Why do you want/not want to get married?

pwurple

Deleted User wrote: »

Couple of signed documents - most of which I do not pretend to understand. As I said - it really helps that one of the girls is a Doctorate in Law. Though we often joke that she probably hid things in the legaleese small print that we will never know about.

You're more trusting than I would be anyway!

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

You're more trusting than I would be anyway!

Love tends to do that to people I trust them implicitly.

Dravokivich

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Tax credits are pretty irrelevant now anyway except in certain situations. Bigger issue is inheritance and guardian rights.

It bothers me that this is assumed through marriage and you have to go out of your way to specify it without both parents being married to each other.

I've never had much of an interest in going through with it myself. No particular reason why/why not, just isn't something I think of.

Pawwed Rig

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've never had much of an interest in going through with it myself. No particular reason why/why not, just isn't something I think of.

When you are in a good relationship it would seem like a waste of time to goto the effort of getting the legal work done.
When the relationship starts to turn sour it may rock the boat too much to suggest setting up the guardianship as the other half will then know you are contemplating a potential break up.
Then the relationship breaks and you find any relationship with your children to be totally at the discretion of the mother.

Chattastrophe!

I think what he meant is that the marriage thing isn't something he ever thought of, as opposed to the guardianship thing!

Wibbs

osaurus wrote: »

I'm unsure about marriage. I'm 28 now and not in a relationship at the moment. When I was younger I liked the idea of it. To love someone till death do you part. Idealistic stuff really. Then as I grew older and started working I realilsed it's not all as rosy as I first thought. People who I worked with were married. Some happily, a lot not so. Many cheating on their significant others. This was throughout different jobs and countries. The naivety was shocked out of me.

My experiences have lead me to question the whole idea of marriage and what it means in today's world. From my perspective it doesn't really mean a whole lot. It also raises the question do you ever really know someone? So many people I know have been fúcked over by their wife/husband ranging from cheating to draining bank accounts and having their house repossessed due to bills not being paid.

Divorce rates are creeping up also. Assets being split, custody over children and more often than not sided with the woman. The man usually comes off worse. I don't know if I'd get into a 'contract' where if it were to go sour I'd come out of it at a huge loss - never mind money or any of that. Potential kids and visitation rights would be more important. These are all hypothetical anyway.

Leaning more towards not getting married but things change so who knows. 5 years down the line it could all change.

This pretty much. When I was in my 20's and I'd been in love and all that stuff was aiming towards marriage, I may well have considered it, now with a few years under my belt not nearly so much.

The thing is do I know some good marriages where both grow as people as a result, however against that I know and have known many more who were at best treading water(the majority IMHO and IME) or at worst very unhealthy for one or both. The majority of relationships tend towards failure before we get near the marriage stage, so while the decision to go as far as marriage would appear to have more legs than the average relationship, I dunno how well that holds after the first couple of years pass. Some seem to get into it for fear of loneliness down the line, but a so so marriage can be a bloody lonely place.

Again IMHO and IME quite a lot get hitched to an age timeframe. A game of relationship musical chairs and when the music stops whoever's hand you're holding is the wife/husband. I saw this quite a lot in my 30's. Moreso among women, but men do it too. Where a settle down age is reached and a want/need/desperation[delete as applicable] kicks in. Regularly saw people who had gone out with people in the past where a few realtionships failed for no obvious reason, yet at 35 one "magically" held. A case of whoever's standing there at the right time in play. Many were pretty rushed too and more than once previous standards were dropped with it. I've even seen "auctions" of a sort where two or three people were in play at once and one was chosen as the best marriage option and the headlong, even unseemly rush to the altar or office ensued.

Plus I'd add my own foibles in this. While I have gone out with some really sound women, I also have a habit of falling for the most neurotic and/or self centered in the room and being temporarily blinded by that and while blinded my BS detector is offline. Not good.

So at least for me on the balance sheet of risk and reward, marriage seems like a really risky venture. A case of playing Russian roulette with two chambers loaded. I/we could get lucky, but...

Pawwed Rig

skallywag wrote: »

If you mean in general, i.e. the (preferred!) scenario in which I am not dead, then my partner would have full rights I assume.

No I mean if you were to die who would look after your daughter? If unmarried the man does not have guardian rights unless specifically applied.

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

I think what he meant is that the marriage thing isn't something he ever thought of, as opposed to the guardianship thing!

Well he bolded the guardian rights part so I would assume that is the part he wanted to highlight
Not getting in the middle of something here though

snaphook

I would prefer a very long engagement myself.

Chattastrophe!

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Well he bolded the guardian rights part so I would assume that is the part he wanted to highlight
Not getting in the middle of something here though

Oh I totally understand, I'd have interpreted that post the exact same way as you did, because of the highlighting, except that I know him and knew what he meant! So that's why I was trying to clarify it on his behalf.

While I wouldn't be into marriage, I'd be very much on the same page as you as regards getting the guardianship paperwork sorted. It's so important. In fact I have it as a reminder for himself on a whiteboard "to-do" list in the kitchen! Whether he ever ends up getting round to doing it is another story ... :rolleyes:

folan

because i love someone and they love me

pwurple

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

While I wouldn't be into marriage, I'd be very much on the same page as you as regards getting the guardianship paperwork sorted. It's so important. In fact I have it as a reminder for himself on a whiteboard "to-do" list in the kitchen! Whether he ever ends up getting round to doing it is another story ... :rolleyes:

That has backfired horribly for a few men. There was a case recently here where the mother died in childbirth, father unable to consent for the new baby to get emergency treatment, had to call the woman's mothere.

Standman

I used to want to get married when I was younger but as the years passed by, my experience of married couples really had worn down my naive notion of what marriage was and what it meant.

It seems to me now that most people get married because it's the next box to tick on their life-checklist.

'Degree --> Career --> Marriage --> Kids', seems to be the standard issue blueprint.

beks101

Standman wrote: »

I used to want to get married when I was younger but as the years passed by, my experience of married couples really had worn down my naive notion of what marriage was and what it meant.

It seems to me now that most people get married because it's the next box to tick on their life-checklist.

'Degree --> Career --> Marriage --> Kids', seems to be the standard issue blueprint.

Yeah, kind of this. It can be hard not to be cynical, especially when you're smack in the centre of the textbook "marrying age" with couples rushing down the aisle left, right and centre.

I think during my childhood I was exposed to quite a few of these "good old Catholic marriages" in my wider family, friends' parents etc - couples for whom divorce never was or would be an option because of its shameful (or illegal) connotations. But the love had very obviously dissipated and what you had was two adults who actively resented each other and had nothing resembling a happy loving relationship.

Since I've hit my twenties it's been exposure to a different type of marriage - the rushed ones that follow a pre-determined path as Wibbs described above, and/or the jump-in-jump-out ones with a short shelf life (found out recently a 29 year old mate whose wedding I attended this time last year has started divorce proceedings), and then the predominance of cheating and aRsing around that I hear or see virtually everywhere - office affairs and no-one bats an eye, night away with the lads/ladies and 'no-one needs to know' . It's just constant undermining and mockery of the institution of marriage at every corner and amid all that, it's hard to see exactly its worth.

And then there's the fact that the very nature of romantic love is that it's circumstantial and conditional and can really vanish as quickly as it appears, no matter how deep you think it runs. And I say that as someone who is loved up with all the trimmings. Making a 'life-long' investment in someone will always run its risks, but with people rushing in when they're clearly still in the infatuation stage and there's an easier 'out' now than there ever was; or panicking their way down the aisle because married-by-30-babies-by-32 is more important to them than whoever happens to be standing in front of them - it's hard to decipher exactly what the point of marriage is anymore. Or what exactly it means outside of the tax break and guardianship issues, which makes it all seem about as romantic as a hole in the head.

And therein lies perhaps the most depressing post I've ever written on boards.

folan

folan wrote: »

because i love someone and they love me

You may be more restating the OPs question than answering the OPs question here. Clearly for many the two do not correlate as closely as your re-statement might suggest.

Pawwed Rig

folan wrote: »

because i love someone and they love me

Love is probably the worst reason to get married as it is an irrational state. Marriage is a legal contract. That is all it is. A lawyer would always advise against entering into a legal contract for emotional reasons.

Another reason many people get married is that the law requires them to in order to stay together. Visa restrictions often will not allow an unmarried couple to stay together.

folan

@taxAHcruel: my answer is perfectly valid as an answer to the threads question, and the first post.

@Pawwed Rig: Marriage to you may mean a legal contract, but that is not "all it is". To me and my future wife, it is far more. it is protecting each other, solidifying our love and commitment through what may come in future. it is unifying.

call it emotional if you wish. emotion is as important as anything else.

Pawwed Rig

folan wrote: »

@Pawwed Rig: Marriage to you may mean a legal contract, but that is not "all it is". To me and my future wife, it is far more. it is protecting each other, solidifying our love and commitment through what may come in future. it is unifying.

call it emotional if you wish. emotion is as important as anything else.

Yeah I am not criticising as that is the reason many people get married. The problem is that emotion is fleeting whereas a marriage could last 70 years. You can do all the things you say without signing the contract.

folan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You can do all the things you say without signing the contract.

i know. nothing about our daily lives will change a month after the wedding.

NoCrackHaving

The only thing I'll say about this is I wish people would disassociate the church and Catholicism from marriage. There's no legal need to get married in a Church if you don't want to, just go a registry office or somewhere else legal to host marriages.

Tombo2001

Its funny how people are unable to think outside the box, and I'd very much include myself in that....

Consider the following statement

"I've been with my partner for 7 years, we know we love each other and we dont need a marriage certificate to prove it"

Yes that is correct. But that is not the reason why a lot of people get married.

If you have been in a relationship with a woman for 5 years or more, then chances are you will want to have kids.

If you've never discussed it with her, then you are in denial and you should discuss it straight away.

If you have kids together, then as a man you should get yourself married asap. As mentioned earlier, for guardianship and inheritance reasons. Legally, you are in a much better position being married.

Its a bit like that old nugget about the parents who dont want to get their kids baptised......fair enough, stick to your moral principals about the church and all that, hats off for taking the high ground.......but you've just reduced by 80% the amount of schools your kid can get into.

folan

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

The only thing I'll say about this is I wish people would disassociate the church and Catholicism from marriage. There's no legal need to get married in a Church if you don't want to, just go a registry office or somewhere else legal to host marriages.

Humanist ceremonies are very nice weddings, allowing for a lot of customisation. Personalises the wedding to the couple.

Tombo2001

folan wrote: »

@taxAHcruel: my answer is perfectly valid as an answer to the threads question, and the first post.

@Pawwed Rig: Marriage to you may mean a legal contract, but that is not "all it is". To me and my future wife, it is far more. it is protecting each other, solidifying our love and commitment through what may come in future. it is unifying.

call it emotional if you wish. emotion is as important as anything else.

Yes but you shouldnt mix up opinion and fact. Thats your opinion about the reason to be married.

Not everyone shares that opinion.

However.....the legal reasons to be married, if you have children together, are very much fact.

folan

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Yes but you shouldnt mix up opinion and fact. Thats your opinion about the reason to be married.

Not everyone shares that opinion.

However.....the legal reasons to be married, if you have children together, are very much fact.

I'm not. I've answered the OPs question. opinions, facts aside, thats all i have done.

Tombo2001

folan wrote: »

I'm not. I've answered the OPs question. opinions, facts aside, thats all i have done.

Fair enough, I take it back.

FutureGuy

I was at a wedding recently and it helped us to cement the belief of both myself and my fiancee that getting married outside the church is the best thing for us.

An hour sermon from the priest telling us he pities anyone that doesn't get married in front of God, that such people have no hope and how the registry part of the ceremony is to satisfy Kenny and his cronies.

Neither of us need to get married. We trust each other completely. Without question. However, as mentioned my many people here, marraige comes with alot of security. Registry office, immediate family, meal. No stress, no priest telling us what to do. Mum does the wedding cake. Sister in law takes the photos. No other presents. Perfect.

Dravokivich

pwurple wrote: »

That has backfired horribly for a few men. There was a case recently here where the mother died in childbirth, father unable to consent for the new baby to get emergency treatment, had to call the woman's mothere.

Well that's a completely separate discussion. It's a blatant lack of recognition towards who the father is between an unmarried couple, while there is an assumption between a married couple. You can't even do the gaurdianship until the kid's birth is registered, which I was surprised to find out doesn't seem to be done in maternity hospitals any more. But I would not get married, just to be confirmed as the father of my son or any future children I may have. Which is the only answer to incident you relayed here.


@Pawwed Rig, yeah, that second line you quoted was more geared towards the topic itself. I probably should of had it before I quoted you to avoid the confusion.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Its a bit like that old nugget about the parents who dont want to get their kids baptised......fair enough, stick to your moral principals about the church and all that, hats off for taking the high ground.......but you've just reduced by 80% the amount of schools your kid can get into.

Which should be challenged, not permitted to continue by rushing a kid through a baptism "just because." And it's not about taking the high ground either, it's about self determination of one's right to, or not to follow a religion.

folan

FutureGuy wrote: »

Neither of us need to get married. We trust each other completely. Without question. However, as mentioned my many people here, marraige comes with alot of security. Registry office, immediate family, meal. No stress, no priest telling us what to do. Mum does the wedding cake. Sister in law takes the photos. No other presents. Perfect.

sounds lovely. Congrats!

Pawwed Rig

FutureGuy wrote: »

Neither of us need to get married. We trust each other completely. Without question. However, as mentioned my many people here, marraige comes with alot of security. Registry office, immediate family, meal. No stress, no priest telling us what to do. Mum does the wedding cake. Sister in law takes the photos. No other presents. Perfect.

I did it in a church as it was the easiest option for us. To have a civil ceremony we would have needed to wait another 6 months or so (any my wife wanted the church anyway). The priest was an absolute gent. Didn't do any of the fire and brimstone stuff and was very accommodating for anything we wanted. He was a good laugh too.

littlevillage

..having trouble saving post .. will try again :-(

folan

folan wrote: »

@taxAHcruel: my answer is perfectly valid as an answer to the threads question, and the first post.

Not really given the Thread question and first post is an either or question and you answered it starting with a "because". So what your answer even is is not clear. It could be:

1) I WANT to get married - because i love someone and they love me

2) I do NOT want to get married - because i love someone and they love me

So you have not EVEN answered the question. At all. It would be like me saying "Do you like Black or White better" and you saying "Yes".

But that was not my point. The point was that whichever it is - 1 or 2 - the answer you give on the right of the "-" does not follow automatically from what is on the left of it. So in this regard you have _also_ not actually answered the question.