Which is better? Vaping or Smoking?

Snake · 09-05-2014 02:13AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

As a smoker, if I was trying to quit (and I intend to) I'd rather just go cold turkey. I've seen people become completely reliant on ecigs or those vapers, and having tried them they're just not for me. I know a guy who's ecig is permanently attached to his hand. If I'm going to stop smoking I'll be stopping entirely.

That's because he has tricked himself into thinking he wants to quit, when he doesn't, some people switch just to say "sure this is better" better is quitting altogether, but there's a 90% success rate of quitting altogether with vaping opposed to "cold turkey" or patches etc. the brain misses the nicotine, the hand and mouth misses the smoke, the e-cig replaces the cigarette, and if your incentive is to quit, you start off with the strength you'd usually use then drop slowly and eventually to nicotine free liquid, to nothing all together. Sure not everyone's gonna quit, but even if you decide to stay on e cigs at least your not puffing in rat poison and arsenic etc

Snake · 09-05-2014 02:16AM

Claregirl wrote: »

I was a heavy smoker for 20+ years and had tried everything to give up acupuncture, hypnotherapy, patches, gum, Alan Carr, pills you name it I tried it with no success - I took the plunge about 3 months ago and bought a vaping kit and have been smoke free since then

Main advantages: I no longer smell, I have more money and I'm starting to feel much better (I'm not out of breath at the top of the stairs anymore)

I aim to reduce the nicotine strength gradually until I'm no longer using nicotine and then hopefully ditch the hand mouth habit all together!

My main concern is the small amount of uncertainty on the label on my fix can I trust it? To this end I only purchase from local suppliers that I've built up a relationship with and hope they're not importing shi*e from China.

I think regulation is required solely to ensure that the e-liquid contains what it says (much like food labeling) I really don't see the benefit of regulation by tobacco / pharmacy - this will only drive up the costs and negate one of the main reasons for people switching from smoking to e-cigs / vaping.

The hysteria being whipped up in the media in relation to e-cigs / vaping concerns me also - who's driving this?? Is it tobacco industry seeing large numbers of smokers changing to vaping or is it Govt losing vast amounts of revenue from lost excise? The HSE ban is a case in point - absolutely daft in my opinion.

Both. The tobacco companies want it to stop being sold by 3rd parties so they can limit what you get and charge a fortune. A win-win for them, if e-liquid is expensive you'll say **** it sure I may as well smoke the fags, or vice versa, government can tax it then too. Absolute bollox and it really annoys me. Something that could've been brilliant ruined by large tobacco companies.

Calibos · 09-05-2014 09:09AM

Usually when someone mentions the phrase, 'Big Pharma', I want to walk away before I say something I shouldn't. However in the case of ecigs they are arguably a bigger problem than the tobacco industry. They stand to lose a fortune on their useless smoking cessation products never mind the drug treatments for smoking related diseases.

So when you combine these vested interest lobbies with an ill informed public and the 'nicotine is bad but caffeine isn't' brigade and present them to a Ministers for health with departments of finance breathing down their neck muttering, '4 billion a year lost customs and VAT revenue!!'

Well you end up with, "we don't know if they are safe...just because the propylene glycol didn't kill millions over the last few decades in medical inhalers or hospital ventilation systems doesnt mean it won't start now.....sure until we can prove its no more harmful than a lungful of urban air we better slow down its adoption as much as possible. Better the devil we know with 2000 chemicals some very harmful and carcinogenic, some cannaboid and benzo precursors etc than the product we are not sure of the safety of. Until further testing the margin of error is too great. What if statistically ecigs are only 100 times safer than cigarettes instead of 1000 times!?!?

If it didn't affect the health of millions it'd be funny :rolleyes:

Celly Smunt · 09-05-2014 09:18AM

Tail Docker wrote: »

found it to be worse than smokes in terms of coughs etc. Also vape-juice or whatever it's called is made in china, out of diesel and weed-killer. Ok, it might not be, but fcuked if there's any rules saying it can't be..

The coughs are due to the transitiom of coming off cigarettes, , you're just clearing all the ****e from your lungs

Not all juice is made in China, only cheap ****e. There are numerous irish vendors making juice to pharmaceutical standards.
Diesel and weed killer would give no benefit to anybody, in fact diesel and weed killer are more expensive than VG and PG so using them as agents makes no economical sense for any manufacturer.

KungPao · 09-05-2014 09:45AM

Definitely something fishy going on with the negative stories and banning of vaping by certain bodies. The tobacco and pharma industries stand to lose a fortune and have serious clout so i think they are up to something alright.

I quit smoking nearly 2 months ago...smoking cigarettes from 16-31 then rolling tobacco for a couple of years...then was just fed up with it. Fed up rolling, fed up stinking, was starting to look like a smoker with the bad tired skin, fed up with always worried about having my next fix, yellow teeth, yellow fingers, and most of all worried about the health. Quit around 30 and it's like you never smoked so they say, but keep at and you start doing serious damage...

Anyway, when i decided to quit I didn't even consider traditional NRT. It just doesn't work very well. Gum, patches, lozenges, inhalers etc...the dose is so low and you don't get any 'hit' to speak of. So if people start abandoning Nicorette etc for vaping just think of the lost revenues....

The banning of vaping by HSE, Dublin Bus, most airlines is crazy imo.

Spunge · 09-05-2014 09:51AM

The harm from smoking is not from the nicotine jeez. Nicotine isnt that bad for you.

Calibos · 09-05-2014 10:07AM

Spunge wrote: »

The harm from smoking is not from the nicotine jeez. Nicotine isnt that bad for you.

It's not good for you either and increases blood pressure but to a similar degree to caffeine. You don't see the sale of red bull to kids being banned.(not that it's recommended). There is however an easily ingestable fatal dose of nicotine whereas you'd puke before you drank enough red bull to kill you.

However when I hear someone go on about the evil poison nicotine while they gulp their expresso and munch on their tomato bruschetta I feel like banging my head on the table. (Tomatoes and aubergines have tonnes of nicotine in them as well as a myriad of other fruits and vegetables) it's usually the same type of person that would 'like' a Facebook campaign to ban the killer chemical compound called diHydrogen MonOxide.

IMHO, the only medicalisation of ecigs that should be supported is the advice to keep the bottles of juice in a locked medicine cabinet away from young children along with the paracetamol. If a kid swallowed a 50ml bottle of high nicotine juice it could be fatal.

Spunge · 09-05-2014 10:09AM

Calibos wrote: »

It's not good for you either and increases blood pressure but to a similar degree to caffeine. You don't see the sale of red bull to kids being banned.(not that it's recommended)

However when I hear someone go on about the evil poison nicotine while they gulp their expresso and munch on their tomato bruschetta I feel like banging my head on the table. (Tomatoes and aubergines have tonnes of nicotine in them....)

yeah caffeine id say is way worse. You can get seriously bad side effects if you take too much caffeine, like 1-2g.

Dravokivich · 09-05-2014 10:11AM

About a month go I saw a schoolkid vaping. I found it hilarious. Kids were smoking due to peer pressure, now they are vaping because it's "better" for'em. :pac:

I'm still curious over the amount of nicotine one would consume vaping, compared to smoking.

Spunge wrote: »

The harm from smoking is not from the nicotine jeez. Nicotine isnt that bad for you.

I'm not approaching it as "Nicotine is bad for you," I'm looking at it from the point of view that it's often referenced that nicotine is the addictive substance within cigarettes. Which is why people smoke, the issue with getting them off smoking, is to get them off nicotine and you don't achieve that by giving them unquantified doses of it.

Agent Smith · 09-05-2014 10:14AM

Tail Docker wrote: »

I smoke, and I don't like vaping - found it to be worse than smokes in terms of coughs etc. Also vape-juice or whatever it's called is made in china, out of diesel and weed-killer. Ok, it might not be, but fcuked if there's any rules saying it can't be..

This post was sponsored by Lucky strike!

Spunge · 09-05-2014 10:14AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

About a month go I saw a schoolkid vaping. I found it hilarious. Kids were smoking due to peer pressure, now they are vaping because it's "better" for'em. :pac:

I'm still curious over the amount of nicotine one would consume vaping, compared to smoking.

When im trying to quit i probably get way more nicotine than when im smokng. Whether that be gum, inhaler or e-cig, i absolutely rape the **** out of them.

I Heart Internet · 09-05-2014 10:51AM

I find just regular breathing works best for me. Less cancerlicious.

Dravokivich · 09-05-2014 10:55AM

Spunge wrote: »

When im trying to quit i probably get way more nicotine than when im smokng. Whether that be gum, inhaler or e-cig, i absolutely rape the **** out of them.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering along the lines of, not to the equivalent of a cigarette itself, but the actual amount they'd take in over a period of vaping, compared to a period of smoking.

the_syco · 09-05-2014 11:38AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

If I'm going to stop smoking I'll be stopping entirely.

Why do you want to quit? Health reasons? Vape. Money reasons? Vape. The smell? Vape.

Spunge · 09-05-2014 11:43AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I was wondering along the lines of, not to the equivalent of a cigarette itself, but the actual amount they'd take in over a period of vaping, compared to a period of smoking.

i think the sweet sweet tar and other carcinogens in a cig make up for the possible less nicotine you do intake.

lau1247 · 09-05-2014 02:04PM

Personally I don't smoke and I think both are harmful in some shape or form but if I have to choose between the two option, I'd go with vaping.

It was only when my wife becomes pregnant that I noticed that everywhere we go, as soon as we got out of a building/premise, there are people smoking by the entrance and there is nothing you can do to avoid getting a faceful of second hand smoke.

So if smokers want to kill themselves over time then go ahead by all means but do it such that it affects them only.

pillphil · 09-05-2014 04:31PM

KungPao wrote: »

Anyway, when i decided to quit I didn't even consider traditional NRT. It just doesn't work very well. Gum, patches, lozenges, inhalers etc...the dose is so low and you don't get any 'hit' to speak of.

I found the patches to be fairly good. Smoked for 10 years, did a month on the strongest (24mg) patch. Didn't need to continue the next 2 months on the weaker patches. Just started forgetting to put it on in the morning.

I stopped drinking before I stopped smoking, I don't think I'd have stayed off them if I hadn't. I had a few drinks a few weeks ago and couldn't resist the urge to smoke. A few more like that and I'd be a smoker again

Calibos · 10-05-2014 09:03AM

From the getgo initial studies showed that the blood nicotine levels in vapers were significantly lower than the smokers in the test groups and that the levels in the smokers peaked at their much higher level almost straight away whereas in the vapers it took 30 minutes or so of vaping for them to reach their peak levels.

The theory is that the particulate size of combusted tobacco smoke is much smaller than the particulate size of vapourised ecig juice. That the former can be inhaled down to the deepest tiniest branches of aveola in the lungs whereas the latter can't. The lungs can thus more efficiently extract the nicotine from smoke than vaper with every breath.

In terms of addiction potential. Someone else will have to confirm and I'm not sure whether it's empirical or anecdotal evidence but vapers have found its a lot easier to give up vaping than smoking. It's theorised based on studies on rats that it turns out the main addictive compounds in cigarettes were actually the cannaboids and benzo like compounds in cigarette smoke that gave smokers their relaxing addictive satisfaction while smoking a cigarette niot the nicotine at all. In rat addiction studies where rats trigger a lever to deliver their reward, they showed no addictive tendencies when given pure nicotine but showed the expected classic addiction tendencies when given nicotine via cigarette smoke.

rovoagho · 10-05-2014 09:11AM

Saw a guy vaping in the street again yesterday. Makes me laugh my hole off every time.

Calibos · 10-05-2014 09:29AM

rovoagho wrote: »

Saw a guy vaping in the street again yesterday. Makes me laugh my hole off every time.

Picks distinguishing feature of previous poster. Laughs my hole off. Tells the internet.

Funnily enough there was an appropriate Picard 'why the Fcuk' meme in the YLYL yesterday along the lines of 'why the fcuk are you laughing at the sweating fat guy in the Gym when he is actually trying to do something productive to lose the weight....'

BTW, my sig shows why I don't give a flying fcuk what I look like vaping on the street not that I'd give a fcuk what you thought anyway.

rovoagho · 10-05-2014 09:44AM

Actually I wasn't taking about you, and I can't see your sig as I'm on the mobile site. You'd want to watch that stuff, it makes you paranoid.

On the subject of vapers in the street, even cigarette smokers don't smoke in the street any more. Vapers that walk around with those things either have a serious addiction problem, or a vanity problem.

OldMrBrennan83 · 10-05-2014 10:41AM

This post has been deleted.

Snake · 10-05-2014 05:40PM

rovoagho wrote: »

Actually I wasn't taking about you, and I can't see your sig as I'm on the mobile site. You'd want to watch that stuff, it makes you paranoid.

On the subject of vapers in the street, even cigarette smokers don't smoke in the street any more. Vapers that walk around with those things either have a serious addiction problem, or a vanity problem.

Well I can assure you that's bollox

Lawrence1895 · 10-05-2014 05:53PM

I was smoking for 30 odd years, I'm vaping now...and save a lot of money

rovoagho · 10-05-2014 07:22PM

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Well I can assure you that's bollox

An excellent argument, debate team I assume?

I was a smoker from 15 or so to around 35, and I used to smoke in the street myself, as did a lot of people up to the ban. Since the ban, I've seen less and less people smoking on the street in Cork city and the towns in east Cork. I've no idea of it's a result of lower societal acceptance or simply less smokers though.

Snake · 10-05-2014 07:53PM

rovoagho wrote: »

An excellent argument, debate team I assume?

I was a smoker from 15 or so to around 35, and I used to smoke in the street myself, as did a lot of people up to the ban. Since the ban, I've seen less and less people smoking on the street in Cork city and the towns in east Cork. I've no idea of it's a result of lower societal acceptance or simply less smokers though.

Less people, not wiped out altogether. Which is what was said, smokers don't smoke in the street, they do

Calibos · 10-05-2014 09:23PM

rovoagho wrote: »

Actually I wasn't taking about you, and I can't see your sig as I'm on the mobile site. You'd want to watch that stuff, it makes you paranoid.

On the subject of vapers in the street, even cigarette smokers don't smoke in the street any more. Vapers that walk around with those things either have a serious addiction problem, or a vanity problem.

I didn't think you were talking about me??

I was highlighting an infantile post "Vapers look funny...LOL" by a drive-by poster in a thread that was having reasoned debate for the previous 4 pages. ie. it'd be like out of the blue me posting "Gingers make me laugh me hole off every time" as I knew you were ginger or something.

Sorry my satire of your wonderful contribution to the debate went over your head.

thebannerboy · 10-05-2014 11:36PM

Tail Docker wrote: »

I smoke, and I don't like vaping - found it to be worse than smokes in terms of coughs etc. Also vape-juice or whatever it's called is made in china, out of diesel and weed-killer. Ok, it might not be, but fcuked if there's any rules saying it can't be..

Where did you read all that? Benson&Hedges.com?

Snake · 11-05-2014 12:31AM

thebannerboy wrote: »

Where did you read all that? Benson&Hedges.com?

EU laws say so.. All e-juice is tested before it's allowed to be sold.. So there's no diseal or weed killer in it, bud. Otherwise it'd be on the label, the ingredients are on the bottles

4Dlolz · 11-05-2014 12:49AM

rovoagho wrote: »

Saw a guy vaping in the street again yesterday. Makes me laugh my hole off every time.

Why would you laugh at someone for using an e-cigarette?

If you've ever been addicted to cigarettes at any point in your life, you'd be fully aware of the sheer mental, emotional pain and absolute soul-destroying torture this guy was going through.

The very fact that he actually got up the courage to go out and buy an e-cigarette is downright commendable on his part and he deserves your encouragement and admiration.

Which is better? Vaping or Smoking?

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