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Eliot Rodger and TFL or True Force Loneliness.

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    #92
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    Lou.m wrote: »
    Yes you do.

    You find good looking people who are jerks in both genders.

    Having a lousy selfish personality is lack of social skills. It is very unattractive in both genders.


    There is a difference between lacking social skills and being a "jerk".

    The proportion of good looking guys who lack social skills vs the proportion of below average looking guys who lack social skills is minute.

    This is because the good looking guy has had positive reinforcement while the Elliot Rodger guy has been told all his life, consciously or subconsciously, that he isn't good enough, which leads to him being socially inhibited. These instances are heavily alluded to in his manifesto. A good looking guy simply wouldn't have had these experiences and would have had much more positive ones instead i.e girls saying he was cute, him being popular etc. We have to talk in general terms, (but i know someone who is good looking who is bad socially etc - just doesn't fly, exceptions prove the rule, think of the bigger picture).

    Elliot Rodger was a victim of his looks. He endured persistent mental damage because of them and grew more and more resentful. He was completely wrong in what he did, but if you look at these shooters (sodini, cho, lanza, rodger), they are all victims of their looks. If they were good looking guys, they simply wouldn't have done what they did.


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    #93
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    ongarboy wrote: »
    Using that simplistic logic, we should be nervous or on guard around every short, skinny, unattractive looking guy who lives in middle-upper class areas as they could all potentially go on the rampage due to not being highly regarded by their better looking peers or hot girls. Millions of guys endure what this guy went through (being rejected by girls out of their league, surrounded by better looking, confident, socially superior alpha males, being mocked or bullied because of it maybe) but while they may not enjoy it, resent it or even be damaged by it), they don't turn into maniacs. This guy obviously had other more severe psychological or dysfunctional issues going on that turned him into this. Whether we'll ever find out what that was, I'm not sure.


    Yes americans should and will be on guard around these types of guys. The profile of a shooter is now out there and just as you described. Look up Cho, Lanza, and Sodini. These shooters are lower inhibitions, probably a lack of serotonin or something, which leads to them carrying out these shootings.


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    #94
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    walshb wrote: »
    The guy is just a bad apple. Nothing to do with looks or women or rejection. Some people have a consistent and intense nasty streak.


    His looks were a huge factor but not the only one, I agree.

    The fact remains though, if he looked like Sean O'Pry, he wouldn't have done this.


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    #95
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    ragnarl wrote: »
    There is a difference between lacking social skills and being a "jerk".

    The proportion of good looking guys who lack social skills vs the proportion of below average looking guys who lack social skills is minute.

    This is because the good looking guy has had positive reinforcement while the Elliot Rodger guy has been told all his life, consciously or subconsciously, that he isn't good enough, which leads to him being socially inhibited. These instances are heavily alluded to in his manifesto. A good looking guy simply wouldn't have had these experiences and would have had much more positive ones instead i.e girls saying he was cute, him being popular etc. We have to talk in general terms, (but i know someone who is good looking who is bad socially etc - just doesn't fly, exceptions prove the rule, think of the bigger picture).
    I'm not convinced by that. I've read something before that the way you see yourself is influenced a lot by how you saw yourself at 16. At lot of how a male will see themselves growing up is nothing to do with their looks. For example, you can be good at sport no matter what your looks and that can influence your self-esteem. If you're bright in school/academically, you can get confidence from that. If you have other areas you are good or get positive feedback from e.g. musically, dancing, etc you can get confidence from that. If you go on to do a job you're good at, you can get confidence from that. If you're seen as a good laugh, you can get confidence from that.


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    #96
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,109 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    ragnarl wrote: »
    His looks were a huge factor but not the only one, I agree.

    The fact remains though, if he looked like Sean O'Pry, he wouldn't have done this.

    To me that is nonsense. He may not have done what he did, but he may still have done something evil. The guy was a disturbed and bad person. Sometimes we can look and look and look for reasons. Sometimes the reason is simple: Evil/real badness exists in the world.


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    #97
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,348 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    ragnarl wrote: »
    The fact remains though, if he looked like Sean O'Pry, he wouldn't have done this.

    No idea who Sean O'Pry is but I assume he is some model type. Model types can have mental illness too which can be seen by alot of the self harm that is prevalent in media, arts, etc.
    There is no way to know whether he would or would not have done this if he looked different.


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    #98
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    ragnarl wrote: »
    His looks were a huge factor but not the only one, I agree.

    The fact remains though, if he looked like Sean O'Pry, he wouldn't have done this.


    his looks have nothing to do with this, nothing

    he had aspergers/autism and from reading his manifesto he was suffering from a few other personality disorders

    thats why her never really had friends and never had any girlfriend

    you could give a man like Elliot Rodger a bag of money and send him into a brothel and he still wouldn't score

    the man was mental

    and I don't think he was ever even rejected by woman, because it looks to me that he never even talked to many women


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    #99
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    His evilness/badness is a red herring when youre trying to decipher what exactly went wrong.

    Get back to me when a very good looking guy commits a mass shooting, blaming his mentality on years of lonliness and not being able to get a girlfriend.

    The next shooter will be anther rodger/cho/lanza/sodini type. Fact.


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    #100
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,348 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    ragnarl wrote: »
    The next shooter will be anther rodger/cho/lanza/sodini type. Fact.
    ragnarl wrote: »
    The fact remains though, if he looked like Sean O'Pry, he wouldn't have done this.

    Saying fact over and over again does not make it so.


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    #101
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    Lets see what happens.

    I look forward to the first male model that committs a mass shooting because he cant get girls!


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    #102
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    ragnarl wrote: »
    His evilness/badness is a red herring when youre trying to decipher what exactly went wrong.

    Get back to me when a very good looking guy commits a mass shooting, blaming his mentality on years of lonliness and not being able to get a girlfriend.

    The next shooter will be anther rodger/cho/lanza/sodini type. Fact.

    rodger/cho/lanza all had mental problems, I don't remember who sodini was

    also you seem to think that rodger was ugly, not really true IMO

    if he had a normal personality he would have had no problem getting a girlfriend


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    #103
    beano345
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭beano345


    ragnarl wrote: »
    His evilness/badness is a red herring when youre trying to decipher what exactly went wrong.

    Get back to me when a very good looking guy commits a mass shooting, blaming his mentality on years of lonliness and not being able to get a girlfriend.

    The next shooter will be anther rodger/cho/lanza/sodini type. Fact.

    Reminds me of this blog post I found months ago,I noticed he's put in an edit since the Eliot Rodger killings

    http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/confessions-of-a-reformed-incel/


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    #104
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ragnarl wrote: »
    His evilness/badness is a red herring when youre trying to decipher what exactly went wrong.

    Get back to me when a very good looking guy commits a mass shooting, blaming his mentality on years of lonliness and not being able to get a girlfriend.

    The next shooter will be anther rodger/cho/lanza/sodini type. Fact.

    Calling it evil is a red herring but the reality is that Rodger had pretty significant mental health issues which completely warped his ability to engage in rational thought.

    I'm an average looking fella like probably everyone on here commenting and I can't say I've felt persistent mental damage because of it. It never stop me getting married.

    The fact is all of the people you mentioned suffered from mental illness who projected their anger outwards and blame outside forces for their problems - that girl rejected me therefore all girls are bitches who think they are above me - it becomes the psychopathic extreme of the nice guy syndrome. The fact that they are unable to get a girlfriend is not the fault of women but obviously the way they react with the opposite sex is enough to scare them off. It becomes a self perpetuating cycle that has zero to do with their looks and everything to with their mental state and how they interact socially.


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    #105
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    beano345 wrote: »
    Reminds me of this blog post I found months ago,I noticed he's put in an edit since the Eliot Rodger killings


    Wow, that was very good. He understands it perfectly. Exceptional read.

    Cheers


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    #106
    beano345
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭beano345


    ragnarl wrote: »
    Wow, that was very good. He understands it perfectly. Exceptional read.

    Cheers

    Its a good read no matter how wrong or right you think he is,kinda nails the whole involuntary celibacy thing.


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    #107
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,109 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Fed up with mental illness being used over and over again to describe bad and evil acts. Can you have a mental illness and also be evil? Can you be just evil? Does evil exist? Plenty of people suffering with depression/mental illness who never commit heinous acts.


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    #108
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    walshb wrote: »
    Fed up with mental illness being used over and over again to describe bad and evil acts. Can you have a mental illness and also be evil? Can you be just evil? Does evil exist? Plenty of people suffering with depression/mental illness who never commit heinous acts.

    Mental illness doesn't absolve a person of responsibility for their actions but it can give us an understanding of what caused them to do what they do and maybe in the future help us to be able to prevent tragedies in the future. Saying someone's just evil doesn't explain sh¡t tbh.


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    #109
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    beano345 wrote: »
    Reminds me of this blog post I found months ago,I noticed he's put in an edit since the Eliot Rodger killings

    http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/confessions-of-a-reformed-incel/

    Maybe I'm getting old but I found that a pretty horrible read. Do people aspire to be like this guy? He sounds like an utter arsehole…


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    #110
    beano345
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭beano345


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Maybe I'm getting old but I found that a pretty horrible read. Do people aspire to be like this guy? He sounds like an utter arsehole…

    If it helps some guy out there who's involuntary celibate get laid what's the harm,obviously what they're doing isn't working


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    #111
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    beano345 wrote: »
    Reminds me of this blog post I found months ago,I noticed he's put in an edit since the Eliot Rodger killings

    http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/confessions-of-a-reformed-incel/

    That guy is fúcking terrifying.

    Just for kicks imagine it was written by a woman in her '30s who was desperate to have a baby with any guy that she could have a relationship with and see how it sounds:
    When i read it or stories like it, these are the THINGS I FEEL

    When i hear a man tell me that he’s not ready to be a parent and probably won't be for years.. i feel like putting my fist through his face.
    When i hear a man tell me that he feels ugly or unloved or unwanted because his partner hasn’t touched him in over 6 months because she has post natal drepression i feel like laughing loudly 3 inches from his face.
    When i hear a man tell me that he just picked up a random girl for a night of fun because felt like no strings sex without consequences, i feel like i’m glad i don’t own a gun.
    When i hear a man tell me that i shouldn’t feel bad about having to wait so so long to have a baby with someone I care about , after all there's always adoption, i feel like disfiguring his face with a scalpel.


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    #112
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    beano345 wrote: »
    If it helps some guy out there who's involuntary celibate get laid what's the harm,obviously what they're doing isn't working

    What's the harm? It is one of the sh¡ttiest, most misogynistic screeds I've ever had the misfortune to read. If people think this is good advice and are actually walking around and giving themselves such self-pitying labels as involuntarily celibate then this world is fúcked…


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    #113
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    Try not having sex or even kissing a girl for 12 years and then get back to him.


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    #114
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ragnarl wrote: »
    Try not having sex or even kissing a girl for 12 years and then get back to him.

    12 years he could have spent developing as a human being rather than spending it suffering from nice guy syndrome.


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    #115
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    What's the harm? Is one of the sh¡ttiest, most misogynistic screeds I've ever had the misfortune to read. If people think this is good advice and are actually walking around and giving themselves such self-pitying labels as involuntarily celibate then this world is fúcked…

    but the depressing thing is, he gets far more women since he became an asshole than in the past when he was "nice"

    but of course we only have his word to back up his claims


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    #116
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    B0jangles wrote: »
    That guy is fúcking terrifying.

    Just for kicks imagine it was written by a woman in her '30s who was desperate to have a baby with any guy that she could have a relationship with and see how it sounds:

    Eh, your role reversal is nothing I haven't heard before :confused:

    I find it funny you thought it would be shocking and eye opening. The original post is shocking enough.

    EDIT:

    If anybody who finds it difficult to get a girlfriend wants my advice. Personally, I think you should avoid the following before you have been sexually intimate with a female (Or have close female friends)

    A) Stay away from feminist sites. It's quite theoretical, a little bit hypocritical, and isn't quite 'reality'. Most women aren't going to mace you if you ask them on a date :P

    B) Same for MRA and PUA sites. Same above, but there is a little bit of a nastier element.


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    #117
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    Eh, your role reversal is nothing I haven't heard before :confused:

    I find it funny you thought it would be shocking and eye opening. The original post is shocking enough.


    Yeah, I've noticed that there are a fair few posters around here that would extend a certain amount of sympathy towards unbelivably aggressive and frustrated guys that would most definitely run a mile from a similarly crazed woman.

    It was for their benefit, not yours.

    (Look just above for feck's sake.)


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    #118
    ragnarl
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭ragnarl


    Well I agree that PUA sites are pretty terrible. I saw that stephen nolan bloke advertising his PUA site on a talk show. He came across as a right idiot, nothing but manipulation. Then theres other sites that promise you will be pulling girls off the dublin streets in no time etc etc. Its all ridiculous. It's an insult to my intelligence, reading those sites.


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    #119
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,109 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Mental illness doesn't absolve a person of responsibility for their actions but it can give us an understanding of what caused them to do what they do and maybe in the future help us to be able to prevent tragedies in the future. Saying someone's just evil doesn't explain sh¡t tbh.

    I asked can a person be plain bad/nasty, or evil without having a mental illness? There are times when it's just nastiness and badness that makes folks do what they do. What that guy did was pure evil. Deliberately evil and bad. It took real planning. Nothing to do with women/looks/shyness/confidence. That may have been his justification. Doesn't make any of it plausible.


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    #120
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    beano345 wrote: »
    Reminds me of this blog post I found months ago,I noticed he's put in an edit since the Eliot Rodger killings

    http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/confessions-of-a-reformed-incel/

    that person has issues :mad: so violent


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    #121
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    such a twisted bitter person

    http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2013/07/04/youll-need-more-than-just-your-vagina-to-compete-with-the-future-nsfw/


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