 7:30 or lower pace as they have more speed than endurance because they have never trained their endurance before and speed is a bit more naturally inbuilt so they are able to do that. Thje more your endurance gets built up, the harder it becomes to run those reps above goal pace.

I used to have a habit of blasting the first rep in training and first few miles in a race in a race and my old coach from years ago would always chastise me to slow down but simultaneously say that it was a good sign as that meant I had the speed to go much faster than I was, my endurance would just need to improve. In other words, speed wouldn't be the limiting factor for a while yet.

OP, I'd keep speedwork in but in the form of short hill sprints or accelarations

Hill sprints would be 6-8 x 8 -10 seconds with 3 minute recoveries

Accelarations would be 6x150m with the 150 broke into 3 phases of 50m

50m: accelarate up slowly
50m: sprint
50m stride out relaxed

Do either one of them ne week and a progression run the other week where you start out slow and build evenly into the run finishing at tempo pace.

Add some mileage or extra easy runs to the week when you start to feel comfortable with what you are doing. The amount of mileage you are doing will play a big factor in how succesful you will be in the marathon.

Just to add to the first paragraph as this is probably a perfect example of the difference between more fast twitch and more slow twitch as dna_leri summed up about myself and Adrian.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057612401

The ongoing 5k joke here sums it pretty well between people who like the 5k and the people who are afraid of their life of it.

skyblue46

Bluesquare wrote: »

One more question type comment thing :

I used to train off miles , then swapped to kms ( if you can’t beat them join them ) - when discussing running I use them interchangeably.

Now when racing or trying to pace myself I’ve been using kms - but I just can’t get it right .

I’m thinking for 1/2 marathon and marathon maybe miles would be better as they rounder and fatter and easier to compute . My brain sees 5:10 and thinks ok that’s approx anything Bewteen 5:00 and 5:20.

This post probably makes no sense ! But what do others do for longer races and pacing !!! I try to run by feel but fast and slow currently all I can gauge !!!

Learning to run at different training or race paces is an art in itself and takes time to develop. For now I'd say use the watch but pay close attention to how you feel at different paces. Then over time you can associate these feelings with a particular pace.

As for this idea of targeting 4 hours...I don't think it's a great idea to compare with others and the training they do. It is not such an amazing feat for a 30 year old male to run a 4 hour marathon but it would be a much more substantial achievement for a 50 year old female. The basis of all marathon training irrespective of time targets is lots of easy miles, consistency of training over a decent period of time and then some speed work (MP and progression runs). Just be careful not to step up the distances you run dramatically. Any increase in volume should be incremental.

Kellygirl

Bluesquare wrote: »

Thanks all

I guess I’ll just have to figure it out . I’ve never exceeded 30 miles for half training but my times don’t improve that much either . I suspect my problems are more in the mind than the mileage!!!

Do you always follow the same type of plan?

Bluesquare wrote: »

One more question type comment thing :

I used to train off miles , then swapped to kms ( if you can’t beat them join them ) - when discussing running I use them interchangeably.

Now when racing or trying to pace myself I’ve been using kms - but I just can’t get it right .

I’m thinking for 1/2 marathon and marathon maybe miles would be better as they rounder and fatter and easier to compute . My brain sees 5:10 and thinks ok that’s approx anything Bewteen 5:00 and 5:20.

This post probably makes no sense ! But what do others do for longer races and pacing !!! I try to run by feel but fast and slow currently all I can gauge !!!

I’ve learned a lot about pacing following the Grads 5-10km plan the last 12 weeks or so. The 2 sessions every week have a huge variation in paces. Yesterday alone I had a warm up and cool down and a session with Threshold, CV, AP, VO2 and 110% all included. I still belt off too quick a lot of the time but definitely have improved a bit as the plan went on. All those paces come from the runfastcoach calculator. There’s usually a 10-12 second range approx for each pace.

In terms of miles or Km’s. I switched from Km’s to miles mainly for pacebands for marathons. I’m just used to it now. Just do whatever you like best.

dna_leri

Treviso wrote: »

I started running in Oct18 after years playing soccer. My goal is DCM this year, with also running the Cork half marathon in June.

I find the speed and hill work quite easy, but need to work on my leg endurance over long distances. Question is should I still include speed and hill work in my plan or could I just do tempo/progression runs for my midweek sessions to see the most improvement?

I would recommend to just work on your weaknesses while maintaining your strengths. Find a plan that maximises the mileage, tempo, and race pace runs. You can maintain speed with strides or hill sprints every 10 days or so.
In my one season of marathon training, I did nothing faster than 10K pace until the last few weeks. In hindsight I would probably include a few more strides but still focus on endurance.

Swiper the fox

Question guys, I’m still quite new to running, signed up for Dublin and expect to go around 3:30, 44 and about 81kg,
On a few of my longish runs lately I’ve stopped with a dull pain in my right knee, always at around 20k, usually feels much better after a few hours and feels perfect after 24 hours, I feel I need to see a professional, what should I look for, as in what title would said professional have?

Lazare

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Question guys, I’m still quite new to running, signed up for Dublin and expect to go around 3:30, 44 and about 81kg,
On a few of my longish runs lately I’ve stopped with a dull pain in my right knee, always at around 20k, usually feels much better after a few hours and feels perfect after 24 hours, I feel I need to see a professional, what should I look for, as in what title would said professional have?

A physiotherapist. Physio.

A lot of knee pain is footwear related, or to be more accurate, can be fixed with correct footwear. So don't despair.

vargoo

Lazare wrote: »

A lot of knee pain is footwear related, or to be more accurate, can be fixed with correct footwear. So don't despair.

Really?

Lazare

vargoo wrote: »

Really?

A lot of knee issues are fixed by wearing the correct shoes or custom orthotics.

The 'Staying injury free' chapters in Noakes' 'Lore of running' go pretty in-depth about it.

OOnegative

Lazare wrote: »

A lot of knee issues are fixed by wearing the correct shoes or custom orthotics.

There’s a for an against regarding orthotics, expensive waste of money in my opinion.

BeepBeep67

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Question guys, I’m still quite new to running, signed up for Dublin and expect to go around 3:30, 44 and about 81kg,
On a few of my longish runs lately I’ve stopped with a dull pain in my right knee, always at around 20k, usually feels much better after a few hours and feels perfect after 24 hours, I feel I need to see a professional, what should I look for, as in what title would said professional have?

Do you suffer from tight quads, no harming in loosening them out? YouTube quad stretches / release for runners.

Swiper the fox

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Do you suffer from tight quads, no harming in loosening them out? YouTube quad stretches / release for runners.

Thanks, I don't have any other problems whatsoever though, after 20k I feel like I could keep running for another 10 easily but the knee just starts acting up and it becomes obvious very quickly that I need to stop,
That was about 5 hours ago and I already feel pretty much back to normal, I'd like to get a professional opinion though, is it a physio or a sports therapist I need to see? Do they often double up?

Kellygirl

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Thanks, I don't have any other problems whatsoever though, after 20k I feel like I could keep running for another 10 easily but the knee just starts acting up and it becomes obvious very quickly that I need to stop,
That was about 5 hours ago and I already feel pretty much back to normal, I'd like to get a professional opinion though, is it a physio or a sports therapist I need to see? Do they often double up?

Get recommendations for either if you can. A good physio or a good physical therapist / sports therapist will work. I find it comes down to the person themselves as opposed to just their title but either of those professions should be able to help you.

podge018

Started doing a bit since turn of year, 5k parkrun every Saturday. Down 4 minutes this morning (24.28) since the first one and was happy out until I looked at my heart rate. I hit a max rate of 210bpm according to my Apple Watch. I’m 39 next month, about a stone overweight. I’m on a light blood pressure tablet.

I don’t be gasping or even out of breath at the end at all to be honest.

Anything to be concerned about? Apparently I should be hitting about 182 max.

Just to add, all my previous runs it maxed at exactly 196bpm.

vargoo

podge018 wrote: »

Started doing a bit since turn of year, 5k parkrun every Saturday. Down 4 minutes this morning (24.28) since the first one and was happy out until I looked at my heart rate. I hit a max rate of 210bpm according to my Apple Watch. I’m 39 next month, about a stone overweight. I’m on a light blood pressure tablet.

I don’t be gasping or even out of breath at the end at all to be honest.

Anything to be concerned about? Apparently I should be hitting about 182 max.

Just to add, all my previous runs it maxed at exactly 196bpm.

The watch sensors are sh1te, get chest strap.

vargoo

podge018 wrote: »

Anything to be concerned about? Apparently I should be hitting about 182 max.

Guidelines, unless you have been told by a doc to observe them, ignore.

If no watch, how would you even know. You run by feeling.

Which is what alot of your runs should be, leave watch home.

Zipppy

podge018 wrote:

Started doing a bit since turn of year, 5k parkrun every Saturday. Down 4 minutes this morning (24.28) since the first one and was happy out until I looked at my heart rate. I hit a max rate of 210bpm according to my Apple Watch. I’m 39 next month, about a stone overweight. I’m on a light blood pressure tablet.

nothing wrong with 24.28 5k time...whats your secret?

TFBubendorfer

podge018 wrote: »

I hit a max rate of 210bpm according to my Apple Watch. I’m 39 next month, about a stone overweight. I’m on a light blood pressure tablet.

I don’t be gasping or even out of breath at the end at all to be honest.

Without any doubt that is a false reading from your watch. You don't hit anywhere near your max HR if you aren't even gasping.

podge018 wrote: »

Anything to be concerned about? Apparently I should be hitting about 182 max.

Should be hitting 182 according to what?

First of all, ignore that reading, it cannot possibly be right. Secondly, no there is need to be concerned. It is impossible to run yourself to death because your body will automatically limit your power output well before you reach dangerous territory.

(Btw, I am well aware that people have died while running. However, that is not caused by "running too hard")

Lazare

Switched the HR monitor on my 235 off long ago. Useless battery waster.

As above, get a chest strap if you want to HR train.

Itziger

Did Mo Farah ever hold a World Record? I'm thinking Senior level only. My guess is, no.

Which, I would argue, counts him out of the G.O.A.T. poll, doesn't it?

TFBubendorfer

Itziger wrote: »

Did Mo Farah ever hold a World Record? I'm thinking Senior level only. My guess is, no.

Which, I would argue, counts him out of the G.O.A.T. poll, doesn't it?

It's not that hard to google or go directly to Wikipedia:

On 21 February 2015, Farah broke the indoor two-mile world record at the Birmingham Indoor Grand Prix. He ran an 8:03.4 to break Kenenisa Bekele's record.

Itziger

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It's not that hard to google or go directly to Wikipedia:

I know it's not hard to Google, but it's less fun (and you don't get passive aggressive abuse )