The Pro Austerity Crowd

RecordStraight

tayto lover wrote: »

The recession was caused by the well off.

How???

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I think the government need to be very careful with how they are treating the "well off" (could we get a definition for this btw?).

I work in quite a specialised area and myself and nearly all my colleagues are just waiting for our contracts to run out before we leave the country. We are all well educated in areas which the government claims to want to promote. But this constant pandering to the least economically productive groups in society doesn't exactly incentivise us to stay. Sorry to go off on a personal tangent but this is the reality amoung the highly qualified from what I can see at the moment.

KyussBishop

Fúck taxes - look at who is causing the problem with wealth distribution in the first place - the connected/wealthy/powerful folk, doing things like creating property bubbles.

Absolutely no point redistributing wealth downwards with taxes, while they are just accelerating the upward redistribution of wealth in other ways - need to fix that first; the former is a controversial/losing narrative, the latter is a narrative that is more easy to win.

mickydoomsux

KyussBishop wrote: »

the connected/wealthy/powerful folk, doing things like creating property bubbles.

That had nothing to do with John and Jane Doe taking out a €350k mortgage on a ****box in Meath bought off the plans because they simply HAD to buy a house because everyone else was?

Once again it was entirely the fault of The Evil Rich.

road_high

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I think the government need to be very careful with how they are treating the "well off" (could we get a definition for this btw?).

I work in quite a specialised area and myself and nearly all my colleagues are just waiting for our contracts to run out before we leave the country. We are all well educated in areas which the government claims to want to promote. But this constant pandering to the least economically productive groups in society doesn't exactly incentivise us to stay. Sorry to go off on a personal tangent but this is the reality amoung the highly qualified from what I can see at the moment.

I understand completely. The country could basically tax itself out of the market for the pool of educated, skilled and highly renumarated individuals like yourself. It's a global game in many industries, and those with very saleable skills and knowledge can and will up sticks and sell them elsewhere. All to our Irelands loss. Sadly, those that contribute zilch enver seem to leave but stay herre as thay realise how cushy they all have it here, with everything paid for.

KyussBishop

mickydoomsux wrote: »

That had nothing to do with John and Jane Doe taking out a €350k mortgage on a ****box in Meath bought off the plans because they simply HAD to buy a house because everyone else was?

Once again it was entirely the fault of The Evil Rich.

The price of houses, rises with the availability of cheap credit - look to the people responsible for creating the conditions for, for supporting/lobbying in favour of, and for doling out, the cheap credit - and those well-connected enough to be the businessmen on the other end, churning out property to soak up the credit - all of them happen to also be the ones that got rich from it.

road_high

mickydoomsux wrote: »

That had nothing to do with John and Jane Doe taking out a €350k mortgage on a ****box in Meath bought off the plans because they simply HAD to buy a house because everyone else was?

Once again it was entirely the fault of The Evil Rich.

Indeed a bit of personal responsibility for ones own life and financial decisions would go a long way.

longhalloween

KyussBishop wrote: »

Fúck taxes - look at who is causing the problem with wealth distribution in the first place - the connected/wealthy/powerful folk, doing things like creating property bubbles.

Don't forget the rental bubble the wealthy are creating now. Those dastardly rich people!

darkpagandeath

Phoebas wrote: »

I knew the 'well off' were up to something. We should round them up before they strike again.

Yes bakers did have alot to do with the problem or are you saying the banks hands are clean and had no input in the problem. ?

mickydoomsux

KyussBishop wrote: »

The price of houses, rises with the availability of cheap credit - look to the people responsible for creating the conditions for, and for doling out, the cheap credit - and those well-connected enough to be the businessmen on the other end, churning out property to soak up the credit - all of them happen to also be the ones that got rich from it.

People have to avail of this cheap credit that is being doled out.

You don't just wake up one morning with thousands in loans due to the existence of cheap credit in your given economy.

Once again, it is always someone else who is to blame.

KyussBishop

longhalloween wrote: »

Don't forget the rental bubble the wealthy are creating now. Those dastardly rich people!

It's not the wealthy in general, but yes, keeping up the price of houses is contributing to the rent bubble.

'The wealthy' aren't the problem, it's the politically/financially well-connected subset of people, who are powerful enough to create the conditions for, and to participate in profiting from all of this, who are the problem.

They are not one easily identifiable homogenous group.

darkpagandeath

mickydoomsux wrote: »

That had nothing to do with John and Jane Doe taking out a €350k mortgage on a ****box in Meath bought off the plans because they simply HAD to buy a house because everyone else was?

Once again it was entirely the fault of The Evil Rich.

Don't banks take a risk assessment when giving out loans If you could not afford the repayments you should not have got a loan. In the real world I cant just loan people money that cant pay it back, I don't have the luxury of saying I'm integral to the economy and be bailed out for my own mistakes.

longhalloween

KyussBishop wrote: »

They are not one easily identifiable homogenous group.

And that's why they're constantly scapegoated for every unfavorable condition for the last 5 years.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Don't banks take a risk assessment when giving out loans If you could not afford the repayments you should not have got a loan. In the real world I cant just loan people money that cant pay it back

You're right. That's why those seeking loans had to prove they could pay it back. And in the conditions of the time, many people COULD prove that. Unfortunately, conditions changed and now we are where we are.

4Dlolz

There is no such thing as the "pro-austerity crowd" and any remote whisper to the term gives credibility to delusional insanity and crazed one-liners spun out for nothing more than a bid to win votes.

The fact of the matter is, as a country, the government are spending too much money. If you're in severe debt at home - is the solution to go and spend even more money getting yourself into even more debt?! Of course it isn't.

We've spent too much money and we're continuing to spend too much money.

It's time we came down to reality and started to cut and cut BIG.

KyussBishop

mickydoomsux wrote: »

People have to avail of this cheap credit that is being doled out.

You don't just wake up one morning with thousands in loans due to the existence of cheap credit in your given economy.

Once again, it is always someone else who is to blame.

Cheap credit inevitably leads to the price of houses being bid up - this is a well known fact.

Do you want house prices to be bid up, or do you think there should be a responsibility for government and banks, to prevent excessively cheap credit?

The only people who can stop that bidding up of house prices, are banks and the government.

RecordStraight

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes bakers did have alot to do with the problem or are you saying the banks hands are clean and had no input in the problem. ?

So a handful of well-paid people make idiotic decisions which contribute to the bubble, therefore all well-paid people in all industries should be punished?

I've noticed that most crime is committed by less-well-off people - by the same reasoning, they all should go to prison...

darkpagandeath

4Dlolz wrote: »

There is no such thing as the "pro-austerity crowd" and any remote whisper to the term gives credibility to delusional insanity and crazed one-liners spun out for nothing more than a bid to win votes.

The fact of the matter is, as a country, the government are spending too much money. If you're in severe debt at home - is the solution to go and spend even more money getting yourself into even more debt?! Of course it isn't.

We've spent too much money and we're continuing to spend too much money.

It's time we came down to reality and started to cut and cut BIG.

Worked fine in America they are only now cutting back after stimulating the economy for years.

tayto lover

RecordStraight wrote: »

How???

Bankers, Speculators and Developers, accountants, planners and politicians.
How someone could borrow to buy a hotel and then borrow again on the value of that hotel, which was actually owned by the bank, was pure mad.

Hardly caused by the children and low paid workers in fairness.

EazyD

4Dlolz wrote: »

There is no such thing as the "pro-austerity crowd" and any remote whisper to the term gives credibility to delusional insanity and crazed one-liners spun out for nothing more than a bid to win votes.

The fact of the matter is, as a country, the government are spending too much money. If you're in severe debt at home - is the solution to go and spend even more money getting yourself into even more debt?! Of course it isn't.

We've spent too much money and we're continuing to spend too much money.

It's time we came down to reality and started to cut and cut BIG.

What do you propose in terms of cuts?

RecordStraight

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Worked fine in America they are only now cutting back after stimulating the economy for years.

And the have a truly astonishing level of debt they can only sustain as long as people are happy to accept all the dollars they are printing.

RecordStraight

tayto lover wrote: »

Bankers, Speculators and Developers, accountants, planners and politicians.
How someone could borrow to buy a hotel and then borrow again on the value of that hotel, which was actually owned by the bank, was pure mad.

Hardly caused by the children and low paid workers in fairness.

Low paid workers borrowed money too. But you think it's ok to punish people as a group, yeah? Seeing as you propose that doctors and computer programmers pay for the acts of bank management?

darkpagandeath

RecordStraight wrote: »

So a handful of well-paid people make idiotic decisions which contribute to the bubble, therefore all well-paid people in all industries should be punished?

I've noticed that most crime is committed by less-well-off people - by the same reasoning, they all should go to prison...

The banks are now every industry ?

tayto lover

RecordStraight wrote: »

Low paid workers borrowed money too. But you think it's ok to punish people as a group, yeah?

Very few low paid workers even got to talk to the bank manager.

RecordStraight

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The banks are now every industry ?

Wow, a hat-trick!

darkpagandeath

RecordStraight wrote: »

Wow, a hat-trick!

Your not very good at Trolling are you :pac:

RecordStraight

tayto lover wrote: »

Very few low paid workers even got to talk to the bank manager.

Nonsense. Anyone with a pulse could get a mortgage. They were lending to people on the dole, ffs.

Phoebas

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes bakers did have alot to do with the problem [...]

:eek: They were only in it for the dough.

longhalloween

tayto lover wrote: »

Very few low paid workers even got to talk to the bank manager.

How is the recession the fault of bank managers?

RecordStraight

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Your not very good at Trolling are you :pac:

Not in your league. Three times now you've managed to spectacularly misunderstand one of my posts. I'm embarrassed for you.

tayto lover

RecordStraight wrote: »

Nonsense. Anyone with a pulse could get a mortgage. They were lending to people on the dole, ffs.

As I said bloody Bankers. (But the low paid didn't get the loans despite what you try to imply).