Abusing candidates/canvassers - where is the line?

Foxhound38

Just saw this video posted on the Dublin Says No facebook page, which seems to show a young Labour Party candidate getting bollocked/harassed (depending on what way you want to look at it) out of an estate by two people from this group.

Having looked a bit more into it, there have been several such videos of similar carry on put up by this group - which makes for an interesting question: where is the line here, and is it being crossed?

These protestors have a right to freedom of speech and freedom to protest no doubt, but I can't help but feel slightly angry when I see this video. Surely in a democratic country any candidate from any party has the right to set out their stall in an election and not be harassed out of an estate?

Having looked a bit further into it, this woman is a first time candidate - does that matter? Should that matter?

It's an interesting one - what say you philosophers of AH?

Lapin

No one deserves abuse no matter who they represent.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

There is no line. There is no excuse for attacking, even verbally, somebody canvassing. Simply ignore them or say no thanks!

Amirani

What a hero. :rolleyes:

The Backwards Man

I think if you have to revert to any type of abuse, whether physical or verbal, then you have well and truly crossed the line. If you can't get your point across without acting the cnut, keep it to yourself.

Gbear

Lapin wrote: »

No one deserves abuse no matter who they represent.

How about the North American Man-Boy Love Association?

Amirani

The comments on that page are disgusting. I'd also rather them not call themselves "Dublin Saysno", they have nothing to say for me and the city I live in. Brain-dead morons.

Andy-Pandy

These type of people are morons, they only act this way because it's the only way they can make themselves feel important. They don't have the ability to rationally verbalise an argument.

Foxhound38

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The comments on that page are disgusting. I'd also rather them not call themselves "Dublin Saysno", they have nothing to say for me and the city I live in. Brain-dead morons.

They come across as slightly unhinged IMO

Whosthis

The line for me would be getting physical, anybody involved with any of the big 3 parties in this country deserve everything they get. They've done nothing but lie to and cheat the people of this country for at least the last 7 years and its about time we stood up to them.

Davarus Walrus

You always get those dumb fúckers sticking their camera phones into peoples faces, hectoring them, before uploading it to facebook. That candidate is trying to become a Councillor out of some sense of civic duty. She's a member of a party who had to make some hugely difficult decisions to try and restore economic sovereignty to this country. You'd think the Labour Party were doing this out of malice and spite. People are annoyed.

It doesn't give scum like those abusing her on camera the right to do that though.

Amirani

Whosthis wrote: »

The line for me would be getting physical, anybody involved with any of the big 3 parties in this country deserve everything they get. They've done nothing but lie to and cheat the people of this country for at least the last 7 years and its about time we stood up to them.

You don't seem to have any knowledge of current affairs outside the few paragraphs in The Star that you read.

Whosthis

Diego Simeone wrote: »

You don't seem to have any knowledge of current affairs outside the few paragraphs in The Star that you read.

What makes you think that?

LuckyLloyd

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

You always get those dumb fúckers sticking their camera phones into peoples faces, hectoring them, before uploading it to facebook. That candidate is trying to become a Councillor out of some sense of civic duty. She's a member of a party who had to make some hugely difficult decisions to try and restore economic sovereignty to this country. You'd think the Labour Party were doing this out of malice and spite. People are annoyed.

It doesn't give scum like those abusing her on camera the right to do that though.

Meh, I think Labour have proven themselves to be completely devoid of any principle or political philosophy. They certainly don't represent the left or the working class anymore. Moreover, their actions in government seem to be driven most simply by a desire to remain in government, nothing more or less.

Amirani

Whosthis wrote: »

What makes you think that?

Your post is factually incorrect and full of cliched soundbytes that don't really mean anything.

Whosthis

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Your post is factually incorrect.

Explain.

Foxhound38

Whosthis wrote: »

The line for me would be getting physical, anybody involved with any of the big 3 parties in this country deserve everything they get. They've done nothing but lie to and cheat the people of this country for at least the last 7 years and its about time we stood up to them.

Presumably the way to "stand up to them", if that's what you want done, is to refuse to vote for them when the time comes - as opposed to harassing a young woman trying to make her point off the street?

I'm not from the area and I don't know what she stands for aside from being a candidate for the Labour Party - but that sort of behaviour isn't on IMO. The funny thing is, if I was living in that area, I now wouldn't get a chance to hear what she stands for because two unhinged "campaigners" with a cameraphone bollocked her off my estate.

What's democratic about that?

Troy Lumberjack

Round here, dropping the hand is frowned on anyway.

LuckyLloyd

I'm not suggesting such aggressive harassment of a young local elections candidate is ever warranted mind, but Labour won't ever get a preference from me barring some major turnaround in their politics.

Dick phelan

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

You always get those dumb fúckers sticking their camera phones into peoples faces, hectoring them, before uploading it to facebook. That candidate is trying to become a Councillor out of some sense of civic duty. She's a member of a party who had to make some hugely difficult decisions to try and restore economic sovereignty to this country. You'd think the Labour Party were doing this out of malice and spite. People are annoyed.

It doesn't give scum like those abusing her on camera the right to do that though.

Are you Joking Labor are Traitors to this country, they have lied and lied to to the people, Labor so against Water charges the scumbag now introduces them, so against property tax, guess what introduced it, Labor have done nothing but make life even tougher on already suffering people, while they still gladly ride the gravy train. Not saying what these people did necessarily was right but if any Labor candiate comes to my door they will get a swift **** off and the door slammed on them. They have betrayed the people and should be booted out of power ASAP

Amirani

Whosthis wrote: »

Explain.

"Anybody involved the in the big 3 parties...have done nothing but lie to and cheat the people of this country for the last 7 years".

Look, my main problem with that sort of argument is that it's wrong, and makes the anti-Government side look pretty stupid. I'm not a FG, FF or Labour supporter. I've never voted for any of them. I'd rather an alternative Government. Verbally abusing people based on lies and hyperbole adds nothing.

Criticise candidates for flawed policies they might hold. Don't give them sympathy among the general electorate by being a complete ****tard.

Davarus Walrus

Dick phelan wrote: »

Are you Joking Labor are Traitors to this country, they have lied and lied to to the people, Labor so against Water charges the scumbag now introduces them, so against property tax, guess what introduced it, Labor have done nothing but make life even tougher on already suffering people, while they still gladly ride the gravy train. Not saying what these people did necessarily was right but if any Labor candiate comes to my door they will get a swift **** off and the door slammed on them. They have betrayed the people and should be booted out of power ASAP

Do you understand what a coalition government means? It means that the two parties came together and compromised on what decisions and policies they would implement. None of it was going to be good news. Considering the unprecedented situation we found ourselves in, I think they did a rather good job. Money doesn't grow on trees you know. If you want services then you need to pay for them.

Foxhound38

Dick phelan wrote: »

Labor so against Water charges the scumbag now introduces them, so against property tax, guess what introduced it

Not that I necessarily have much time for Labour, but do you really reckon they went along with introducing this stuff out of spite?

Also, I don't remember them coming out against a property tax (open to correction) - FG did but not Labour IIRC.

How do you propose we pay for water? Most countries pay for water... most countries also have a property tax.

Whosthis

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Presumably the way to "stand up to them", if that's what you want done, is to refuse to vote for them when the time comes - as opposed to harassing a young woman trying to make her point off the street?

I'm not from the area and I don't know what she stands for aside from being a candidate for the Labour Party - but that sort of behaviour isn't on IMO. The funny thing is, if I was living in that area, I now wouldn't get a chance to hear what she stands for because two unhinged "campaigners" with a cameraphone bollocked her off my estate.

What's democratic about that?

That's not what I would choose to do. However I can completely understand the frustration of any member of the public that does behave in this manner. True, some people don't have the ability the verbalise their arguments in a sensible and coherent manner, instead they'll just scream and shout. It may not be pretty or particularly civilised but many people will see canvassing politicians as the only forum they are afforded to voice their opinions.

My name is URL

Foxhound38 wrote: »

They come across as slightly unhinged IMO

Like those loopers that go on rants when chuggers approach them while most people just smile and walk by

lertsnim

Carole is a knacker who was full of chat till someone said something about her 21 year old daughter. Well able to give it but cannot take it. Typical of someone like her.

Rothko

The fact that they recorded it to post it online pretty much shows that they're doing it just for attention and to make themselves look like they're doing something important.

Amirani

lertsnim wrote: »

Carole is a knacker who was full of chat till someone said something about her 21 year old daughter. Well able to give it but cannot take it. Typical of someone like her.

Why, was she criticising other peoples daughters? If not, your post is beyond stupid.

Foxhound38

Whosthis wrote: »

However I can completely understand the frustration of any member of the public that does behave in this manner

I don't - it's pig ignorance and entitlement at work.

"I don't like X candidate/Party so now nobody gets to hear him/her - GET OFF MY ESTATE!! :mad: :mad: :mad: "

They can feck right off with that attitude tbh...

lertsnim

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Why, was she criticising other peoples daughters? If not, your post is beyond stupid.

Wouldn't be the only stupid post on this thread in that case.

Uriel.

Dick phelan wrote: »

Are you Joking Labor are Traitors to this country, they have lied and lied to to the people, Labor so against Water charges the scumbag now introduces them, so against property tax, guess what introduced it, Labor have done nothing but make life even tougher on already suffering people, while they still gladly ride the gravy train. Not saying what these people did necessarily was right but if any Labor candiate comes to my door they will get a swift **** off and the door slammed on them. They have betrayed the people and should be booted out of power ASAP

I've never voted labour and doubt I ever would. I don't like what they stand for at all.

But I find it interesting how they in particular are deviled. You do realise that they are a minority partner in a coalition government don't you?

If anything they've continued the protection of headline social welfare rates etc. Which would be relatively sizable proportion their core vote.

Foxhound38

Also yer man with the camera saying "run as an independent so" - fcuk off, she can run for whomever she damn well pleases. Same as anyone else - FF, FG, SF, whichever.

Who does this idiot think he is?

Uriel.

lertsnim wrote: »

Carole is a knacker who was full of chat till someone said something about her 21 year old daughter. Well able to give it but cannot take it. Typical of someone like her.

Don't know the woman and never heard her talk on any matters but if she's a knacker it looks like she's in the right constituency, if those people following her around are representative of that constituency

Phoebas

Are the 'Dublin Says No' group contesting the local elections or do they just like to wallow in their own anger?

Maudi

Eleven austerity suicides a week..Eleven..people..irish people you dumwit..kill themselves..because of this gov austerity (its not really austerity its money shovelled out of the country to bondholders/imf.) Children are put out of their homes by the thousands because of repossessions..homeless figures are at an epidemic level..irish people are eating out of bins.for christs sake!!.emigration is rife..working people are the new poor..and you expect citizens to what? Have tables on the streets laden with tea and scones coronation style to welcome the parasitic van guards of the political dynasty that caused this corrupt cash grab to happen ..yes welcome ..come tell me more lies to my face and why I should vote corruption once again..I dont think so pal..people have woken up..

Uriel.

Maudi wrote: »

Eleven austerity suicides a week..Eleven..people..irish people you dumwit..kill themselves..because of this gov austerity (its not really austerity its money shovelled out of the country to bondholders/imf.) Children are put out of their homes by the thousands because of repossessions..homeless figures are at an epidemic level..irish people are eating out of bins.for christs sake!!.emigration is rife..working people are the new poor..and you expect citizens to what? Have tables on the streets laden with tea and scones coronation style to welcome the parasitic van guards of the political dynasty that caused this corrupt cash grab to happen ..yes welcome ..come tell me more lies to my face and why I should vote corruption once again..I dont think so pal..people have woken up..

Lol

Your Oscar is in the post

My name is URL

It's no worse than the bickering and shouting that goes on in the Dail and Seanad or in any local council meeting.

tritium

Jeesus the folks in that video are scumbags.

The usual ****tard behaviour, keep on needling some poor fecker to try to get a reaction. Nice sly little shove or dig off camera 18 seconds in too.

They should try running for office themselves. Maybe after they loose their deposit on the 2 votes they get from their mammy and daddy they might skulk away and realise no one gives a flying fcuk about them

tritium

Maudi wrote: »

Eleven austerity suicides a week..Eleven..people..irish people you dumwit..kill themselves..because of this gov austerity (its not really austerity its money shovelled out of the country to bondholders/imf.) Children are put out of their homes by the thousands because of repossessions..homeless figures are at an epidemic level..irish people are eating out of bins.for christs sake!!.emigration is rife..working people are the new poor..and you expect citizens to what? Have tables on the streets laden with tea and scones coronation style to welcome the parasitic van guards of the political dynasty that caused this corrupt cash grab to happen ..yes welcome ..come tell me more lies to my face and why I should vote corruption once again..I dont think so pal..people have woken up..

And the alternative proposed by the loonies captured in this video is so attractive that they're riding high in the opinion polls!

Oh, wait.........

Foxhound38

Maudi wrote: »

Eleven austerity suicides a week..Eleven..people..irish people you dumwit..kill themselves..because of this gov austerity (its not really austerity its money shovelled out of the country to bondholders/imf.) Children are put out of their homes by the thousands because of repossessions..homeless figures are at an epidemic level..irish people are eating out of bins.for christs sake!!.emigration is rife..working people are the new poor..and you expect citizens to what? Have tables on the streets laden with tea and scones coronation style to welcome the parasitic van guards of the political dynasty that caused this corrupt cash grab to happen ..yes welcome ..come tell me more lies to my face and why I should vote corruption once again..I dont think so pal..people have woken up..

You can vote for whoever you damn well please - you can tell candidates, canvassers to fcuk off from your doorstep, never darken your door again etc etc.

But I don't care how angry you are - you don't get to harass people off public streets because you disagree with their political policies. You're not entitled to make that decision for other people. You're not entitled to bully people, no matter who they are or what group they belong to.

The people can make their decisions for themselves in the ballot box - they don't need unhinged lunatics like Dublin Says No to make that decision for them.

Grow up

My name is URL

tritium wrote: »

They should try running for office themselves. Maybe after they loose their deposit on the 2 votes they get from their mammy and daddy they might skulk away and realise no one gives a flying fcuk about them

They seem to realise that already. Probably has something to do with them screaming at candidates.

No Pants

Maudi wrote: »

Children are put out of their homes by the thousands

Is this in Ireland? First I've heard of it.

Amirani

No Pants wrote: »

Is this in Ireland? First I've heard of it.

More sensationalist rubbish that damages any decent opposition to the Government much more than it damages the Government themselves.

Like, who really wants to be on the same side as someone who posts so much drivel?

Foxhound38

tritium wrote: »

Jeesus the folks in that video are scumbags.

The usual ****tard behaviour, keep on needling some poor fecker to try to get a reaction. Nice sly little shove or dig off camera 18 seconds in too.

They should try running for office themselves. Maybe after they loose their deposit on the 2 votes they get from their mammy and daddy they might skulk away and realise no one gives a flying fcuk about them

But I thought they speak for the plain people of Ireland, don't they? :rolleyes: :pac:

Phoebas

No Pants wrote: »

Is this in Ireland? First I've heard of it.

Everyone knows that there's an inverse correlation between the size of a wall of text and the number of facts contained therein.

Pumpkinseeds

There's no excuse for it. Election day is when you make your statement, based on who you do or don't vote for. If people can't make their point in a calm and reasoned manner they should just not bother opening the door to canvassers.

I know who I'm voting for so I don't bother opening the door for the rest of them. There seems to be an awful lot of hysteria around these elections. I'm more annoyed by the idiots who are still trying to protest against water charges etc.

wendell borton

While I don't have too much love for labour at the moment those actions were out of order. There's something very creepy about filming intimation and posting it on youtube.

LuckyLloyd

Diego Simeone wrote: »

More sensationalist rubbish that damages any decent opposition to the Government much more than it damages the Government themselves.

Like, who really wants to be on the same side as someone who posts so much drivel?

Not I.

However, I feel comfortable that there are solid arguments for not giving any of the major parties preferences at this point in time. Certainly, for me at least, Jobsbridge on its own is reason enough not to vote for FG / Labour.

ahnowbrowncow

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Do you understand what a coalition government means? It means that the two parties came together and compromised on what decisions and policies they would implement. None of it was going to be good news. Considering the unprecedented situation we found ourselves in, I think they did a rather good job. Money doesn't grow on trees you know. If you want services then you need to pay for them.

So many eejits don't get this. What are Labour supposed to do? They're the minority government and have to compromise on many issues.

Not that I'll be voting for them after jobbridge and Sean Sherlock and his internet censorship. There's not many left for me to vote for though.

Shakespeare's Sister

Maudi wrote: »

Children are put out of their homes by the thousands because of repossessions..irish people are eating out of bins

Where are you getting the above from?

and you expect citizens to what? Have tables on the streets laden with tea and scones

No. It's not like there's only that or yelling abuse at them and nothing in between.

Muise...

I the young woman passing by, pushing a buggy, who stops to see what's going on and defends the candidate. "Just let her do her own thing, for fcuk's sake!" I daresay she's more representative of this and all constituencies than Dublin Says No and their tactics. Hope so anyway.