Jailed travellers need tuition in prison, report claims! - MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST

DenMan

I agree! It would be of tremendous benefit to them imo!


http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/jailed-travellers-need-tuition-in-prison-report-claims-630965.html




MOD NOTE: Please think before you rant. If you just want to be racist, you'll be banned.

shruikan2553

If only they had access to education outside of prison.

I should probably explain before people overreact. Everyone has access to education up to the leaving cert. If you choose not to take part then it is your own choice. It's a bit late to start this when they are already in prison.

toastedpickles

Culture...so on so forth yaddaa yadda

KTRIC

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If only they had access to education outside of prison.

You forgot the sarcasm tags

Jester252

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If only they had access to education outside of prison.

Nice knowing you.

SEPT 23 1989

How about they just obey the fcuking law like the majority of the rest of the country

humanji

Please think before you rant. If you just want to be racist, you'll be banned.

strobe

Its an entirely undisputed fact that prisoners with a low level of education that receive a level of education in prison have a lower recidivism rate than if they don't. There's plenty of data to back it up for anyone that cares to look. On the surface this should be the least controversial thing ever suggested ever, ever. I wonder if this thread will reflect that.

Turtyturd

Just the travellers???....such discrimination.

Little CuChulainn

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If only they had access to education outside of prison.

I should probably explain before people overreact. Everyone has access to education up to the leaving cert. If you choose not to take part then it is your own choice. It's a bit late to start this when they are already in prison.

In fairness though, it's up to parents to ensure their children are educated, it can't really be blamed on the children. When you were a kid would you have chosen to go to school every day?

I'm no fan of the traveller lifestyle but I still believe they should be given opportunities to join society. In fact I don't see why it should be limited to travellers.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Education is not part of their culture so I can't see them agreeing to it.

Muise...

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If only they had access to education outside of prison.

I should probably explain before people overreact. Everyone has access to education up to the leaving cert. If you choose not to take part then it is your own choice. It's a bit late to start this when they are already in prison.

Less choice in prison, so not too late at all. In fact, probably much more effective and rewarding for a captive audience.

Lapin

Is it just Travellers who are offered this tuition or is it open to scumbags from the settled community too?


Or is that a racist question?

whupdedo

I would think that absolutely everyone that goes into prison should be able to further their education, especially travellers as they seem to have the lowest school attendance rates of any section of society

Education equals a step up on the ladder of society, so yes I agree it is the way forward, but it probably would have to be made mandatory for the majority to comply with it

DenMan

In order to help them not re-offend they have to be given better opportunities to succeed! Travellers have barriers to education not just from the settled community but from within their own travelling community too!

end of the road

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

How about they just obey the fcuking law like the majority of the rest of the country

why should they bother as when they do they still get treated like crap anyway by some people, i don't blame them not bothering to be part of society TBH, when they don't people whine, and when they do people don't want to have anything to do with them yet still whine about how they refuse to be part of society, they can't win

strobe

strobe wrote: »

Its an entirely undisputed fact that prisoners with a low level of education that receive a level of education in prison have a lower recidivism rate than if they don't. There's plenty of data to back it up for anyone that cares to look. On the surface this should be the least controversial thing ever suggested ever, ever. I wonder if this thread will reflect that.

You think they'll take a teacher seriously, do you? Do you understand the antipathy felt by the majority of travellers towards education? Perhaps if their kid's schooling was enforced for a change, we mightn't have so many of them ending up in prison in the first place.

All this will end up being is a huge waste of money, if it is implemented.

DenMan

DenMan wrote: »

Travellers have barriers to education not just from the settled community

???

Name one!

Little CuChulainn

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

???

Name one!

Their parents

FearDark

FearDark wrote: »

Are travellers a race?

Anyway shoudln't prisons be doing that anyway, ya know with everybody...It's supposedly "rehabilitation" right?

There are already a ton of educational supports in prison.

DenMan

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

???

Name one!

Barriers from within the travelling community itself. I'm doing a course with the VEC and one of the girls on it is a traveller herself. It's a very patriarchal society and she knew of women who were on training courses and doing very well but were asked to leave by the male head of the family.

drquirky

Not possible for Irish people to be racist towards other Irish people unless those Irish people are from another "race" of which Travellers most certainly aren't!

DenMan

DenMan wrote: »

Barriers from within the travelling community itself. I'm doing a course with the VEC and one of the girls on it is a traveller herself. It's a very patriarchal society and she knew of women who were on training courses and doing very well but were asked to leave by the male head of the family.

You said that travellers face "not just" barriers from the settled community - that is what I was referring to!

In fact, the truth is that the educational barriers faced by travellers come 100% from within their own community.

Maphisto

whupdedo wrote: »

I would think that absolutely everyone that goes into prison should be able to further their education, especially travellers as they seem to have the lowest school attendance rates of any section of society

Education equals a step up on the ladder of society, so yes I agree it is the way forward, but it probably would have to be made mandatory for the majority to comply with it

Makes total sense to me - if we're serious about recidivism (sp) and don't want prison to be a revolving door. It must make prison a much better place to be in.

I was a bit surprised to read in the report

One of the key recommendations to emerge from our research is for the Irish Prison Service to develop an equality policy

FFS these have been around for years but the prison service is going to develop one. Has all of this suddenly just happened or have they only just realised?

mikeym

Travellers are an ethnic minority not a race.

Just to politely point out.

upstairs for coffee

Why does the mod note say race? Irish Travellers are not a race.

D1stant

Lapin wrote: »

Is it just Travellers who are offered this tuition or is it open to scumbags from the settled community too?


Or is that a racist question?

There are plenty of decent people in prisons. Either jailed for a one-off random offence or some trivial thing. - There were over 400 people jailed last year for not paying the TV license for example.

humanji

It's sad that I have to point this out to many of you, but racism also counts against ethnicity. Please stick to the topic and stop arguing semantics.

Pinch Flat

mikeym wrote: »

Travellers are an ethnic minority not a race.

Just to politely point out.

Is it not just the UK (which includes NI) where the "ethnic minority" title is recognised? At the moment in ROI they're a minority group

tritium

Anyone in prison should have educational opportunities.

Pinch Flat

tritium wrote: »

Anyone in prison should have educational opportunities.

I agree. There are plenty of non travellers who are socially disadvantaged and equally uneducated that deserve a chance.

y0ssar1an22

whupdedo wrote: »

I would think that absolutely everyone that goes into prison should be able to further their education, especially travellers as they seem to have the lowest school attendance rates of any section of society

Education equals a step up on the ladder of society, so yes I agree it is the way forward, but it probably would have to be made mandatory for the majority to comply with it

why not do something that ensures they go to school in the first place?

flutered

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

In fairness though, it's up to parents to ensure their children are educated, it can't really be blamed on the children. When you were a kid would you have chosen to go to school every day?

I'm no fan of the traveller lifestyle but I still believe they should be given opportunities to join society. In fact I don't see why it should be limited to travellers.

they are given choices the trouble is they do not advail of them, they deliberatly eensure that their kids do not recieve a decent education, well up to three years ago, since then i dunno, they will marry each other rather than look for a partner outside of their grouping, their lifestile is ssomething i cannot understand how they can afford it i dunno, yet they have no visible means of support.

Maphisto

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

why not do something that ensures they go to school in the first place?

Why not do that as well

Muise...

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Is it not just the UK (which includes NI) where the "ethnic minority" title is recognised? At the moment in ROI they're a minority group

Even if you win the argument that they are not a race, it doesn't mean you can throw them all in a bunch and sneer at them.

Karl Stein

Traveller girls/women are much more receptive to education than the Traveller boys/men.

tony 2 tone

No good will come of this thread.

y0ssar1an22

Maphisto wrote: »

Why not do that as well

I think it would be better to educate a child, rather than a criminal. If we have the money to do both, absolutely. If not, surly the child should take priority?

Lapin

D1stant wrote: »

There are plenty of decent people in prisons. Either jailed for a one-off random offence or some trivial thing. - There were over 400 people jailed last year for not paying the TV license for example.

I know. And the chances are, they won't require tuition.

I'm on about the hundreds of scumbags who do.

Pinch Flat

Muise... wrote: »

Even if you win the argument that they are not a race, it doesn't mean you can throw them all in a bunch and sneer at them.

Legally they are a minority, with the same status as other minority groups. It's a fact here not an argument.

I can't see any inference if sneering in my post, just a factual statement

Maphisto

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

I think it would be better to educate a child, rather than a criminal. If we have the money to do both, absolutely. If not, surly the child should take priority?

Money is always a problem even in the CT years.

Without attacking the prison problem we have that generation on a revolving door of do time -do crime -get caught -do time - do crime ... with no answer for that generation until they're too old to be criminals anymore.

kowloon

When I was in primary school a traveller kid was put in with my class. They couldn't read properly and the teacher couldn't give them anywhere near the amount of time they needed. They got bullied and mocked for both their education and being a traveller.

They could well have a family by now and drawing on their own experience would probably be worried about putting a child into the education system.

Muise...

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Legally they are a minority, with the same status as other minority groups. It's a fact here not an argument.

I can't see any inference if sneering in my post, just a factual statement

There isn't any; but you're taking up the mod note on a technicality rather than its "don't be a dick" content.

artful_codger

Public schools attempt to inculcate in children beliefs and values that will make them contributing members of the society on which Travellers prey. The Travellers do not want their heirs to internalise and become committed to the values of the dominant society.

Pinch Flat

Muise... wrote: »

There isn't any; but you're taking up the mod note on a technicality rather than its "don't be a dick" content.

Ok, we'll have to agree the disagree. I wasn't sneering - surely implying that I am doing so is "being a dick".

Anyway to get back to the OP, I believe that travellers should be given educational opportunities, as with other minorities.

Maphisto

artful_codger wrote: »

Public schools attempt to inculcate in children beliefs and values that will make them contributing members of the society on which Travellers prey. The Travellers do not want their heirs to internalise and become committed to the values of the dominant society.

Just give up then? Invest in extra Gards, security and neighbourhood watch?

topper75

One land, one people, and one law for all. The dream might be far off ... but always worth struggling for.

Use of the emotive word 'racism' by a forum moderator is quite frankly hysterical. The travelling community have the same DNA as the rest of us. Same roots; same race.

Boombastic

how much did it cost for this report?

artful_codger

Maphisto wrote: »

Just give up then? Invest in extra Gards, security and neighbourhood watch?

Forced settlement in local authority estates is the way to go, for so many reasons that would benefit them (access to GP's, Schools etc). No more halting sites.

Muise...

topper75 wrote: »

One land, one people, and one law for all. The dream might be far off ... but always worth struggling for.

Use of the emotive word 'racism' by a forum moderator is quite frankly hysterical. The travelling community have the same DNA as the rest of us. Same roots; same race.

But different attitudes to and experience of education. Some of which might be remedied a small bit by a different approach (tutorial, mentoring) to educating travellers in prison. Which is what this thread is about.

darkpagandeath

Would be interesting to see if the grounds for ethnic status given in the Uk was on Significant DNA divergence to local populations of the traveller community to the country they reside in. If this being the case Majority claim Irish decadency, So in the Republic would there be significant divergence of DNA to the local settled community I highly doubt this. If it’s just cultural differences we have a problem, The wiccan/pagan community here could try and claim ethnic status due to cultural differences, As with a few other groups. I would find it hard to accept if this first group did not recognise this fact, and seems to only claim this status for itself.