So how do we think it will end? *SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS*

Paddy Cow

I have absolutely no idea. Martin has said that the ending will be bittersweet so I have a feeling that Tyrion and Arya (arguably the most loved characters) won't be alive at the end of it

As for who ends up ruling, I honestly couldn't guess it. I have a feeling that Jon won't be dead and will somehow end up leaving the Night's Watch, stop being such a mopey wet blanket and end up playing a big part. Any chance it's take him teaming up with Dani to save them not only from the wars in the Seven Kingdoms but also from the White Walkers? Jon being the ice and Dani being the fire?

Witcher

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Jon being the ice and Dani being the fire?

Too obvious imo, GRRM has said that the title has many levels of meaning and isn't necessarily as literal as that.

username123

I've a feeling it'll end in ways we can't foresee yet because we haven't been introduced to all the relevant characters.

Given what we currently know I'd like to see Jon, Dany and Bran controlling dragons in a white walker battle with Good Queen Brienne providing support from the capitol while her eldest son Jaime courts Queen of the North Ayras eldest daughter Slyvio.

Paddy Cow

Blay wrote: »

Too obvious imo, GRRM has said that the title has many levels of meaning and isn't necessarily as literal as that.

Ya, I was thinking that too. Goes to show you how stuck I am for ideas lol

Paddy Cow

username123 wrote: »

I've a feeling it'll end in ways we can't foresee yet because we haven't been introduced to all the relevant characters.

Given what we currently know I'd like to see Jon, Dany and Bran controlling dragons in a white walker battle with Good Queen Brienne providing support from the capitol while her eldest son Jaime courts Queen of the North Ayras eldest daughter Slyvio.

Are Jamie and Brienne really in love though? I always thought their relationship was based on mutual respect, rather than sexual attraction or love. I found Cersei asking Brienne outright if she loved Jamie was in line with Cersei's bitchiness and love of making people uncomfortable but I never really thought that Brienne was in love with Jamie.

Witcher

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Ya, I was thinking that too. Goes to show you how stuck I am for ideas lol

Now he didn't say it definitely wasn't that either, just that there were other levels of meaning to it and that it might not be the only way of seeing it. So it's still be on the table.

Paddy Cow

Blay wrote: »

Now he didn't say it definitely wasn't that either, just that there were other levels of meaning to it and that it might not be the only way of seeing it. So it's still be on the table.

As username pointed out, we might not even know all the characters yet so it is very hard to predict. I found in the books that from around Tywin was killed and Tyrion started his journey, so many new characters and arcs were introduced it was hard to follow them all. We don't know who will survive and who's arc will have long term meaning.

December2012

How about Sansa be queen?

username123

December2012 wrote: »

How about Sansa be queen?

Sansa can have the Eyrie. But she needs a nice husband.

username123

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Are Jamie and Brienne really in love though? I always thought their relationship was based on mutual respect, rather than sexual attraction or love. I found Cersei asking Brienne outright if she loved Jamie was in line with Cersei's bitchiness and love of making people uncomfortable but I never really thought that Brienne was in love with Jamie.

In my version of events they fall in love

I'd also like to see the Hound redeemed and get a nice wife.

December2012

username123 wrote: »

Sansa can have the Eyrie. But she needs a nice husband.

Aegon?

username123

December2012 wrote: »

Aegon?

Ooh, yes. Blonde and handsome and classy. It works for me!

Son0vagun

It will end with everyone dead and Westeros being reclaimed by The Childern Of The Forest.

Paddy Cow

username123 wrote: »

In my version of events they fall in love

I'd also like to see the Hound redeemed and get a nice wife.

The Hound is very like Jamie in character development. They are both characters that are very easy to hate when we first meet them but as the story progresses and we get to know more about them, they become more likeable. This isn't just because we learn more about their pasts but also because they actively make changes in their lives and do things that are so out of character for them, even they don't understand it at the time.

For Jamie, it was when he saved Brienne from getting raped. He had absolutely noting to gain from interfering and it would've made his life easier if he kept his mouth shut. For the Hound, it was when he saved Arya at the Twins. He could've left her but in the heat of the moment he saved her, even though he knew Arya hated him with a passion and wanted to kill him (this comes across more clearly in the books). At the time, he wasn't doing it to sell her to her aunt, that thought only came later.

I think they are two of the most interesting characters because they have shown the most development and deviation from what is expected of them. My opinion of Jamie really started changing when he was explaining about how he was expected to keep so many oaths. Obey his father, obey the King, protect the weak. When all of his oaths are at loggerheads, which oath does he keep? The only person he ever told about the true reason for him killing the King, was Brienne. He didn't kill the King for his father or the throne but to save Kings Landing and for that he paid dearly. He could've claimed the throne by right of conquest but he didn't. Ned Stark for all his waffling about justice and honour, never gave Jamie the chance to explain exactly why he did what he did. Ned never held a grudge against Ser Barristan for standing aside and watching Ned's father and brother being brutally slaughtered by the King but he held a grudge against Jamie.

The Hound showed personal growth early on with Sansa. He tried to protect her from Joffrey and was kind to her. His talk with Arya about having a code gave an insight into him. Unlike his brother, who had no problem raping and pillaging, the Hound wanted no part in that. He had a point in that he could've beat and/or raped Arya when she was trying to kill him but he didn't. He killed the butchers boy on orders from Joffrey but he doesn't kill just because he can.

I still don't buy Jamie and Brienne as lovers. I think what makes their relationship real is the respect and understanding they have for each other. They aren't afraid to pull each other up on their faults and that's what brings out the best in both of them.

If we were to imagine a fairytale ending, what's the chances of Brienne getting with the Hound? I think they would make a suitable couple. Neither is power hungry or wants to live the high life. I can't imagine the Hound falling in love with a woman who was anything less than his equal and only Brienne fits the bill.

Brienne's only experience with love so far was when she was in love with Renly and that came across as more infatuation than love. This is a woman who has had to be masculine most of her life so it's not surprising that she is confused about her feelings. I think she does have feelings for Jamie and does love him but isn't "in love" with him. She is confused because she has always hated him but now she doesn't and doesn't fully understand why.

I think Brienne and Sandor would make a perfect match. Thoughts?

TL:DR waffle waffle I started typing and got carried away waffle waffle :P

Witcher

Paddy Cow wrote: »

He could've claimed the throne by right of conquest but he didn't. Ned Stark for all his waffling about justice and honour, never gave Jamie the chance to explain exactly why he did what he did. Ned never held a grudge against Ser Barristan for standing aside and watching Ned's father and brother being brutally slaughtered by the King but he held a grudge against Jamie.
:P

He could have tried anyway, but with the numbers the rebels had the Lannisters would have ended up the same as the Targaryens.

Ned never mentions his father or his brother to Jaime, that only happens in the show. Ned understood the position the KG were in when Rickard etc arrived and that they don't act for themselves. He doesn't even think bad of Arthur Dayne etc. holding Lyanna when he thinks back on it, he recalls Dayne as the greatest knight he had ever seen.

username123

Brienne and the Hound? I can get with that!! He'd actually be taller than her too which Jaime isn't. Plus he does have a soft spot for the high born ladies and Brienne is really really nice. He'd never expect to marry a great beauty either. And with the Mountain gone his family estate would be his. And Brienne told her father she would only marry a man who could beat her in combat. Jaime already failed there but the Hound probably could.

Perhaps we can leave Jaime respectfully as head of the KingsGuard.

lynski

I think we are looking at a popular revolution with the newly powerful religious army swelled by the fully trained and armed men recruited to various banners, with the news from Dany's slave freeing and wildlings coming south.
The common people will realise they do not have to bow down any longer and there will be fighting, the wall with it's whitewalker repelling magic will hold in the end, but some dramatic whitewalker conflicts. The Era of lords and serfs will end with a more egalitarian society emerging from the conflict.
Littlefinger will rise briefly on the crest of that wave, but the religious leaders will see through him and he will disgraced.

Dany never reaches westeros, but settles down and has a pile of kids and gets old and fat and happy.
Oh yeah, I am down with Brianne taming the hound and growing old and fat and happy with a pile of kids around her.

Jamie redeems himself once more and runs off and marries a wilding, growing old and fat and happy with a pile of kids around him.
Cersei grows old and fat and miserable and no one ever visits her or listens to her.

connemara man

The real last line of the books.

As bran jon snow and danaerys bring peace to yhe world on dragon back... bran wakes from his coma :P

Riskymove

connemara man wrote: »

... bran wakes from his coma :P

or

Cathryn wakes up in bed and finds Ned in the shower

turnikett1

You're all forgetting Rickon and Osha. Rickon and Osha develop an intensely intimate romantic relationship and spawn many children. Over the course of 30 years these children form their own houses and after sometime challenge the authority of the King/Queen of Westeros.

ArmaniJeanss

I don't think there will be an ending, he'll just continue to write books that progress and expand the story but never end it. And then he'll die.

I think its too difficult to end at this stage, there must be 250+ unfinished plot points by now. Getting an answer or resolution to them all in the space of one book would be just a terribly written book full of exposition.

And in truth its makes a lot of sense that there should be no ending. In real life there wouldn't be. There'll always be a contender feeling they've been wronged of whats rightfully theirs and building an army whilst politically undermining the present rulers.

alwald

The most logical ending: Stannis will be king as Melisandre's magic via the lord of light is real.

An ending with lots of twists and turns: Either Varys or Lord Baelish as they have lots of contacts, have been around in KL and as members of the small council for way too long and they are full of surprises.

The ending that I want: Jon Snow to rule as he's most likely the song of ice and fire.

Hotale.com

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

And in truth its makes a lot of sense that there should be no ending. In real life there wouldn't be. There'll always be a contender feeling they've been wronged of whats rightfully theirs and building an army whilst politically undermining the present rulers.

It would make sense if this was real life, but it's not. It would be nothing but bad writing if his aim was to never finish it, the old cliché "every story needs a beginning, a middle and an ending" really holds true. It needs closure.

Sure if he wanted he could write some independent novels based on what happened after the ending and that would be cool, but to give the series no closure would be terrible. Imagine if the series ended with ADWD? Wouldn't that be terrible? You sound as if you're advocating a sudden cease in production, as if the story should just go along for a certain time, the figurative storyteller should just go missing and the entire plot should just be left hanging. Of course events would happen after the series is finished, but they don't concern us as they're not part of the ASOIAF storyline.

ArmaniJeanss

Hotale.com wrote: »

It would make sense if this was real life, but it's not. It would be nothing but bad writing if his aim was to never finish it, the old cliché "every story needs a beginning, a middle and an ending" really holds true. It needs closure.

He has talked about breaking the rules of writing before, no reason why he has to stick to the old beginning,middle,end rule.

Hotale.com wrote: »

Sure if he wanted he could write some independent novels based on what happened after the ending and that would be cool, but to give the series no closure would be terrible. Imagine if the series ended with ADWD? Wouldn't that be terrible? You sound as if you're advocating a sudden cease in production, as if the story should just go along for a certain time, the figurative storyteller should just go missing and the entire plot should just be left hanging.

Funnily enough I've thought before about how I'd feel if ADWD was the last book, and I'd be OK with it.
Whilst I passionately want to read more books and have the same strands resolved as you do, I think ADWD is a perfectly fine end point for this story. I don't expect or need an 'everything finalised' endpoint, and am prepared for an ending where 80% of the current plots remain unresolved.
I understand I'd be in a tiny minority (possibly of 1) with this viewpoint.

Mr Freeze

Is Dany making it to Westeros and fighting the White Walkers with her dragons too obvious for Martin also?

Will she arrive, beat them and then the people will love her and she will sit the Iron Throne?

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Dany never makes it to Westeros, and gets as far as the house she grew up in. The house with the red door in Braavos.

Or, she might get to Westeros, and decide its not worth taking, a cold, desolate, starving, warring land, she might go back to the sunshine in the east.

pinkypinky

I'd be really unhappy if I didn't get to see: the Lannisters get their comeuppance, Dany in Westeros, the resolution of the Aegon story, and some kind of recovery for the Starks.

I do worry GRRM will die before he gets it all out. Tempted to go to Shamrokon just so I can give him a talking to!

username123

pinkypinky wrote: »

I do worry GRRM will die before he gets it all out. Tempted to go to Shamrokon just so I can give him a talking to!

Was half thinking of picketing outside it with a poster saying "Hurry Up With The Book".

connemara man

username123 wrote: »

Was half thinking of picketing outside it with a poster saying "Hurry Up With The Book".

Hes on the record of saying leave him be or tyrion dies so leave him alone

username123

connemara man wrote: »

Hes on the record of saying leave him be or tyrion dies so leave him alone

Well in that case......

Liam O

pinkypinky wrote: »

I'd be really unhappy if I didn't get to see: the Lannisters get their comeuppance, Dany in Westeros, the resolution of the Aegon story, and some kind of recovery for the Starks.

I do worry GRRM will die before he gets it all out. Tempted to go to Shamrokon just so I can give him a talking to!

The only Lannister deserving of a comeuppance is Cersei and she's been getting it pretty rough in recent times. The Tyrells obviously play a massive part in the closing books as the show are making a big effort with Margaery and the QoT. I hope they end differently as I really don't like the direction the show is going.

muckisluck

Have we had closure on Benjen Stark. I keep expecting that he will turn up again to save the north.

Hotale.com

muckisluck wrote: »

Have we had closure on Benjen Stark. I keep expecting that he will turn up again to save the north.

Definitely will show up in the next book or two, I think Bran will see his death through a weirwood and that will reveal some big secret regarding the Others...

theoneeyedman

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I don't think there will be an ending, he'll just continue to write books that progress and expand the story but never end it. And then he'll die.

I think its too difficult to end at this stage, there must be 250+ unfinished plot points by now. Getting an answer or resolution to them all in the space of one book would be just a terribly written book full of exposition.

And in truth its makes a lot of sense that there should be no ending. In real life there wouldn't be. There'll always be a contender feeling they've been wronged of whats rightfully theirs and building an army whilst politically undermining the present rulers.

This.

Then after a few years new volumes will come out ghost written as GRR Martin's GOT or some such....

Hotale.com

theoneeyedman wrote: »

This.

Then after a few years new volumes will come out ghost written as GRR Martin's GOT or some such....

I think he's 100% forbidden anyone else touching his work.

Oranage2

Dany takes south Westoros, Stannis takes the north, they war for a bit and
Stannis is killed and Jon takes over.

Jon and Dany marry then take on the white walkers.

Hotale.com

Oranage2 wrote: »

Dany takes south Westoros, Stannis takes the north, they war for a bit and
Stannis is killed and Jon takes over.

Jon and Dany marry then take on the white walkers.

But Jon's taken the black? Can anyone ever stop being a brother of the nights watch?

Paddy Cow

Hotale.com wrote: »

But Jon's taken the black? Can anyone ever stop being a brother of the nights watch?

They can if they get conveniently stabbed to death by their fellow brothers and die. Death releases someone from their oath. If they're lucky enough to have someone handy like Melisandre on stand by to bring them back from the dead, then they are free to do what they like when they re-animate.

At least that's what a lot of people think is going to happen.

Paddy Cow

At some stage Melisandre is going to realise that Stannis is not the one she is looking for and drop him like a hot potato. I can't see him ever sitting on the Iron Throne or being as big a threat again as when was when he launched his attack on KL.

Hotale.com

When someone wargs into an animal, do they have full control of it? I always imagined that they couldn't actually completely control what they're warging and couldn't be as strong as what they're warging when it's independent... Sorry if that sentence was a bit confusing :pac:

Paddy Cow

Hotale.com wrote: »

When someone wargs into an animal, do they have full control of it? I always imagined that they couldn't actually completely control what they're warging and couldn't be as strong as what they're warging when it's independent... Sorry if that sentence was a bit confusing :pac:

If you warg into an animal for a short time you can have full control of the animal. If you stay warged for too long you will start to mould with the animal's mind until eventually you forget all about your human side. If you warg into an animal just before you die and stay in that animal, you will eventually forget who you were and become part of the animal.

username123

If you died and warged into another person, ie, stole their body, can you still warg into other animals/people or once youve lost the "mothership" is that it?

Mickeroo

username123 wrote: »

If you died and warged into another person, ie, stole their body, can you still warg into other animals/people or once youve lost the "mothership" is that it?

Maybe it's possible if you do it straight away or very soon after? Not sure really. I don't think it's been really suggested as being possible yet but it's hard to know.

username123

Mickeroo wrote: »

Maybe it's possible if you do it straight away or very soon after? Not sure really. I don't think it's been really suggested as being possible yet but it's hard to know.

Nice way of being immortal if you can.

Hotale.com

Paddy Cow wrote: »

They can if they get conveniently stabbed to death by their fellow brothers and die. Death releases someone from their oath. If they're lucky enough to have someone handy like Melisandre on stand by to bring them back from the dead, then they are free to do what they like when they re-animate.

At least that's what a lot of people think is going to happen.

But why would someone who thinks so highly of their honour, and was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at a very young age, turn their back on their brothers? This would really undermine so much of Jon's character.

Unless Jon wakes up from his 'death' as a completely different person, or if Melisandre somehow turns him into a puppet for her use, I can't see him turning his back on the Night's Watch. Also, I think he'll end up as the 1000th Lord Commander (just because 998 seems like such a convenient number :P), he was 998th, someone else will be 999th while he's out, and then he'll end up being 1000th when/if he is brought back.

Hotale.com

username123 wrote: »

If you died and warged into another person, ie, stole their body, can you still warg into other animals/people or once youve lost the "mothership" is that it?

The prologue of ADWD might answer this, not sure though tbh

Paddy Cow

Hotale.com wrote: »

But why would someone who thinks so highly of their honour, and was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at a very young age, turn their back on their brothers? This would really undermine so much of Jon's character.

Unless Jon wakes up from his 'death' as a completely different person, or if Melisandre somehow turns him into a puppet for her use, I can't see him turning his back on the Night's Watch. Also, I think he'll end up as the 1000th Lord Commander (just because 998 seems like such a convenient number :P), he was 998th, someone else will be 999th while he's out, and then he'll end up being 1000th when/if he is brought back.

Because the last time he turned his back on them, he got stabbed to death! They clearly don't want him there and what purpose would it serve if Jon gets killed for real?

It's only a theory anyway. We don't know yet if Jon really has died but if he has, it would free him from his oath. Whether or not the rest of the watch would even accept him back as Lord Commander or consider him some sort of abomination is another question to be asked.

They wouldn't have enough time to elect another Lord Commander. For Jon to be any use, he has to be re-animated almost instantly. Catelyn was left for three days and is now basically nothing more than a mumbling corpse who's only emotion is revenge.

Paddy Cow

username123 wrote: »

If you died and warged into another person, ie, stole their body, can you still warg into other animals/people or once youve lost the "mothership" is that it?

I don't think you'd last very long in another person. In the books when the guy tried it with the woman she fought him and he couldn't control her. Even Bran had a hard time controlling Hodor and Hodor isn't exactly a strong willed person.

username123

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I don't think you'd last very long in another person. In the books when the guy tried it with the woman she fought him and he couldn't control her. Even Bran had a hard time controlling Hodor and Hodor isn't exactly a strong willed person.

I guess Im thinking along the lines of someone for whom the warging is strong.

Paddy Cow

username123 wrote: »

I guess Im thinking along the lines of someone for whom the warging is strong.

The guy in the books was really strong. I can't remember his name but his back story was that his parents kicked him out when he was six because his skill scared them. He went to live with someone else who could warg and learned from him. His mentor told him he was the strongest warger he had ever met. He also told him not to warg into people.

At the moment it seems Bran has the potential to become the strongest warger but I don't think even he could truly take over another persons mind and still retain himself.

Hotale.com

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The guy in the books was really strong. I can't remember his name but his back story was that his parents kicked him out when he was six because his skill scared them. He went to live with someone else who could warg and learned from him. His mentor told him he was the strongest warger he had ever met. He also told him not to warg into people.

At the moment it seems Bran has the potential to become the strongest warger but I don't think even he could truly take over another persons mind and still retain himself.

Varamyr Sixskins or something?

Oranage2

Hotale.com wrote: »

But why would someone who thinks so highly of their honour, and was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at a very young age, turn their back on their brothers? This would really undermine so much of Jon's character.

Unless Jon wakes up from his 'death' as a completely different person, or if Melisandre somehow turns him into a puppet for her use, I can't see him turning his back on the Night's Watch. Also, I think he'll end up as the 1000th Lord Commander (just because 998 seems like such a convenient number :P), he was 998th, someone else will be 999th while he's out, and then he'll end up being 1000th when/if he is brought back.

The guy that broke his oath to sleep with a smelly hairy wildling girl, one look at Dany and I'm sure he'll find a conscientious fair way to break the black.



Also may be wrong but I thought a warg could stay in an animals body if the actual body was killed. And I thought humans besides the simple minded was impossible