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Which is better? Vaping or Smoking?

  • 08-05-2014 10:53pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭


    I could post this in the dedicated forums, but I suppose I'm looking for unbiased opinions. From people who are neither smokers or vapers... For those unsure of the term, a vaper is someone who uses an electronic liquid cigarette.. A smoker is a tobacco smoker.. I'm not going to give any opinion because I vape and I used to smoke


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    I smoke, and I don't like vaping - found it to be worse than smokes in terms of coughs etc. Also vape-juice or whatever it's called is made in china, out of diesel and weed-killer. Ok, it might not be, but fcuked if there's any rules saying it can't be..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Smaping.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭Hotale.com


    A smoker's a joker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 dashcam5586


    As a non smoker I dont mind vaping at all. There's no smell at all and you would hardly even notice people doing it indoors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Fapping


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    Voking


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Brego888


    How do you define better? Healthier, better nicotine hit, cheaper, appearance, impact on others etc.?

    Personally I'd just give up both.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Neither is better there both for mugs.

    Quitting is for winners when it comes to smoking/vaping nicotine.

    *20 years a nicotine addict, free 2 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    I smoke, and I don't like vaping - found it to be worse than smokes in terms of coughs etc. Also vape-juice or whatever it's called is made in china, out of diesel and weed-killer. Ok, it might not be, but fcuked if there's any rules saying it can't be..

    How long did you vape for? And how long were you previously smoking for?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    I'd like a larger range of psychoactive drugs to be available in vaping. I don't smoke, but I could dig a caffeine vape.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    What do you mean by "better"?

    I think smoking is better because smokers look like dragon pups soon ready to belch forth real flame.

    While vapers sounds too much like vipers. And the process of vaping is so mechanical. Really, if you are poisoning yourself, do it in style!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Vaping is less harmful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭Lucifer MorningStar


    I used to be a vaper but now I'm a smoker


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Muise... wrote: »
    Vaping is less harmful.
    Depends where you're sticking it really. :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Muise... wrote: »
    Vaping is less harmful.

    I don't believe that's been proven scientifically. Open to correction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    keith16 wrote: »
    I don't believe that's been proven scientifically. Open to correction.

    The list of ingredients are propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine.. Which can be found in tesco, so I wouldn't think it's more harmful than smoking, obviously none is better, but 2-3 natural substances versus a thousand and two poisons wins my vote..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    keith16 wrote: »
    I don't believe that's been proven scientifically. Open to correction.

    It's the smoke that causes damage, not the nicotine it carries. Replace the carrier with steam -or patches or gum - and you are reducing the harm by a large factor. What damage is caused by these alternative carriers is not yet known, but it is known to be less than smoke.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    victor8600 wrote: »
    What do you mean by "better"?

    I think smoking is better because smokers look like dragon pups soon ready to belch forth real flame.

    While vapers sounds too much like vipers. And the process of vaping is so mechanical. Really, if you are poisoning yourself, do it in style!

    It's not very mechanical to fill it with a bit of liquid and push and hold a button for a a few seconds, the reason I like it is mostly the smell and taste are better, my lungs and body feel better, without the torment of dying for a smoke. They're a helpful bridge to the smoker who wants to quit, but like I said I'll refrain from saying much because I do both.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Muise... wrote: »
    Vaping is less harmful.

    Yeah, it's probably good for you.. how do you know? Have people been vaping for 20 years? It takes 20 years for a smoker to be fecked on average, so I'll judge vaping in 2030, to give it a fair chance.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Muise... wrote: »
    It's the smoke that causes damage, not the nicotine it carries. Replace the carrier with steam -or patches or gum - and you are reducing the harm by a large factor. What damage is caused by these alternative carriers is not yet known, but it is known to be less than smoke.

    Nicotine is harmful as well, but it's not what causes cancer and other respiratory issues analog cigarettes cause... It's just a plant at the end of it.. An extract anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Yeah, it's probably good for you.. how do you know? Have people been vaping for 20 years? It takes 20 years for a smoker to be fecked on average, so I'll judge vaping in 2030, to give it a fair chance.

    Em, because my doctor and pharmacist told me, based on their reading of papers by experts and stuff...

    I said less harmful, not a fcuking elixir of life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Yeah, it's probably good for you.. how do you know? Have people been vaping for 20 years? It takes 20 years for a smoker to be fecked on average, so I'll judge vaping in 2030, to give it a fair chance.

    It doesn't have a list of poisons, for one. And yes that has been tested


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Vaping has been a thing for 3 years, no known deaths as of yet, or any effects to the people who do it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    It's surely down to personal choice? People have no excuse not to be aware of the harmful effects and risks of smoking, and only a fool would argue otherwise.

    That being said, I tried various vaping kits, and I still don't get the same satisfaction I get from smoking. It's like expecting a person should give up sex and substitute having sex for masturbation - the chemical release effect is similar, but you'd still prefer to be having sex.

    I'd sooner just enjoy a smoke than sucking on a piece of plastic. If I want that, I'd smoke a pipe. I also don't get the same stress relieving effect from vaping that I do from smoking.

    Die of increased stress, or risk dying of smoking related illness... I'm going to die eventually so I may as well take pleasure while I can enjoy it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    It's surely down to personal choice? People have no excuse not to be aware of the harmful effects and risks of smoking, and only a fool would argue otherwise.
    That being said, I tried various vaping kits, and I still don't get the same satisfaction I get from smoking. It's like expecting a person should give up sex and substitute having sex for masturbation - the chemical release effect is similar, but you'd still prefer to be having sex.

    I'd sooner just enjoy a smoke than sucking on a piece of plastic. If I want that, I'd smoke a pipe. I also don't get the same stress relieving effect from vaping that I do from smoking.

    Die of increased stress, or risk dying of smoking related illness... I'm going to die eventually so I may as well take pleasure while I can enjoy it.

    True, although I'd like to live a bit longer than 40 just so I could smoke, I'm comptenplating having a cigarette right now, but for my baby and my girlfriend I'm not going to do that, but of course just because I do something doesn't mean everyone will, at least you'll admit why you smoke, most (and I was one) just said ah sure I don't know


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Claregirl


    I was a heavy smoker for 20+ years and had tried everything to give up acupuncture, hypnotherapy, patches, gum, Alan Carr, pills you name it I tried it with no success - I took the plunge about 3 months ago and bought a vaping kit and have been smoke free since then :D

    Main advantages: I no longer smell, I have more money and I'm starting to feel much better (I'm not out of breath at the top of the stairs anymore)

    I aim to reduce the nicotine strength gradually until I'm no longer using nicotine and then hopefully ditch the hand mouth habit all together!

    My main concern is the small amount of uncertainty on the label on my fix can I trust it? To this end I only purchase from local suppliers that I've built up a relationship with and hope they're not importing shi*e from China.

    I think regulation is required solely to ensure that the e-liquid contains what it says (much like food labeling) I really don't see the benefit of regulation by tobacco / pharmacy - this will only drive up the costs and negate one of the main reasons for people switching from smoking to e-cigs / vaping.

    The hysteria being whipped up in the media in relation to e-cigs / vaping concerns me also - who's driving this?? Is it tobacco industry seeing large numbers of smokers changing to vaping or is it Govt losing vast amounts of revenue from lost excise? The HSE ban is a case in point - absolutely daft in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    Smoking or vaping?

    This question is akin to asking someone if they want the choice of either butter or margarine on a shit sandwich!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    keith16 wrote: »
    I don't believe that's been proven scientifically. Open to correction.
    There's nicotine in potatoes.

    =-=

    I can vape before I goto the gym, and it won't affect how far I can push myself.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    As a smoker, if I was trying to quit (and I intend to) I'd rather just go cold turkey. I've seen people become completely reliant on ecigs or those vapers, and having tried them they're just not for me. I know a guy who's ecig is permanently attached to his hand. If I'm going to stop smoking I'll be stopping entirely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    As a smoker, if I was trying to quit (and I intend to) I'd rather just go cold turkey. I've seen people become completely reliant on ecigs or those vapers, and having tried them they're just not for me. I know a guy who's ecig is permanently attached to his hand. If I'm going to stop smoking I'll be stopping entirely.

    That's because he has tricked himself into thinking he wants to quit, when he doesn't, some people switch just to say "sure this is better" better is quitting altogether, but there's a 90% success rate of quitting altogether with vaping opposed to "cold turkey" or patches etc. the brain misses the nicotine, the hand and mouth misses the smoke, the e-cig replaces the cigarette, and if your incentive is to quit, you start off with the strength you'd usually use then drop slowly and eventually to nicotine free liquid, to nothing all together. Sure not everyone's gonna quit, but even if you decide to stay on e cigs at least your not puffing in rat poison and arsenic etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Claregirl wrote: »
    I was a heavy smoker for 20+ years and had tried everything to give up acupuncture, hypnotherapy, patches, gum, Alan Carr, pills you name it I tried it with no success - I took the plunge about 3 months ago and bought a vaping kit and have been smoke free since then :D

    Main advantages: I no longer smell, I have more money and I'm starting to feel much better (I'm not out of breath at the top of the stairs anymore)

    I aim to reduce the nicotine strength gradually until I'm no longer using nicotine and then hopefully ditch the hand mouth habit all together!

    My main concern is the small amount of uncertainty on the label on my fix can I trust it? To this end I only purchase from local suppliers that I've built up a relationship with and hope they're not importing shi*e from China.

    I think regulation is required solely to ensure that the e-liquid contains what it says (much like food labeling) I really don't see the benefit of regulation by tobacco / pharmacy - this will only drive up the costs and negate one of the main reasons for people switching from smoking to e-cigs / vaping.

    The hysteria being whipped up in the media in relation to e-cigs / vaping concerns me also - who's driving this?? Is it tobacco industry seeing large numbers of smokers changing to vaping or is it Govt losing vast amounts of revenue from lost excise? The HSE ban is a case in point - absolutely daft in my opinion.

    Both. The tobacco companies want it to stop being sold by 3rd parties so they can limit what you get and charge a fortune. A win-win for them, if e-liquid is expensive you'll say **** it sure I may as well smoke the fags, or vice versa, government can tax it then too. Absolute bollox and it really annoys me. Something that could've been brilliant ruined by large tobacco companies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Calibos


    Usually when someone mentions the phrase, 'Big Pharma', I want to walk away before I say something I shouldn't. However in the case of ecigs they are arguably a bigger problem than the tobacco industry. They stand to lose a fortune on their useless smoking cessation products never mind the drug treatments for smoking related diseases.

    So when you combine these vested interest lobbies with an ill informed public and the 'nicotine is bad but caffeine isn't' brigade and present them to a Ministers for health with departments of finance breathing down their neck muttering, '4 billion a year lost customs and VAT revenue!!'

    Well you end up with, "we don't know if they are safe...just because the propylene glycol didn't kill millions over the last few decades in medical inhalers or hospital ventilation systems doesnt mean it won't start now.....sure until we can prove its no more harmful than a lungful of urban air we better slow down its adoption as much as possible. Better the devil we know with 2000 chemicals some very harmful and carcinogenic, some cannaboid and benzo precursors etc than the product we are not sure of the safety of. Until further testing the margin of error is too great. What if statistically ecigs are only 100 times safer than cigarettes instead of 1000 times!?!?

    If it didn't affect the health of millions it'd be funny :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    found it to be worse than smokes in terms of coughs etc. Also vape-juice or whatever it's called is made in china, out of diesel and weed-killer. Ok, it might not be, but fcuked if there's any rules saying it can't be..

    The coughs are due to the transitiom of coming off cigarettes, , you're just clearing all the ****e from your lungs

    Not all juice is made in China, only cheap ****e. There are numerous irish vendors making juice to pharmaceutical standards.
    Diesel and weed killer would give no benefit to anybody, in fact diesel and weed killer are more expensive than VG and PG so using them as agents makes no economical sense for any manufacturer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭KungPao


    Definitely something fishy going on with the negative stories and banning of vaping by certain bodies. The tobacco and pharma industries stand to lose a fortune and have serious clout so i think they are up to something alright.

    I quit smoking nearly 2 months ago...smoking cigarettes from 16-31 then rolling tobacco for a couple of years...then was just fed up with it. Fed up rolling, fed up stinking, was starting to look like a smoker with the bad tired skin, fed up with always worried about having my next fix, yellow teeth, yellow fingers, and most of all worried about the health. Quit around 30 and it's like you never smoked so they say, but keep at and you start doing serious damage...

    Anyway, when i decided to quit I didn't even consider traditional NRT. It just doesn't work very well. Gum, patches, lozenges, inhalers etc...the dose is so low and you don't get any 'hit' to speak of. So if people start abandoning Nicorette etc for vaping just think of the lost revenues....

    The banning of vaping by HSE, Dublin Bus, most airlines is crazy imo.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    The harm from smoking is not from the nicotine jeez. Nicotine isnt that bad for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Calibos


    Spunge wrote: »
    The harm from smoking is not from the nicotine jeez. Nicotine isnt that bad for you.

    It's not good for you either and increases blood pressure but to a similar degree to caffeine. You don't see the sale of red bull to kids being banned.(not that it's recommended). There is however an easily ingestable fatal dose of nicotine whereas you'd puke before you drank enough red bull to kill you.

    However when I hear someone go on about the evil poison nicotine while they gulp their expresso and munch on their tomato bruschetta I feel like banging my head on the table. (Tomatoes and aubergines have tonnes of nicotine in them as well as a myriad of other fruits and vegetables) it's usually the same type of person that would 'like' a Facebook campaign to ban the killer chemical compound called diHydrogen MonOxide.

    IMHO, the only medicalisation of ecigs that should be supported is the advice to keep the bottles of juice in a locked medicine cabinet away from young children along with the paracetamol. If a kid swallowed a 50ml bottle of high nicotine juice it could be fatal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    Calibos wrote: »
    It's not good for you either and increases blood pressure but to a similar degree to caffeine. You don't see the sale of red bull to kids being banned.(not that it's recommended)

    However when I hear someone go on about the evil poison nicotine while they gulp their expresso and munch on their tomato bruschetta I feel like banging my head on the table. (Tomatoes and aubergines have tonnes of nicotine in them....)

    yeah caffeine id say is way worse. You can get seriously bad side effects if you take too much caffeine, like 1-2g.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    About a month go I saw a schoolkid vaping. I found it hilarious. Kids were smoking due to peer pressure, now they are vaping because it's "better" for'em. :pac:

    I'm still curious over the amount of nicotine one would consume vaping, compared to smoking.
    Spunge wrote: »
    The harm from smoking is not from the nicotine jeez. Nicotine isnt that bad for you.

    I'm not approaching it as "Nicotine is bad for you," I'm looking at it from the point of view that it's often referenced that nicotine is the addictive substance within cigarettes. Which is why people smoke, the issue with getting them off smoking, is to get them off nicotine and you don't achieve that by giving them unquantified doses of it.


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    I smoke, and I don't like vaping - found it to be worse than smokes in terms of coughs etc. Also vape-juice or whatever it's called is made in china, out of diesel and weed-killer. Ok, it might not be, but fcuked if there's any rules saying it can't be..

    This post was sponsored by Lucky strike!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    About a month go I saw a schoolkid vaping. I found it hilarious. Kids were smoking due to peer pressure, now they are vaping because it's "better" for'em. :pac:

    I'm still curious over the amount of nicotine one would consume vaping, compared to smoking.

    When im trying to quit i probably get way more nicotine than when im smokng. Whether that be gum, inhaler or e-cig, i absolutely rape the **** out of them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    I find just regular breathing works best for me. Less cancerlicious.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Spunge wrote: »
    When im trying to quit i probably get way more nicotine than when im smokng. Whether that be gum, inhaler or e-cig, i absolutely rape the **** out of them.

    Yeah, that's what I was wondering along the lines of, not to the equivalent of a cigarette itself, but the actual amount they'd take in over a period of vaping, compared to a period of smoking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    If I'm going to stop smoking I'll be stopping entirely.
    Why do you want to quit? Health reasons? Vape. Money reasons? Vape. The smell? Vape.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    Yeah, that's what I was wondering along the lines of, not to the equivalent of a cigarette itself, but the actual amount they'd take in over a period of vaping, compared to a period of smoking.

    i think the sweet sweet tar and other carcinogens in a cig make up for the possible less nicotine you do intake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭lau1247


    Personally I don't smoke and I think both are harmful in some shape or form but if I have to choose between the two option, I'd go with vaping.

    It was only when my wife becomes pregnant that I noticed that everywhere we go, as soon as we got out of a building/premise, there are people smoking by the entrance and there is nothing you can do to avoid getting a faceful of second hand smoke.

    So if smokers want to kill themselves over time then go ahead by all means but do it such that it affects them only.

    West Dublin, ☀️ 7.83kWp ⚡5.66 kWp South West, ⚡2.18 kWp North East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭pillphil


    KungPao wrote: »
    Anyway, when i decided to quit I didn't even consider traditional NRT. It just doesn't work very well. Gum, patches, lozenges, inhalers etc...the dose is so low and you don't get any 'hit' to speak of.

    I found the patches to be fairly good. Smoked for 10 years, did a month on the strongest (24mg) patch. Didn't need to continue the next 2 months on the weaker patches. Just started forgetting to put it on in the morning.

    I stopped drinking before I stopped smoking, I don't think I'd have stayed off them if I hadn't. I had a few drinks a few weeks ago and couldn't resist the urge to smoke. A few more like that and I'd be a smoker again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Calibos


    From the getgo initial studies showed that the blood nicotine levels in vapers were significantly lower than the smokers in the test groups and that the levels in the smokers peaked at their much higher level almost straight away whereas in the vapers it took 30 minutes or so of vaping for them to reach their peak levels.

    The theory is that the particulate size of combusted tobacco smoke is much smaller than the particulate size of vapourised ecig juice. That the former can be inhaled down to the deepest tiniest branches of aveola in the lungs whereas the latter can't. The lungs can thus more efficiently extract the nicotine from smoke than vaper with every breath.

    In terms of addiction potential. Someone else will have to confirm and I'm not sure whether it's empirical or anecdotal evidence but vapers have found its a lot easier to give up vaping than smoking. It's theorised based on studies on rats that it turns out the main addictive compounds in cigarettes were actually the cannaboids and benzo like compounds in cigarette smoke that gave smokers their relaxing addictive satisfaction while smoking a cigarette niot the nicotine at all. In rat addiction studies where rats trigger a lever to deliver their reward, they showed no addictive tendencies when given pure nicotine but showed the expected classic addiction tendencies when given nicotine via cigarette smoke.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭rovoagho


    Saw a guy vaping in the street again yesterday. Makes me laugh my hole off every time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Calibos


    rovoagho wrote: »
    Saw a guy vaping in the street again yesterday. Makes me laugh my hole off every time.

    Picks distinguishing feature of previous poster. Laughs my hole off. Tells the internet.

    Funnily enough there was an appropriate Picard 'why the Fcuk' meme in the YLYL yesterday along the lines of 'why the fcuk are you laughing at the sweating fat guy in the Gym when he is actually trying to do something productive to lose the weight....'

    BTW, my sig shows why I don't give a flying fcuk what I look like vaping on the street not that I'd give a fcuk what you thought anyway.


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