Girls gang raped in India

losthorizon

I know there have been some shocking stories recently but this just seems the worst of the lot. Two girls were gang raped and then hanged. We live in a terrible world .

I know India is a massive nation and its going to have quite a percentage of the terrible news items going around but this problem seems to be out of control.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/05/29/teenage-girls-gang-raped-and-hanged-in-india/

Rory Gallagher

losthorizon wrote: »

I know there have been some shocking stories recently but this just seems the worst of the lot. Two girls were gang raped and then hanged. We live in a terrible world .

I know India is a massive nation and its going to have quite a percentage of the terrible news items going around but this problem seems to be out of control.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/05/29/teenage-girls-gang-raped-and-hanged-in-india/

It's garnering more coverage maybe but India has had this sort of issue occurring for many years.

Penny Tration

What an awful, horrific story. Those poor girls

dodderangler

They're pure scum.
No ifs or buts about it
They're just scumbags and I honestly feel same should be done to them.

Amirani

Glass houses and all that - http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rapes/Per-capita

http://messymatters.com/rape/

Ireland has a higher rate rate than India.

eviltwin

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Glass houses and all that - http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rapes/Per-capita

Ireland has a higher rate rate than India.

Recorded rapes does not equal actual rapes.

Iwasfrozen

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Glass houses and all that - http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rapes/Per-capita

http://messymatters.com/rape/

Ireland has a higher rate rate than India.

India isn't on that list.

Amirani

eviltwin wrote: »

Recorded rapes does not equal actual rapes.

It's the only reasonable comparative statistic we have.

porsche boy

Some countries and various religions put different values on the life of a female over a male. For this reason alone I find it difficult to have respect for these nations and religions, actually I dont find it difficult, I find it impossible. Similar to the 25 year old girl who was stoned to death last week by her family for marrying the man she loved. Anybody who places lesser value on females over males and proceeds to carry out some kind of attack on that basis should have their c0ck chopped off. Any religious people that promotes this ideal should be called out for what they really are, ignorant sexest close minded pr1cks.

Diego Simeone

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Glass houses and all that - http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rapes/Per-capita

Ireland has a higher rate rate than India.

Even though already vastly unreported, the vast majority of crimes against Dalit people in India, in particular girls and women, remain unrecorded by the police. Of those that are recorded, a minority are investigated and a tiny proportion brought to trial. Of those brought to trial, in some places less than 10% result in a conviction. Of those convicted, a minority are given custodial sentences.


http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/of-every-100-held-in-haryana-for-crime-against-dalits-92-walk-free/1147472/

Out of every 100 people accused of or arrested on charges of committing crimes against the Dalits, more than 92 walk free after the court trials. This translates into a conviction rate of merely 7.9 per cent.

Crimes against Dalit people are almost consequence free in many parts of India.

major bill

I know it's the sunday world but the quote at the end is shocking

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/crime-desk/donal-macintyre-s-crime-cafe/teenage-girls-gang-raped-and-hung-from-tree

no time for rapists so if there is no shadow of doubt the people are guilty then a pad saw to the mickey is good enough punishment.

Can feed it to the human rights PC gang afterwards if they give out

Amirani

Candie wrote: »

Even though already vastly unreported, the vast majority of crimes against Dalit people in India, in particular girls and women, remain unrecorded by the police. Of those that are recorded, a minority are investigated and a tiny proportion brought to trial. Of those brought to trial, in some places less than 10% result in a conviction. Of those convicted, a minority are given custodial sentences.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/of-every-100-held-in-haryana-for-crime-against-dalits-92-walk-free/1147472/

Crimes against Dalit people are almost consequence free in many parts of India.

I agree on both of these points, and I am playing devil's advocate to an extent.

India as a whole does have some serious problems with rape (and other crimes), particularly with regard to certain societal groups. However, I haven't really seen any compelling evidence that suggests that it is a complete outlier with regard to reported or unreported rapes.

I'd be very weary of people branding India as a nation of rapists (which I've seen some do) simply because they don't understand how big a number 1 billion is.

Diego Simeone

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I'd be very weary of people branding India as a nation of rapists (which I've seen some do) simply because they don't understand how big a number 1 billion is.

I know how big a billion is . There are huge disparities between the numbers of admitted rapes, but even the lowest rates of admission are horrific.

http://idsn.org/caste-discrimination/key-issues/dalit-women/india/

A three-year study of 500 Dalit women’s experiences of violence across four Indian states shows that the majority of Dalit women report having faced one or more incidents of verbal abuse (62.4%), physical assault (54.8%), sexual harassment and assault (46.8%), domestic violence (43.0%) and rape (23.2%).

http://www.icl-fi.org/print/english/wh/222/India.html

A March 2006 study of violence against dalit women by the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights reported that out of 500 women studied, 116 had been raped or gang-raped; among the perpetrators, “dominant caste landlords emerged as the most prominent group”.

Dowry deaths and honour killings are not uncommon, the more rural the woman's home, the more likely she is to fall victim.

India is a huge and diverse country with much to be proud of. The lives of many of the scheduled castes and tribes would not be among those things.

tritium

Candie wrote: »

Even though already vastly unreported, the vast majority of crimes against Dalit people in India, in particular girls and women, remain unrecorded by the police. Of those that are recorded, a minority are investigated and a tiny proportion brought to trial. Of those brought to trial, in some places less than 10% result in a conviction. Of those convicted, a minority are given custodial sentences.


http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/of-every-100-held-in-haryana-for-crime-against-dalits-92-walk-free/1147472/



Crimes against Dalit people are almost consequence free in many parts of India.

This!

Seems that there's an historical cultural attitude in some parts of India, especially rural areas, that the so called 'untouchables' are dirt to be used and abused as you wish. Years of legislation seems to have done little to change it in some parts

pow wow

Would have thought the fact that they were also murdered would have made it into your thread title OP.

Pumpkinseeds

I heard on the news this morning that some of the rapists were police and that when the fathers went to the police station to report the girls missing they were immediately told that the girls were hanging from a tree. Add to this the fact that a family beat a pregnant woman to death in an 'honour killing' for marrying someone they didn't choose.

India has a horrendous record of crimes against females. It seems to be so entrenched in so many men there. I'm not criticising all Indian men, I'm just saying that it seems to be socially acceptable. Police standing by watching a couple of dozen people beat a pregnant woman to death outside a court and rape is out of control.

pragmatic1

Nearly made me physically sick when I read about it. Disgusting the way women are treated in many sections of Indian society.

Tail Docker

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I agree on both of these points, and I am playing devil's advocate to an extent.

I thought you worked as a state advocate tbh. What happened? Devil offer better pay?

Pumpkinseeds

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I heard on the news this morning that some of the rapists were police and that when the fathers went to the police station to report the girls missing they were immediately told that the girls were hanging from a tree. Add to this the fact that a family beat a pregnant woman to death in an 'honour killing' for marrying someone they didn't choose.

India has a horrendous record of crimes against females. It seems to be so entrenched in so many men there. I'm not criticising all Indian men, I'm just saying that it seems to be socially acceptable. Police standing by watching a couple of dozen people beat a pregnant woman to death outside a court and rape is out of control.

That incident happened in Pakistan, not India.

Atlantic Dawn

Why do we give aid to such countries, they shouldn't get one cent from Ireland until they join the developed world.

Icepick

Caste system, another fine invention of a religious mind.

Icepick

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why do we give aid to such countries, they shouldn't get one cent from Ireland until they join the developed world.

They get help to join the developed world.
And we havent fully joined yet either. For example, abortion rights in this country are a travesty that doesn't belong to the developed world.

smurgen

there's not adequate words to register my disgust.anyone who aided,enabled these sub humans either before,during or after the rape/killings should be done away with. I can honestly say that reading that has ruined my night ffs

robertxxx

Savages would be putting it nicely.

Pure muck!

B.A._Baracus

too many rape stories coming from India. but they're not just rape, but gang rape
Cut the balls of these people.

woodoo

What a backward arsed kip India is.

mcko

And their ambassador lectured us about the Savita case.

CiDeRmAn

To be fair, India is simply vast, a massive massive country.
Actually is more like a federation of different countries, each region with different cultures and practices.
I am lucky enough to work alongside a number of staff from the subcontinent and they are all decent and morally as outraged as the rest of the world about these crimes.
If there is an area where such discrimination and brutality is tolerated the forces of law and order in that democratic country should take action.
If the local police is complicit, as suggested, then they have failed in their duty and should also be brought to justice.
The horror of it is that a group is so dehumanised that others feel they have the right to treat them like a piece of rubbish.
There is much work needed to change this, I don't know how on a earth you'd start, given how travellers have been treated in this country, along with countless other groups in our history, be it gays, unmarried mothers, women who marry and want to continue working, Jews and other immigrants, all have been scapegoats and foci of abuse over the years.

RDM_83 again

^^^^
Well their new leader is considered by many to be complicit in fomenting and tolerating violence against the Muslim minority in his previous role.
Before I get accused of whataboutery as an outsider India seems to have a massive problem with inequality and toleration of brutality against the powerless, this seems to apply across genders in relation to caste, is Dalits mans life any better protected than a Dalits woman I don't think so. By the way I am not arguing that India doesn't at least to an outsider to be very sexist, but what stands at least to me is that its more about power

Nodin

RDM_83 again wrote: »

^^^^
Well their new leader is considered by many to be complicit in fomenting and tolerating violence against the Muslim minority in his previous role.
Before I get accused of whataboutery as an outsider India seems to have a massive problem with inequality and toleration of brutality against the powerless, this seems to apply across genders in relation to caste, is Dalits mans life any better protected than a Dalits woman I don't think so. By the way I am not arguing that India doesn't at least to an outsider to be very sexist, but what stands at least to me is that its more about power

Certainly its been a factor in some of it, particularily when the Dalit have refused feudal obligations.

Autonomous Cowherd

Many many years ago i was molested in India, reported the crime, was immediately bundled onto the back of a police truck, they cornered the guy in the market and took aim with guns. In my desperate fright at what had so quickly escalated into what looked like might be a public execution I said that he was not the guy. I spent a couple of wonderful years in India, but would never move about alone as a woman. There has been a shocking rise in reported rapes and gang rapes. It turns my stomach. The inexpressible horror for those 2 poor children hanging from the tree! It is pure savagery. I have advised my children against travelling there in spite of how much the country and its culture/philosophy and legacy have meant to me all my life. There is a huge social uprising within India against this embedded misogyny and caste discrimination. The vast majority of the noble people of India would be sickened by this savagery. Hopefully the public outcry will begin to change attitudes in the villages. Sentences need to be punitive.

--LOS--

and people complain about feminists

Overheal

eviltwin wrote: »

Recorded rapes does not equal actual rapes.

In that case no need to worry right?

Tilikum

I read yesterday a guy can murder his wife, then go to her family and apologise, or offer the family money. I think it was called 'honour money' and if the family accept, the case against him will be dropped.

I MEAN WTF?

In my honest opinion it is the worst country on the planet. These scumbag rapists should either be shot or thrown into general population with the other prisoners. Actually that goes for any country. Rapists & paedos should be put into general population in all prisons. I bet it would cut numbers waaay down.

What's to stop these scumbags if they know all that will happen to them is, they'll get put into a cell with another paedo/rapist. Where they can spend their days chatting/getting off on what done.

I tell ya, I would sort this **** out in no time at all.

Fact.

Nodin

Tilikum wrote: »

I read yesterday a guy can murder his wife, then go to her family and apologise, or offer the family money. I think it was called 'honour money' and if the family accept, the case against him will be dropped.

I MEAN WTF?

In my honest opinion it is the worst country on the planet. .

Pakistan is where that happened, bot India.n

Tilikum

Nodin wrote: »

Pakistan is where that happened, bot India.n

Oh!

tritium

Tilikum wrote: »

I read yesterday a guy can murder his wife, then go to her family and apologise, or offer the family money. I think it was called 'honour money' and if the family accept, the case against him will be dropped.

I MEAN WTF?

In my honest opinion it is the worst country on the planet. These scumbag rapists should either be shot or thrown into general population with the other prisoners. Actually that goes for any country. Rapists & paedos should be put into general population in all prisons. I bet it would cut numbers waaay down.

What's to stop these scumbags if they know all that will happen to them is, they'll get put into a cell with another paedo/rapist. Where they can spend their days chatting/getting off on what done.

I tell ya, I would sort this **** out in no time at all.

Fact.

Honour money tends to be more common in the middle east. It would apply to most violent crime regardless of the gender of the victim.

Tilikum

tritium wrote: »

Honour money tends to be more common in the middle east. It would apply to most violent crime regardless of the gender of the victim.

It's madness

tritium

--LOS-- wrote: »

and people complain about feminists

Feminism thread is that way -->

As has been pointed out these poor girls were most likely killed because of the caste they were born into rather than their gender, so please have some respect and stop trying to score political points.

To analogise to Ireland if it happened here it would have been that they were travellers not that they were women

tritium

Tilikum wrote: »

It's madness

Yes I don't disagree

Grayson

Tilikum wrote: »

In my honest opinion it is the worst country on the planet. .

As bad as it is there are far worse places on the planet.

Tigger

In 2011 there were 24,000 (approx )reported rapes in India
Population is 1.2 billion so that's 0.2 rapes per 10,000 or double the reported rated in ireland
However in India many many rapes are purported to go unreported

Wibbs

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Glass houses and all that - http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rapes/Per-capita

http://messymatters.com/rape/

Ireland has a higher rate rate than India.

Oh for god's sake. I wondered how long it would take for this kinda lazy nonsense to rear its head. If you honestly think that a) a woman is safer in India and b) you're making anything approaching a valid point I really just don't know... And no, it's not being a "devils advocate".

tritium wrote:

As has been pointed out these poor girls were most likely killed because of the caste they were born into rather than their gender,

More like both were in play. In the culture women are traditionally seen as lesser and the more rural you go, the more pronounced this gets. Add in the eyeswivelingly daft caste system and you get an already lesser being becoming a disposable object. They're more disposable as women and being untouchables as well they'd be seen by some as little more than beasts. Or even lesser. They'd not string a cow up.

Regardless, if there was ever a incident that could be viewed through the lens of feminism this is most surely one.

Pawn

losthorizon wrote: »

Two girls were gang raped and then hanged. We live in a terrible world .

I know it may come in as a shocking surprise but the fact of not having friends on Facebook is a least concern for 90% of the world's population.

Yes, ignorance is bliss.

tritium

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh for god's sake. I wondered how long it would take for this kinda lazy nonsense to rear its head. If you honestly think that a) a woman is safer in India and b) you're making anything approaching a valid point I really just don't know... And no, it's not being a "devils advocate".

More like both were in play. In the culture women are traditionally seen as lesser and the more rural you go, the more pronounced this gets. Add in the eyeswivelingly daft caste system and you get an already lesser being becoming a disposable object. They're more disposable as women and being untouchables as well they'd be seen by some as little more than beasts. Or even lesser. They'd not string a cow up.

Regardless, if there was ever a incident that could be viewed through the lens of feminism this is most surely one.

I think you're wrong in this case wibbs. While there have been some pretty shocking rape incidents recently there is a far more prevalent problem with how the untouchable caste are viewed especially in rural areas. India has actually tried to be seen to be tough on sex crime of late because they know how much damage its doing to their image. Social class based crime is however another matter. Have a Google on how the untouchables are treated in some parts of India (male and female) and come back to me if you still disagree

Wibbs

Oh sure T, the caste system is beyond belief in its stupidity in the 21st century. Hell it looked daft in the 10th century. At the time one Muslim trader from Arabia observed it firsthand and I think he'd forgive my translation of his classical Arabic into "what the everlivin fuq is this madness?". And yes caste played a huge part in this odious crime and crimes like it. However the fact of their gender made them even lesser. Within whatever caste you are from low to high, women are considered lesser across the board in the culture.

tritium

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh sure T, the caste system is beyond belief in its stupidity in the 21st century. Hell it looked daft in the 10th century. At the time one Muslim trader from Arabia observed it firsthand and I think he'd forgive my translation of his classical Arabic into "what the everlivin fuq is this madness?". And yes caste played a huge part in this odious crime and crimes like it. However the fact of their gender made them even lesser. Within whatever caste you are from low to high, women are considered lesser across the board in the culture.

And your first point is why I think feminism isn't the right lens to view this through- even if everyone in that caste was equal they'd still be the victims in their society.

(Probably should take this back in topic though)

positron

I mentioned this before in the case of Delhi gange rape, there has been a massive explosion of news media in India in last decade or so. The country has changed dramatically, and if someone as much as slip and fall over a banana peel, you can put your money that it will be on some local media station's evening news. Okay that is some exaggeration, but you get the idea. The sum of all that is that now everything is getting reported, and some of it makes national headlines too (some of which then catch eye of the foreign media, and then you and I would post it here on boards and debate).

Truth is and remains that there are rapes and all other crimes going on in India like any other society in the world. Certain arears of India with huge uneducated rural population things are a bit worse. Now that there's a news reporter and a camera can at every junction, a lot of the crimes gets reported on media first before the Police even gets to the scene.

Anyway, country is rapidly changing and 90% of the 1.x billion people of India are horrified by these news reports just like how we are, and they usually gets out and protests. You can say many bad things about Indians, but they are not apathetic to the democratic system - for instance in last general elections, some 67% turned out of vote.

Lightning fast change is going on India. We just see some frames of it and react. I can guarantee you that the situation on the ground is way different from the perception one might get from reading these reports.

StinkyMunkey

Just when I think I can't be shocked, ****e like this emerges. I could care less about your religion or what country you are from, how a person can do that to another human is beyond me. Hopefully it's a fast track execution for them, the more messy the better, sends a clear message to these sub humans.

Mike747

major bill wrote: »

I know it's the sunday world but the quote at the end is shocking

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/crime-desk/donal-macintyre-s-crime-cafe/teenage-girls-gang-raped-and-hung-from-tree

no time for rapists so if there is no shadow of doubt the people are guilty then a pad saw to the mickey is good enough punishment.

Can feed it to the human rights PC gang afterwards if they give out

Say that when you get falsely accused of rape.

The Diabolical Monocle

Eye for an eye.
Bring out Bubba.