Brenda Power versus the Travellers

Kermit.de.frog

Was Brenda Power right about Travellers in her newspaper article last week?


My opinion is yes she was and that everyone seems scared to say what they really think in public.

Others will have other opinions but I detect a hint of cowardice by media outlets to really cover this because I think the majority agree with me that there is a real problem in Ireland not being addressed because of fear.

COYVB

A link would be nice for the majority of people on the site who haven't read it and have no idea what you're talking about...

Kermit.de.frog

Pavee Point says it's incitement to hatred - therefore I could get banned from boards if I post the link?


Or am I wrong?

Edit: Also Traveller rights movement.

PizzamanIRL

Was Barack Obama right in saying that thing that he said last Wednesday at about 3 o clock?

Lenin Skynard

I read it, it's very unsavoury to see a group of people being labelled because of the actions of a few. No more than I want to be labelled by foreigners as a drunk looking for a fight just because I'm Irish.

My point doesn't count though, because of "PC", whatever the **** that means. I suspect it means nothing at all.

Kermit.de.frog

Okee here

http://www.thejournal.ie/travellers-group-angry-at-daily-mail-article-1405784-Apr2014/

DEFTLEFTHAND

I suppose if you give a sweep of many country towns a problem with Traveller violence does exist. I remember the thuggery committed at The blessing of the the graves in Blessington co Wicklow last summer for instance. You report whats's there to see in plain view. Say it like it is. The NY Times didn't skimp on reporting on Irish and Italian criminality in NYC in the 20th century.

xavier8228

I would think as a reporter you should interview more travellers on the opinion piece for another side to clarify your opinion but I understand where her story is coming from.

suicide_circus

A million and one opinion pieces have been written on a multitude of topics based on the writers opinion, experience and the experience of the vast majority of the population. Unfortunately for Brenda, on this occasion, her opinion and experience fell under discrimination legislation. Dosnt mean it wasnt an honest and true piece, just that this particular piece of truth is banned from being told.

steveone

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I suppose if you give a sweep of many country towns a problem with Traveller violence does exist. I remember the thuggery committed at The blessing of the the graves in Blessington co Wicklow last summer for instance. You report whats's there to see in plain view. Say it like it is. The NY Times didn't skimp on reporting on Irish and Italian criminality in NYC in the 20th century.

Thuggery and violence is no way unique to the travellers. They do it well however the common or garden scumbag .-ivor or damo- is indiscriminate and equally harmful.
I agree with o.p about the fear aspect and ironically its not fear of intimidation but legislation. Irish society seems to have a problem with the concept of challenging legislation and argument. Look at the pension scandals, as soon as someone threatens legal action the goverment shivers despite the fact that they have the means to engage it.
Is it inciteful to raise the elephant in the room and ask where their-or anyones money comes from?
P/point might be correct about inciting hatred but the hate is not directed toward the culture rather the different treatment thats metered out to them and against the behaviour of anti social types . The fact that they are travellers shouldn't matter but they get away with it -why cant i? Rather than deal head on with the issues the incitement blanket is thrown over it and we move on for fear of the consequences.

DildoFaggins

Fantastic link Op.

CrackisWhack

"We can't tar all travellers with the same brush because of the actions of a few"

Always hear this, which I generally agree with, problem is, there is approx. a population of 30k travellers in Ireland, so it's more than a few. I'd like to know the prison population of travellers in Ireland.

Gatling

Didn't we do this last week ??

tipptom

Brenda power vs the travellers ,she should put up a video on Utube trash talking them and her brothers jumping up and down behind her in their wife beaters roaring"Cmon ill bate the f*cking lot of yiz.

steveone

Gatling wrote: »

Didn't we do this last week ??

Don't know and apologies if i regurgitated it but i 've found it today

ThisRegard

xavier8228 wrote: »

I would think as a reporter you should interview more travellers on the opinion piece for another side to clarify your opinion but I understand where her story is coming from.

How can you clarify an opinion?

steveone

tipptom wrote: »

Brenda power vs the travellers ,she should put up a video on Utube trash talking them and her brothers jumping up and down behind her in their wife beaters roaring"Cmon ill bate the f*cking lot of yiz.

Ah yes! They do use Utube as a forum and then we won't get the pavee point edited responses.

Gatling

steveone wrote: »

Don't know and apologies if i regurgitated it but i 've found it today

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057183564/1

Soft Falling Rain

Slash hooks, suggesting all travellers do is fightin' an' feudin', suggesting they are all unskilled....one word to describe all of this and the author, but I'd be banned if I said it.

brooke 2

350 traveller sites lying idle due to infighting between families.

In today's papers.

foggy_lad

brooke 2 wrote: »

350 traveller sites lying idle due to infighting between families.

In today's papers.

If you wanted your own plot of land provided by the council what better way than to claim you were feuding with any other family that the council wanted you to share a halting site with,

No Pants

What about that boxer chap who got attacked in his home, anyone know what that was about?

jimmy blevins

The media seem very quiet on the subject considering he's a successful Irish sports person. If this had happened to any one else the tabloids would be baying for blood.

kingtiger

Racist

since when are travellers a race?

arse..biscuits

Here is a reply left on thejounal.ie, I couldn't agree more with it.



As long as we encourage a culture of victim hood, we will continue to raise victims, and so the cycle or underachievement continues.
One of the things that holds back open and reasonable discussion on matters regarding the travelling community is that they themselves (and other people also) are too quick to jump in with ‘discrimination’, ‘anti-traveller’ and ‘racism’ accusations.
So it is well near impossible to get any kind of dialogue going because if you express a negative opinion at all you are then in the firing line for accusations of discrimination.
I’ll give an example- there is traveller accommodation quite near my home (a medium sized town within 50 min’s drive of Dublin well known for having experience issues with travllers in the past ). At our residents meetings for the entire community the issue of rubbish being dumped on the road outside the travellers halting site was raised.
The response from the travellers representative about the issue was ‘youse just don’t like travellers’ quickly followed by absolute shut down and refusal to discuss the matter. People’s hands are tied in situations like that.
It’s impossible to make changes when one side will not acknowledge unacceptable behaviour but instead insists that they are being picked on for being a traveller. Surely it is the other way around. Travellers don’t like non travellers. That’s why they treat them with contempt and are backed up by the pseudo-intellectual-liberals who soft-voice their opinions on discrimination, exclusion and all that other nonsense.
They (the travellers) and only they are the architects of this discrimination. Why not try assimilation for a change? That would require doing a day’s constructive work and meeting one’s social obligations. This is not in the curriculum of these card carrying members of the victim culture.
It is my opinion that they should be referred to by nationality like everyone else and stop letting them use the tag traveller as an excuse to get away with things. Plus I don’t think traveller describes their lifestyle anymore (I went to primary & secondary school with travllers- none of them actually traveled in their caravans except for expensive family holidays to lourdes & Euro Disney in the summer when they’d use their bespoke vactation campervans instead) They are just accepted but there has come a time where they should be brought to book about how they live outside the system and yet still benefit from it.
By being lenient with travellers, they have now become above the law. Would anyone here be able to park a caravan anywhere and leave litter where they like? The bottom line is that Travellers do this.
I think Government policy should target the women mainly; education and housing and integration coupled with vigorous tax law enforcement and enforcement of law regarding schooling ((Most of the traveller kids I knew left school after their confirmation) is the only hope for positive change .Then their mortality rate and their infant mortality rate might start to fall but pussy footing around with their rights without responsibilities is doomed to fail.

20Cent

The John Joe story is on almost all the front pages of today's papers. Power was wrong to label all travellers as violent thugs this was racist and incitement to hatred.

Tigger

20Cent wrote: »

The John Joe story is on almost all the front pages of today's papers. Power was wrong to label all travellers as violent thugs this was racist and incitement to hatred.

Did she say all ?

Ghost Buster

CrackisWhack wrote: »

"We can't tar all travellers with the same brush because of the actions of a few"

Always hear this, which I generally agree with, problem is, there is approx. a population of 30k travellers in Ireland, so it's more than a few. I'd like to know the prison population of travellers in Ireland.

It high but this is because our legal system is 'racist' according to Pavee Point:rolleyes:

upstairs for coffee

20Cent wrote: »

The John Joe story is on almost all the front pages of today's papers. Power was wrong to label all travellers as violent thugs this was racist and incitement to hatred.

Irish travellers are not a race. They are at the most an ethnic group.

smurgen

20Cent wrote: »

The John Joe story is on almost all the front pages of today's papers. Power was wrong to label all travellers as violent thugs this was racist and incitement to hatred.

Ya all travellers,if she said the vast majority she'd be correct in my opinion.My father is friends with a group of travellers and they are totally dysfunctional and opportunistic.they recently had feud with another group from a county over and it culminated in my father's friends horses getting their legs broken with a sledgehammer. They don't care about nearly anything else except money. I have personally talked to at least twenty travellers myself and even went to birthday party of one of them which surprisingly enough went okay. I had one of them admit to me before that travellers see settled people as fair game to be taken advantage of.

Ghost Buster

No Pants wrote: »

What about that boxer chap who got attacked in his home, anyone know what that was about?

He tried to mediate in a feud between two factions of his family. He had one leg pulped with a golf club and the other broken. When he was brought to Mullingar Hospital the feud followed him leading to a hospital lock down and major inconvenience to other sick and injured people.
A regular occurance .

Wacker The Attacker

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Was Barack Obama right in saying that thing that he said last Wednesday at about 3 o clock?

Who's still listening to him at this point?

20Cent

Tigger wrote: »

Did she say all ?

She explicitly stated negative characteristics to all of an ethnic group. Isn't that what racism is?
Criticise the incidents violence etc but applying that to every member of the travelling community is taking it too far and racist.

Pixie69

tipptom wrote: »

Brenda power vs the travellers ,she should put up a video on Utube trash talking them and her brothers jumping up and down behind her in their wife beaters roaring"Cmon ill bate the f*cking lot of yiz.

Ye ****e in a bucket

tipptom

20Cent wrote: »

She explicitly stated negative characteristics to all of an ethnic group. Isn't that what racism is?
Criticise the incidents violence etc but applying that to every member of the travelling community is taking it too far and racist.

Are they a separate ethnic group?,i thought that a show done recently that was a presented by a traveller showed that there was no difference in their dna compared to other Irish people.

Ghost Buster

tipptom wrote: »

Are they a separate ethnic group?,i thought that a show done recently that was a presented by a traveller showed that there was no difference in their dna compared to other Irish people.

And what if there was. People from the islands can be identified by their dna. People from the West of Ireland have Basque region dna from thousands of years ago.

Frank Lee Midere

20Cent wrote: »

She explicitly stated negative characteristics to all of an ethnic group. Isn't that what racism is?
Criticise the incidents violence etc but applying that to every member of the travelling community is taking it too far and racist.

Travellers are neither a race not an ethnic group. It's a lifestyle choice.

20Cent

tipptom wrote: »

Are they a separate ethnic group?,i thought that a show done recently that was a presented by a traveller showed that there was no difference in their dna compared to other Irish people.

Ethnic groups don't necessarily have different DNA. It's a group that shares a distinctive culture.

20Cent

Donnielighto wrote: »

i hope there is a backlash against these parasites

Articles like Powers encourages reactions like this. Incitement to hatred.

D1stant

CrackisWhack wrote: »

" I'd like to know the prison population of travellers in Ireland.

So would I. Actually I think it would be a valuable piece of social research to figure out prison populations, earnings by group versus main population.

There are over 120,000 Polish people in Ireland, of which approx 25% are on social welfare. How much crime is committed by the Poles per capita?. Ditto for all other nationalities

I think many people would expect that travellers would have a very high prison population & social welfare claim per capita

No Pants

kingtiger wrote: »

since when are travellers a race?

When I see a couple of them belting it down the road on their wee horses and traps, I think they're a race.

suicide_circus

20Cent wrote: »

Articles like Powers encourages reactions like this. Incitement to hatred.

No. Travellers own lack of respect for and contribution to wider society ( while stll benefiting from it) is the problem.

Donnielighto

20Cent wrote: »

Articles like Powers encourages reactions like this. Incitement to hatred.

hatred against who?

Frank Lee Midere

D1stant wrote: »

So would I. Actually I think it would be a valuable piece of social research to figure out prison populations, earnings by group versus main population.

There are over 120,000 Polish people in Ireland, of which approx 25% are on social welfare. How much crime is committed by the Poles per capita?. Ditto for all other nationalities

I think many people would expect that travellers would have a very high prison population & social welfare claim per capita

That polish welfare figure sounds ludicrous. Source?

20Cent

Donnielighto wrote: »

hatred against who?

Travellers.

D1stant

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

That polish welfare figure sounds ludicrous. Source?

From December 2012

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/one-in-four-polish-workers-in-country-claiming-dole-26883566.html

Ghost Buster

20Cent wrote: »

Ethnic groups don't necessarily have different DNA. It's a group that shares a distinctive culture.

And 'culture' is used to defend the indefensible time and again.

Soft Falling Rain

arse..biscuits wrote: »

Here is a reply left on thejounal.ie, I couldn't agree more with it.



As long as we encourage a culture of victim hood, we will continue to raise victims, and so the cycle or underachievement continues.
One of the things that holds back open and reasonable discussion on matters regarding the travelling community is that they themselves (and other people also) are too quick to jump in with ‘discrimination’, ‘anti-traveller’ and ‘racism’ accusations.
So it is well near impossible to get any kind of dialogue going because if you express a negative opinion at all you are then in the firing line for accusations of discrimination.
I’ll give an example- there is traveller accommodation quite near my home (a medium sized town within 50 min’s drive of Dublin well known for having experience issues with travllers in the past ). At our residents meetings for the entire community the issue of rubbish being dumped on the road outside the travellers halting site was raised.
The response from the travellers representative about the issue was ‘youse just don’t like travellers’ quickly followed by absolute shut down and refusal to discuss the matter. People’s hands are tied in situations like that.
It’s impossible to make changes when one side will not acknowledge unacceptable behaviour but instead insists that they are being picked on for being a traveller. Surely it is the other way around. Travellers don’t like non travellers. That’s why they treat them with contempt and are backed up by the pseudo-intellectual-liberals who soft-voice their opinions on discrimination, exclusion and all that other nonsense.
They (the travellers) and only they are the architects of this discrimination. Why not try assimilation for a change? That would require doing a day’s constructive work and meeting one’s social obligations. This is not in the curriculum of these card carrying members of the victim culture.
It is my opinion that they should be referred to by nationality like everyone else and stop letting them use the tag traveller as an excuse to get away with things. Plus I don’t think traveller describes their lifestyle anymore (I went to primary & secondary school with travllers- none of them actually traveled in their caravans except for expensive family holidays to lourdes & Euro Disney in the summer when they’d use their bespoke vactation campervans instead) They are just accepted but there has come a time where they should be brought to book about how they live outside the system and yet still benefit from it.
By being lenient with travellers, they have now become above the law. Would anyone here be able to park a caravan anywhere and leave litter where they like? The bottom line is that Travellers do this.
I think Government policy should target the women mainly; education and housing and integration coupled with vigorous tax law enforcement and enforcement of law regarding schooling ((Most of the traveller kids I knew left school after their confirmation) is the only hope for positive change .Then their mortality rate and their infant mortality rate might start to fall but pussy footing around with their rights without responsibilities is doomed to fail.

"Travellers don't like non-travellers."

I'm sure that is the case for some but it's not true for a lot of people. Go down to your local boxing club and look not only at the amount young travellers there but also at how enthusiastically their parents interact with the coaches and other parents.

Travellers are not only not afraid to interact with wider society, they relish it once a shared interest is involved.

But some people just like to ignore that reality and prefer to bang on about travellers being unreasonable and anti-social towards non-travellers.

D1stant

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

"

But some people just like to ignore that reality and prefer to bang on about travellers being unreasonable and anti-social towards non-travellers.

What reality?

Boombastic

most of these don't travel. How are they travellers, Is to travel not a fundamental requirement of being a traveller?


where's my free house and halting site? I think the government is being racist against me and my kind, will pavee point represent me?



If pp and gov are serious about tackling the issues with this group of people, how many prosecutions has there been for non attendence at school?





excuses

steveone

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

"Travellers don't like non-travellers."

I'm sure that is the case for some but it's not true for a lot of people. Go down to your local boxing club and look not only at the amount young travellers there but also at how enthusiastically their parents interact with the coaches and other parents.

Travellers are not only not afraid to interact with wider society, they relish it once a shared interest is involved.

But some people just like to ignore that reality and prefer to bang on about travellers being unreasonable and anti-social towards non-travellers.

Good point about interaction but traveller business is traveller business and it wouldnt take long for the cultural difference term to appear if an outsider got involved