Forum Feedback

Myrddin

bazarakus wrote: »

This point is senseless:

"A Mod decision is final, if you disagree with an infraction or ban feel free to take it to the pm level. If your still not happy, there is a Dispute Resolution Procedure you can follow. Don't argue with a mod on thread."

Why would one person's decision be final? If that's the case then there is no point in anything. If you can be arbitrarily banned because of the opinion/whim of a mod then what is the point in arguing a final decision? The decision is final but you can disagree? This does not make sense.

The jist of this is that if a user has been actioned by a mod (be it a warning/infraction/ban), then if they have reason to want to discuss/dispute it...they're asked to please take that to the pm level...purely for the sake of the other users of the thread (so they don't have to trawl through off topic posts). If, after discussing it with the mod & the mod is standing by their decision, the user then has another route to go if they wish...the DRP. In the DRP forum, they can have the warning/infraction/ban reviewed by a Cmod to see if said action was warranted. If the Cmod stands over the action, then the user can take even further again, & have an Admin review the action.

So there's plenty of scope to have any decision looked at & reviewed. Again the reason it's asked to be dealt with off forum, is for the sake of the other users not having to read through it. The wording of that part in the charter could definitely be made clearer, so by all means, thanks for bringing it up

Al Capwned

An issue with moderation of this forum would surely be that there are two sets of rules in play. The boards.ie rules and the rules of the game itself.

Any prospective moderator couldn't have the power to enforce the rules of the game - only ensuring that all posters adhere to the charter.

The big recent issue on the Manager Waiting List thread was whether or not a manager should be made quit his current club as soon as he's awarded the new job. There obviously is no rule on SoccerManager.com pertaining to this, but the way the thread went in that period could surely have been helped by good moderation.

Also on that, it needs to be someone from INSIDE the SM forum, as it would be practically impossible for an 'outsider' to comprehend the boards-specific soccer manager rules.

/2c

Myrddin

Al Capwned wrote: »

Any prospective moderator couldn't have the power to enforce the rules of the game - only ensuring that all posters adhere to the charter.

The big recent issue on the Manager Waiting List thread was whether or not a manager should be made quit his current club as soon as he's awarded the new job. There obviously is no rule on SoccerManager.com pertaining to this, but the way the thread went in that period could surely have been helped by good moderation.

How are rule changes handled at the mo? Do users discuss proposals & the majority decide etc?

GT_TDI_150

Myrddin wrote: »

How are rule changes handled at the mo? Do users discuss proposals & the majority decide etc?

it depends because there is about 4-5 different games at play here and they are completely seperate entities ...

for the boards.ie league there tehd to be votes and the games owner applies the changeds to the game at the turn of the season

hufpc8w3adnk65

Myrddin wrote: »

How are rule changes handled at the mo? Do users discuss proposals & the majority decide etc?

In the boards.ie league I ask for opinions from every player via the thread and if needed we have a poll. I may have paid for it but the game would be very lonely If I was the only one playing so it's everyone's game as much as mine. So far everything has worked out by majority vote.

Al Capwned

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

it depends because there is about 4-5 different games at play here and they are completely seperate entities ...

for the boards.ie league there tehd to be votes and the games owner applies the changeds to the game at the turn of the season

This is the precise reason that any prospective moderator will only be able to enforce the boards.ie rules, and will have no say in any action that is taken on soccermanager.com.

Even MrMac84, as the boards.ie gameworld owner, has no powers to enforce any rules on SM. Any issues a player has can only be taken up with the SMFA - the website owners/game developers, what ever you want to call them
They have their own appeals/complaints system, flawed as it is.
__

That said, it has been evident on many occasions that pressure from our 'thread-mates' has been sufficient to ensure that no rules are being blatantly flouted.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Al Capwned wrote: »

This is the precise reason that any prospective moderator will only be able to enforce the boards.ie rules, and will have no say in any action that is taken on soccermanager.com.

Even MrMac84, as the boards.ie gameworld owner, has no powers to enforce any rules on SM. Any issues a player has can only be taken up with the SMFA - the website owners/game developers, what ever you want to call them
They have their own appeals/complaints system, flawed as it is.
__

That said, it has been evident on many occasions that pressure from our 'thread-mates' has been sufficient to ensure that no rules are being blatantly flouted.

Couldn't have said better my self.

Myrddin

Al Capwned wrote: »

This is the precise reason that any prospective moderator will only be able to enforce the boards.ie rules, and will have no say in any action that is taken on soccermanager.com.

Even MrMac84, as the boards.ie gameworld owner, has no powers to enforce any rules on SM. Any issues a player has can only be taken up with the SMFA - the website owners/game developers, what ever you want to call them
They have their own appeals/complaints system, flawed as it is.
__

That said, it has been evident on many occasions that pressure from our 'thread-mates' has been sufficient to ensure that no rules are being blatantly flouted.

Enforcing rules on third party sites though is something outside the remit of ANY boards.ie mod though, it wouldn't be limited to this forum. I assume SM has it's own way of investigating & dealing with those who break the SM rules? A mod here would be tasked with ensuring everyone remain civil to each other, & for things to be as constructive as possible between the users for the better of everyone...can the two not co-exist?

Al Capwned

Myrddin wrote: »

Enforcing rules on third party sites though is something outside the remit of ANY boards.ie mod though, it wouldn't be limited to this forum. I assume SM has it's own way of investigating & dealing with those who break the SM rules? A mod here would be tasked with ensuring everyone remain civil to each other, & for things to be as constructive as possible between the users for the better of everyone...can the two not co-exist?

SM has it's own rulebook yes, and we've all seen it work in some shape or form I'd imagine.

And of course a boards mod could (and should) be able to do this - that would be the primary responsibility of any mod, would it not..

I do feel that there is very little that an SM-mod would have to do - there are subtle little digs at other posters on occasion, as well as a couple of times that the abuse rule has definitely been broken. I'd imagine that the mere presence of a Soccer Manager mod would help with these, and that very little actual moderation would have to be done, if you get me. A gentle reminder of the rules before something gets out of hand is more often than not a better option than coming down hard on someone.

The forum does work quite well even without a designated mod, but I'd welcome one if it stopped the albeit very occasional spats.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Al Capwned wrote: »

SM has it's own rulebook yes, and we've all seen it work in some shape or form I'd imagine.

And of course a boards mod could (and should) be able to do this - that would be the primary responsibility of any mod, would it not..

I do feel that there is very little that an SM-mod would have to do - there are subtle little digs at other posters on occasion, as well as a couple of times that the abuse rule has definitely been broken. I'd imagine that the mere presence of a Soccer Manager mod would help with these, and that very little actual moderation would have to be done, if you get me. A gentle reminder of the rules before something gets out of hand is more often than not a better option than coming down hard on someone.

The forum does work quite well even without a designated mod, but I'd welcome one if it stopped the albeit very occasional spats.

Pretty much how I feel aswell. It needs too be 1 of us and someone who has been around long enough too know when it's banter and when it's sly digs!

Seaneh

It also needs to be someone level headed enough to know when to just use the mod voice and give a general warning and when to give infractions/bans, and who wouldn't use their position as mod to favour their mates in the threads.

Al Capwned

With any thread that has only what, maybe 35/40 active posters (at a pure guess) there are going to be friendships or cliques formed on one side of the coin. But there will invariably be arguments and disagreements between posters. I agree with Seaneh :eek:

Also, I second what Mac said that it does need to be someone that has been around for a while, as there are distinct personalities within the forum whose posts an 'outside' mod may misinterpret.

tupac_healy

MrMac84 wrote: »

Pretty much how I feel aswell. It needs too be 1 of us and someone who has been around long enough too know when it's banter and when it's sly digs!

Would it not make total and utter sense and I feel it would be universally accepted if it were Mac....

In fairness he is the GW owner, and if it was to be someone within the GW camp, surely it should be himself?

I've not chatted with Mac so I don't know if you would even be interested but none the less, surely this would be acceptable to everyone involved?

Seaneh

tupac_healy wrote: »

Would it not make total and utter sense and I feel it would be universally accepted if it were Mac....

In fairness he is the GW owner, and if it was to be someone within the GW camp, surely it should be himself?

I've not chatted with Mac so I don't know if you would even be interested but none the less, surely this would be acceptable to everyone involved?

I don't think Mac would make a good mod, because I don't think he'd be bothered enough to enforce rules, you'd be as well off not having a mod. I also think his fondness for some posters would bias him.
No offence meant mac, you're a good egg, just think you've enough to be doing running a league never mind a forum with several leagues.

Myrddin

There's no point in nominating potential mods guys, that's not how it works. All the feedback so far has been helpful, & has given plenty to think about

hufpc8w3adnk65

Seaneh wrote: »

I don't think Mac would make a good mod, because I don't think he'd be bothered enough to enforce rules, you'd be as well off not having a mod. I also think his fondness for some posters would bias him.
No offence meant mac, you're a good egg, just think you've enough to be doing running a league never mind a forum with several leagues.

Just cuz I don't post doesn't mean I'm not here reading in the background!

Seaneh

MrMac84 wrote: »

Just cuz I don't post doesn't mean I'm not here reading in the background!

Fair enough, like I said, no offence meant to yourself, you're a good egg.

The Internet

I have to say that bazarakus would make a great mod

Myrddin

Would there be any objections to moving this forum out from under Football & Championship Manager, to become its own full forum (no longer a subforum hidden behind additional clicks)? It would be placed out beside Football & Championship Manager, rather than under it, so would increase exposure to new users etc

KERSPLAT!

Myrddin wrote: »

Would there be any objections to moving this forum out from under Football & Championship Manager, to become its own full forum (no longer a subforum hidden behind additional clicks)? It would be placed out beside Football & Championship Manager, rather than under it, so would increase exposure to new users etc

Great idea, always looking for new managers with more and more GWs opening up

GT_TDI_150

Myrddin wrote: »

Would there be any objections to moving this forum out from under Football & Championship Manager, to become its own full forum (no longer a subforum hidden behind additional clicks)? It would be placed out beside Football & Championship Manager, rather than under it, so would increase exposure to new users etc

no objection here, we are waaaaaay more popular anyway than Football & Championship Manager

hufpc8w3adnk65

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

no objection here, we are waaaaaay more popular anyway than Football & Championship Manager

Not just way but waaaaay... Ha ha


Sounds great hopefully would get a few more managers involved

Seaneh

Myrddin wrote: »

Would there be any objections to moving this forum out from under Football & Championship Manager, to become its own full forum (no longer a subforum hidden behind additional clicks)? It would be placed out beside Football & Championship Manager, rather than under it, so would increase exposure to new users etc

maybe make a "soccer" section of games with this and FM/SM forum as sub forums of that?

Myrddin

Seaneh wrote: »

maybe make a "soccer" section of games with this and FM/SM forum as sub forums of that?

As in a Soccer main forum in the Games category? That might work if there were no sub forums for dedicated things like FIFA, Fantasy Sports Arena & this forum...but since there are, there wouldn't be a whole lot to chat about in a Soccer forum imo.

Seaneh

Myrddin wrote: »

As in a Soccer main forum in the Games category? That might work if there were no sub forums for dedicated things like FIFA, Fantasy Sports Arena & this forum...but since there are, there wouldn't be a whole lot to chat about in a Soccer forum imo.

Ah, that would be an issue....

Well no forum, just a click through like the "simulation" click through before you get the fm/cm etc?

I dunno, was just a thought tbh, trying to make it look neater but sure it wouldn't make much difference to just have a soccer manager board on the simulation tab.

bazarakus

Seaneh wrote: »

Ah, that would be an issue....

Well no forum, just a click through like the "simulation" click through before you get the fm/cm etc?

I dunno, was just a thought tbh, trying to make it look neater but sure it wouldn't make much difference to just have a soccer manager board on the simulation tab.

Quote: Seaneh
maybe make a "sport" section of soccer with this and FM/SM forum as sub forums of that?

Myrddin

Seaneh wrote: »

Ah, that would be an issue....

Well no forum, just a click through like the "simulation" click through before you get the fm/cm etc?

I dunno, was just a thought tbh, trying to make it look neater but sure it wouldn't make much difference to just have a soccer manager board on the simulation tab.

Yep, prob best as is. At least all the sports sim games are all together & easier for new users to find. Appreciate the thoughts though

Al Capwned

Yeah good idea that - anything that increases the exposure can only be a good thing, makes leagues more interesting altogether.

Myrddin

Ok just to keep you all updated:

1) The forum move has been green lit. So this forum will soon become it's own full forum, out in the Sports Sims section, rather than a subforum of Football & Championship Manager. As stated, this should help a little with exposing the forum to new users, as it'll be hid behind less clicks of the menus.

2) Given that the two existing mods here are mods of Football & Championship Manager, they are mods of this subforum too by default. That will change once the forum moves, which would leave it with no mods as it'll be its own forum. In light of that, two new mods will be appointed here, & they are regulars of this forum. They'll be announced as soon as the forum move takes place.

3) I'll be hanging around for a while after the forum move, & the new mods have been appointed, just to ensure the transition goes smoothly & to let the dust settle. The new mods will be calling the shots however, but again I'll be here if needed.

4) The reason behind putting two mods in place, is that it's standard procedure in any fairly active forum to have at least two mods. This means we have sufficient cover in place, & everything isn't falling on the lap of one mod.

I'm not going to name the new mods yet, they have accepted the roles but until the forum has moved they won't be named. Cheers all

KERSPLAT!

Good stuff, congrats to the lads